iVOD / 170634
本逐字稿內容由 AI 自動生成，可能包含錯誤、遺漏或誤譯之處。請使用者務必與原始影片音訊內容交叉比對，以確保資訊正確性。另可參考立法院日後釋出的正式公報以取得最終權威版本。
馬文君 @ 第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:04,000 | 謝謝主席 麻煩請林部長 |
| 00:00:10,000 | 00:00:12,000 | 部長好 |
| 00:00:12,000 | 00:00:17,000 | 部長我們今天其實可能大家會關注的議題也蠻多的 |
| 00:00:17,000 | 00:00:21,000 | 因為外交其實我們的處境並不是那麼容易 |
| 00:00:21,000 | 00:00:25,000 | 不過我們更希望我們是有更強的一個態度 |
| 00:00:25,000 | 00:00:29,000 | 因為基本上我相信國人還有我們所有 |
| 00:00:29,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 不管是朝野的委員 |
| 00:00:31,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 大家一定都會支持我們所有的外交工作 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 可是當我們有不夠好的地方 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 或者我們還有可以有更精進的作為 |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:44,000 | 或者大家應該要怎麼樣共同一致對外的時候 |
| 00:00:44,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 我們還是應該要提出一些方向策略 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 我們看近期發生的一些事情 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 比如說像上週巴布亞紐幾內亞的外長 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 他是以臉書的方式 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 然後用竹克令的這樣的一個方法來宣布 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 外交部駐巴紐的台北經濟辦事處關閉 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 所以他直接說我們這個實體機構將不再獲得承認 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 也沒有設立的必要 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 這對我們來說 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 雖然外交部有發表聲明 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 那我們自己向聲明 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 其實我們也開了一個 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 部長有對媒體說我們有召開緊急應變的會議 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 我想要請教部長 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 我們這一場應變會議是誰主持的 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 有哪些單位參加 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 會中有哪些決議嗎 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 當然國安會都有會整個部會的意見 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 所以是國安會召開 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 外交部做細部 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 因為最主要是這個還是以外交事務為主 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 不過牽涉地緣政治 |
| 00:01:52,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 這個相當的複雜 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:56,000 | 所以就是國安會召開 |
| 00:01:56,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 然後我們有相關的部會 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 外交部以外還有其他單位嗎 |
| 00:02:00,000 | 00:02:02,000 | 因為這涉及到經濟部 |
| 00:02:02,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 因為有一些能源的採購 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 商業的 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 那我們有提到 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:11,000 | 最近部長有提到說 |
| 00:02:11,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 針對巴紐的天然氣採購 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 會採取因應的作為 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 所以我們因應作為在會中 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 已經有做出結論了嗎 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 有一些原則性的結論 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 比如說我們當然有長約 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 也有現貨 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 當然現在的狀況 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:31,000 | 怎麼去做短中長期的應對 |
| 00:02:31,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 因為這也需要跟其他利害關係的國家 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:37,000 | 來協商 |
| 00:02:37,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 那也涉及到我們人員的配比 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 所以目前其實他還沒有一個正式的結論嗎 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 我們是放出這個訊號 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 就是說有一些現貨 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 其實是馬上可以處理的 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:51,000 | 因為這是在這個市場上 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 因為我們其實採購 |
| 00:02:53,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 其實除了長約以外 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 也有相當大比例是現貨市場 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 那因為這也涉及到第三國 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 有參與 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 那也涉及到我們約的時間長短 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 那我們放出這個訊息是說 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 其實他們 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 巴紐裡面其實很多人知道 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:11,000 | 不是像他們外交部長 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:13,000 | 我們沒有什麼經貿往來 |
| 00:03:13,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 我就舉這個例子就有 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 那周邊國家也都很關切 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 因為這會涉及到 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 就是地緣政治上的複雜變化 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:23,000 | 這個可能牽涉到 |
| 00:03:23,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 因為其實我們台灣每年 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 像巴紐進口120萬噸的天然氣 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 不只120萬噸 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 那是長約 |
| 00:03:31,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 我們還有現貨市場 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:35,000 | 那個馬上就可以處理 |
| 00:03:35,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 表示非常多 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 我的意思是說對巴紐的部分 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 因為如果說像 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 像這個該果產量 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 近三分之一其實是非常高的 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 這個又有長約 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 那如果我們停的話 |
| 00:03:49,000 | 00:03:51,000 | 因為他為什麼不太在乎 |
