iVOD / 170677
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蘇清泉 @
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:11,000 | 好 謝謝 謝謝主席 |
| 00:00:11,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 我們請 講一下醫生 讓部長休息一下 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:19,000 | 部長要休息一下 |
| 00:00:19,000 | 00:00:21,000 | 來 我們國務院院長 |
| 00:00:21,000 | 00:00:23,000 | 好 請司徒院長 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:35,000 | 我們看立法院的預算中心幫你們整理的 |
| 00:00:35,000 | 00:00:39,000 | 對於你們國務院有很多意見 |
| 00:00:39,000 | 00:00:41,000 | 我一個一個給你問 |
| 00:00:41,000 | 00:00:47,000 | 第一個 國務院的定位重疊 |
| 00:00:47,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 技術轉移 授權 收入 績效 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 有餘力 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 第二個 研究資源分配跟利益衝突 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 緩慢的機制 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 第三個 國務院政策智庫 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 跟急慢性傳染病防治的實質影響力 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:17,000 | 來 給你講 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 好 謝謝 謝謝委員 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 那我想國務院從民國85年圓月成立到現在 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 今年剛好滿30年 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 那他的任務目標其實非常清楚 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 就是怎麼樣來增進國人的健康跟福祉 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 那我們有三個重要的目標 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 第一個目標是針對國人重要的疾病 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:45,000 | 我們來做深入長期而且系統性的分析 |
| 00:01:45,000 | 00:01:47,000 | 來找出防治的辦法 |
| 00:01:47,000 | 00:01:49,000 | 這是我們第一個目標 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 第二個目標是用實證科學基礎 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 來提供政府在醫藥衛生跟公共衛生 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 施政政策的一個參考的依據 |
| 00:02:00,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 那第三個目標才是我們真正對國內的生技產業的對接跟推廣 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 所以從這三大目標來看 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 第一個目標跟第二個目標 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 原則上它跟產業的發展 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 不是賺錢為目的 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 所以先跟委員報告 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 我們所有的預算裡面 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 前面的第一個目標跟第二個目標 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 是以保護國人的健康為主 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:28,000 | 那跟委員舉幾個重要的例子 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 我們在20幾年前 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:34,000 | 國人的這個抗生素濫用的這個情況 |
| 00:02:34,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 是國務院透過系統性長期的追蹤跟分析 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 找出他的分子流病的這整個機制 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 然後制定抗生素使用的一個機制 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 每一年可以幫國家省10到12億 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:51,000 | 所以我們即使沒有賺錢 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 但是幫國人的健康把關 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 你們可能要把近五年 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 研究的預算對比授權收入效益的比 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 那一些不符合效益的計畫 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 不符合效益的話 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 如何退場的機制 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 是 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 不可或是 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 然後再來就是利益衝突的申報流程 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 企業顧問跟持股勾擊防患 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 經費集中過度集中專案等等 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 你有另外一個說明沒有 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 是 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 謝謝委員的這個指導 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:35,000 | 那我想國務院的針對我們所謂的整合性的院外計畫 |
| 00:03:35,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 每一年的額度大概是2億4千萬左右 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 那這2億4千萬是完全透過公平公開的方式 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 針對全台灣所有的大學跟研究機構的研究人員可以來申請 |
| 00:03:49,000 | 00:03:52,000 | 那整個過程是非常公開透明 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 那他審查的機制 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 為了避免國內的這一些 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 尤其這些比較研究型的大學 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 他掌握的這個研發能量比較強 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 所以我們的審查委員 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 每一年會聘請超過70個審查委員 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 而且70%是由國外來聘請 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 就是為了避免在審查的過程裡面 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 有這種所謂的不同的機構之間的這些可能的衝突 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 你把那些效益的報告給我好不好 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:31,000 | 因為這個是非常用心的人提供的 |
| 00:04:31,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 所以我要好好的來研究 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 那研究人員若兼任私人申請企業的顧問 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 或在私人的企業有相關的股權 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 國衛院如何進行防範 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 是 我們院裡面其實在15年前就制定了 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 我們院裡面的這個利益衝突相關的回避的辦法 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 跟他的這個 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 有都有在集合嗎 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 有 我們第一次會做集合 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 現在如果發生這種事情是很嚴重喔 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 是 |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 那我們每一位的研究人員 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 如果要擔任真的是外面業界的這個科學顧問 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 他一定要呈報院裡面 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 那我們會有一個專案小組來做客觀跟公平的關係 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 那我們國家衛生政策的智庫定位 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 跟重大防疫研發落地轉化效率怎麼樣 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:27,000 | 好 跟委員報告 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 我就拿這個 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 我們在1998年這個長病毒在台灣大流行的這個案子 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 那政府決定要國人 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 我們自己國家來製造這長病毒70疫情的疫苗 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 那這個一開始也是由國衛院的這個荷曼的合院士 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 分離出來長病毒的那個致病的致死率最高的那個病毒株 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 然後初步是由當初的衛生署的這個疾病管制局 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 做了初步的這個疫苗開發的工作 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 那接下來就是由國衛院接棒 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 整個在PITGMP的產線 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 做完所有的製程的開發 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:11,000 | 甚至我們了解到國內的業界 |
| 00:06:11,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 沒有後續做這些動物攻毒實驗 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 因為他需要很多基因改造的老鼠來做測試 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 我也很關心你們在做疫苗 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 那你們做出來的量也不是沒辦法跟商業沒辦法 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 所以這點可能你也要主委一下 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 好 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 那你請回 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 行政院食安辦公室許主任 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:39,000 | 許主任 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 部長休息了 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 我還要叫他 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 好 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 來 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 今天早上講有啦 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 講那個榮耀講了很多 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 我請問你 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 那個分普尼上次在講分普尼 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 這個算分普林 |
| 00:06:59,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 部長我來拜託 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 你們這個翻譯要找那個靠地區的 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 不然找到中文系的來搭配 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 都黑白翻翻到 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:11,000 | 學研究都倒不起來 |
| 00:07:11,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 亂亂一通差太多了 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 分普尼就是在雞蛋 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:19,000 | 雞舍齒頸 |
| 00:07:19,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 一直在斷斷的就怕有傳染病 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:25,000 | 所以那些東西去汙染到雞蛋 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 所以雞蛋出問題是這樣來的 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 這件在講的是在講分普林 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 非proprasthrin |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 這這這 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 那這一次的出問題是我們從0.5ppm |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 直接調到3.0 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 是 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 那在 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:48,000 | Cortex |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | Cortex |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:53,000 | 歐洲的法典委員會是2 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 日本也是2 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:57,000 | 2.0ppm |
| 00:07:57,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 那一遍是2 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 那韓國就3 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 那我們這次從0.5一下調到3 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 大家都覺得是受美國的壓力 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 是不是這樣 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 應該沒有這樣 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 據我所知道食藥署 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:17,000 | 韓國看起來像美國低頭 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 美國是5啊那你乾脆調到5好了啊 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 不是更更更貼切 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 有沒有這回事 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 沒有應該是 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 據我所知道食藥署都是經過科學評估之後 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 然後採取然後經過相關委員討論之後 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 才會定然後他會全盤考慮 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:39,000 | 因為不是只有蘋果這一個項目 |
| 00:08:39,000 | 00:08:41,000 | 可能還有其他的 |
| 00:08:41,000 | 00:08:45,000 | 作物全部要納進來看他總共的暴露量 |
| 00:08:45,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 蝴蝶啦蔬菜啦什麼都有嘛 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 都要看得到 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 美國過來草莓啦 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 來也有啦 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 澎哥也有 |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:57,000 | 像櫻桃就比較下修這樣子 |
| 00:08:57,000 | 00:09:00,000 | 那你草莓是1點多少 |