| 00:03:51,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 第一是簽長約 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:55,000 | 第二其實 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 這個不像其他的農產品 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 我們可能可以有很多的一個來源 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 可是天然氣 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 對我們來說非常重要 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 因為現在發電我們自己 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 就在天然氣的部分占比 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 高達50%以上 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:11,000 | 所以對我們來說也是 |
| 00:04:11,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 被掐住咽喉 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 所以其實他很清楚 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:17,000 | 這個面向上面我們到底 |
| 00:04:17,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 會採取什麼樣的措施 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 所以他不是太緊張 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 或者太擔心的原因我想這個 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 也是其中一個因素 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:27,000 | 因為如果我們簽了長約我們解約 |
| 00:04:27,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 那我們要賠償多少 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:31,000 | 然後我們的其他來源 |
| 00:04:31,000 | 00:04:33,000 | 會是怎麼樣 |
| 00:04:33,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 如果你在我們有需求 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 要其他來源的時候 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 是不是又要買很貴 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 這個對我們來說可能也都是一個考量 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 所以我想 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 這個部分在八牛來說 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 他們並不會太擔心的原因也是這樣 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 可是對我們來說 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 我們沒有其他的籌碼了嗎 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 這是第一點第二個還有 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 就是像對於 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 八牛他們這個地理 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 位置因為我們的來源 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 天然氣的來源現在 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 包括美伊戰爭其實也會造成 |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 很多國際在能源上面 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 也會造成一些相關的衝擊 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 那八牛從地理 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 位置來看在 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:13,000 | 台灣的能源安全跟供應 |
| 00:05:13,000 | 00:05:15,000 | 多元化的這個部分其實 |
| 00:05:15,000 | 00:05:17,000 | 他扮演也是 |
| 00:05:17,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 重要的角色因為他來自 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 赤道以南可以避開 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 數個主要海上咽喉的 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 藥道包括現在 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:27,000 | 河姆之海峽還有馬六甲 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 海峽或者是南海 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 他是台灣一條來自 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 北京太平洋更具韌性的 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 這個能源走廊 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 所以對我們來說反而 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 如果斷然把這一個 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:41,000 | 來源把他排除 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:43,000 | 可能對我們也是會造成 |
| 00:05:43,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 一些衝擊所以這個我們也不得 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 不考量那我相信他 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 也會有有所 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 他們應該也有掌握啦 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 所以敢這樣子那對我們來說 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 還有其他的一些武器籌碼嗎 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:05:59,000 | 我們當然那邊也有一些跟他其他的 |
| 00:05:59,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 合作計畫在進行中 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 那其實我講 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 一點就是說去年 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 因為也是 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 就是美國的 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:11,000 | 副國務卿有到巴紐 |
| 00:06:11,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 這個其實就是在 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:15,000 | 阻止中共的 |
| 00:06:15,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 這個在這個地方的控制 |
| 00:06:17,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 澳洲也簽了安全協定 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 那也包括有上億 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 這個 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 這個澳幣的 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 援助其實大家都 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 知道說中共的擴張 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 他會變成前進的一個基地 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 的時候那台灣在那邊 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 都是一股正向的力量 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 所以我們其實是為什麼 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:39,000 | 我們說我們在交涉中 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 我們也告訴其實巴紐 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 只有這個部長啦因為他 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 他是被中共啊 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 很直接的給他利益因為他的 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:49,000 | 選區就在進入機場的那個地方 |
| 00:06:49,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 巴紐的他們 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 的做法不會只有一個部長就可以 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 決定所有的事情尤其像 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 很重要的事情如果說 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 像這樣子的一個商業 |