| 00:09:00,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 2.0 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 2吧 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 2.0 |
| 00:09:05,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 草莓是2嘛 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 草莓是2對 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 那你為什麼蘋果要用3 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 你怎麼說 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 你是怎麼做你去偷夢 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 跟委員這邊報告 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:19,000 | 因為每個我們會進入他農業事件 |
| 00:09:19,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 叫GAP裡面的農場 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:23,000 | 26場面有符合GAP的 |
| 00:09:23,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 叫Good Agricultural Practices的數據裡面可信可用的 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 才能夠進入我們的OECD的計算公式 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 套用我們國內的以實的設施量 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 去計算完之後 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 我們申請他們是申請 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 我們覺得看完之後的數據 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 其實是在3 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 所以才會定在3 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 從早上聽到現在都說專家專家專家 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 歐洲法典委員會就說2.0 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 你就結局你就變3.0 |
| 00:09:51,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 大家覺得很虛聞嗎 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 我也覺得很虛聞 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:09:57,000 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:09:57,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 有2.0也有3.0 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 因為這是非常老的藥 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 大概是民國60幾年台灣就已經核了 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 那是農藥 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 對非常老的農藥 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 所以很早很早就核完之後 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 那我們在88年已經定在梨果類 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:19,000 | 因為梨果類其實範圍很寬很廣 |
| 00:10:19,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 對於個別的以實的水果裡面 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 其實為了更精準的去對每個水果裡面對應出來的 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:28,000 | 所以才會在後續的提出申請之下 |
| 00:10:28,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 經過評估調整出來的結果 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:31,000 | 大概簡單說 |
| 00:10:31,000 | 00:10:33,000 | 所以你現在梨果類改成3 |
| 00:10:33,000 | 00:10:38,000 | 各項裡面蘋果改成是3 |
| 00:10:38,000 | 00:10:40,000 | 舉個例子我們這邊說明 |
| 00:10:40,000 | 00:10:41,000 | 蘋果是3 |
| 00:10:41,000 | 00:10:44,000 | 那桃子是1.4 |
| 00:10:44,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 油桃是1.4 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 葡萄柚是0.9 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:48,000 | 柳橙是2.0 |
| 00:10:48,000 | 00:10:49,000 | 所以每個都有算 |
| 00:10:49,000 | 00:10:51,000 | 對於櫻桃本來是定在5的 |
| 00:10:51,000 | 00:10:54,000 | 我們重新去計算送上來的時候 |
| 00:10:54,000 | 00:10:56,000 | 算起來應該是可以更嚴格的 |
| 00:10:56,000 | 00:10:58,000 | 我們就把它調下來變成3 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 所以烏也有調成3 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:02,000 | 並不是所有東西都是上調的 |
| 00:11:02,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 不是所有的放寬 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:05,000 | 對並不是 |
| 00:11:05,000 | 00:11:07,000 | 櫻桃就是更嚴格 |
| 00:11:07,000 | 00:11:09,000 | 那我們也收到一些 |
| 00:11:09,000 | 00:11:11,000 | 櫻桃沒有下皮啊 |
| 00:11:11,000 | 00:11:13,000 | 你澎哥還有在下皮 |
| 00:11:13,000 | 00:11:15,000 | 萊亞還有在下皮 |
| 00:11:15,000 | 00:11:17,000 | 所以你的櫻桃、草莓 |
| 00:11:17,000 | 00:11:19,000 | 那是可怕你如果 |
| 00:11:19,000 | 00:11:20,000 | 有殘影的榮耀 |
| 00:11:20,000 | 00:11:23,000 | 那是一架洗一洗就吃下去了 |
| 00:11:23,000 | 00:11:25,000 | 那個蘋果其實我們 |
| 00:11:25,000 | 00:11:28,000 | 去測的時候也是整顆在測的 |
| 00:11:28,000 | 00:11:30,000 | 不是說把它削皮 |
| 00:11:30,000 | 00:11:31,000 | 如果真的國人有擔心 |
| 00:11:31,000 | 00:11:34,000 | 沒有啦我說我們吃的習慣 |
| 00:11:34,000 | 00:11:35,000 | 我要說的是 |
| 00:11:35,000 | 00:11:37,000 | 你只聽美國人說 |
| 00:11:37,000 | 00:11:38,000 | 美國人不怕死的 |
| 00:11:38,000 | 00:11:39,000 | 每天放寬 |
| 00:11:39,000 | 00:11:41,000 | 每天都黑白吃 |
| 00:11:41,000 | 00:11:43,000 | 國人報告我吃蘋果 |
| 00:11:43,000 | 00:11:45,000 | 也是都吃皮的 |
| 00:11:45,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 每天一顆蘋果今天忘了帶來 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:51,000 | 沒有啦 |
| 00:11:51,000 | 00:11:54,000 | 嚴格的evaluation一下 |
| 00:11:54,000 | 00:11:59,000 | 不要讓國人、百姓會擔憂 |
| 00:11:59,000 | 00:12:00,000 | 當然是會擔憂啊 |
| 00:12:00,000 | 00:12:02,000 | 你一下子從那麼低 |
| 00:12:02,000 | 00:12:04,000 | 0.5一下跳到3.0 |
| 00:12:04,000 | 00:12:05,000 | 我第一個問題 |
| 00:12:05,000 | 00:12:08,000 | 你會不會直接調5.0跟美國切齊 |
| 00:12:08,000 | 00:12:10,000 | 那不是更好 |
| 00:12:10,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 對美國有交代 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 跟委員特別報告一下 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:16,000 | 因為這個訂的標準 |
| 00:12:16,000 | 00:12:18,000 | 是我們的管制標準 |
| 00:12:18,000 | 00:12:19,000 | 其實在田間試驗 |
| 00:12:19,000 | 00:12:21,000 | 我們邊境裡面看到的確 |
| 00:12:21,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 是一直都是合格的 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:23,000 | 相對是更低的 |
| 00:12:23,000 | 00:12:24,000 | 所以我們的標準 |
| 00:12:24,000 | 00:12:28,000 | 並不會改變進來台灣的狀態 |
| 00:12:28,000 | 00:12:30,000 | 我想這部分也特別跟委員部 |
| 00:12:30,000 | 00:12:31,000 | 進一步的報告 |
| 00:12:31,000 | 00:12:32,000 | 好加強 |
| 00:12:32,000 | 00:12:33,000 | 好謝謝 |
| 00:12:36,000 | 00:12:37,000 | 謝謝蘇星全委的資訊 |