| 00:06:59,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 合作或者其他的會 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 會有什麼任何變動一個 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 部長就可以做這樣的決定那 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 我們的角色就更尷尬了 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 所以顯然他沒有把我們放在 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:11,000 | 眼裡一個部長就可以做這樣的決定 |
| 00:07:11,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 所以我想我們應該 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 是可以全般全般的 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 在做更深入的一個 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:19,000 | 檢討跟因應的措施可是 |
| 00:07:19,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 他如果一個人決定 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 這對我們來說傷害更大所以 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:25,000 | 我想應該是不需要從 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:27,000 | 這樣的角度去做延伸 |
| 00:07:27,000 | 00:07:29,000 | 因為他很多 |
| 00:07:29,000 | 00:07:31,000 | 包括國外的媒體都已經披露了 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 巴紐這樣子是兩面手法 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 因為他外交安全他要靠 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 澳洲他最近跟他們 |
| 00:07:37,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 做了一些包括國防或者一些 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 相關的安全合作他也怕 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 引起中共中國他 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 可能有的疑慮 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:47,000 | 所以他因為 |
| 00:07:47,000 | 00:07:49,000 | 他經濟還是要靠中國所以 |
| 00:07:49,000 | 00:07:51,000 | 對我們來說他犧牲了我們 |
| 00:07:51,000 | 00:07:53,000 | 中華民國他把我們當 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 棋子可有可無 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:57,000 | 對我們來說這個可能是 |
| 00:07:57,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 比較大的傷害我們希望是朝 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 這個面向去做一個處置 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:03,000 | 跟討論我們另外還有 |
| 00:08:03,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 就是說我們要 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 像這個部分 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 他已經 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 如果說不承認我們的存在 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 我們的住處的存在 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:15,000 | 那對我們很多 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:17,000 | 像不管是 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 在商業上 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 來往比較多 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:23,000 | 他有很多的相關的文件 |
| 00:08:23,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 或者像他的公正 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 或者如果有爭議發生的時候我們 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:29,000 | 要怎麼樣確保 |
| 00:08:29,000 | 00:08:31,000 | 他的可能在 |
| 00:08:31,000 | 00:08:33,000 | 進行當中確保我們自己我方 |
| 00:08:33,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 的權益或者我們住外單位 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 人員的安全這會不會 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:39,000 | 受到保障這個可能才是我們 |
| 00:08:39,000 | 00:08:41,000 | 應該要去面對的那這個部分 |
| 00:08:41,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 我們目前有什麼樣的 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:45,000 | 一個做法嗎那人員的安全 |
| 00:08:45,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 或管束在 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 就是辦理的事項 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 我們是都有持續 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 在就是 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:55,000 | 檢視 |
| 00:08:55,000 | 00:08:57,000 | 可是因為現在他 |
| 00:08:57,000 | 00:08:59,000 | 就是說 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 這樣的一個片面的聲明 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 我們當然 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 也在交涉當中 |
| 00:09:05,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 因為實際上因為他是跟 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:09,000 | 印尼 |
| 00:09:09,000 | 00:09:11,000 | 所謂的 |
| 00:09:11,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 靠這個 |
| 00:09:13,000 | 00:09:15,000 | 找挖靠這一邊 |
| 00:09:15,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 是有一些 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:19,000 | 包括華人或台商 |
| 00:09:19,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 的往來所以這個 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:23,000 | 我們也是很密切注意 |
| 00:09:23,000 | 00:09:25,000 | 的後續的影響 |
| 00:09:25,000 | 00:09:27,000 | 部長因為時間的關係我用比較 |
| 00:09:27,000 | 00:09:29,000 | 快的速度我們也在 |
| 00:09:29,000 | 00:09:31,000 | 關切的這個部分因為 |
| 00:09:31,000 | 00:09:33,000 | 在7月17號 |
| 00:09:33,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 我們外交部也有發布 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:37,000 | 相關的一個新聞 |
| 00:09:37,000 | 00:09:39,000 | 就是說停止 |
| 00:09:39,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 柬埔寨他免簽 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 還有關紅專案的各項 |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:45,000 | 便利措施我們想要 |
| 00:09:45,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 知道的是因為2018年 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 8月我們就對柬埔寨 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 他納入這個免簽 |
| 00:09:51,000 | 00:09:53,000 | 跟關紅專案給他 |
| 00:09:53,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 很多的一些 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:57,000 | 可能優惠或者便利可是 |
| 00:09:57,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 我們在今天特別要 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:01,000 | 提出來的是一直 |
| 00:10:01,000 | 00:10:03,000 | 到現在因為我們覺得考量 |
| 00:10:03,000 | 00:10:05,000 | 的只有政治上的考量 |
| 00:10:05,000 | 00:10:07,000 | 因為2018年到現在 |
| 00:10:07,000 | 00:10:09,000 | 已經將近快十年的時間至少 |
| 00:10:09,000 | 00:10:11,000 | 九年了我們在這個 |
| 00:10:11,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 過程當中我們有很多 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:15,000 | 的年輕人被騙到 |
| 00:10:15,000 | 00:10:17,000 | 柬埔寨當時 |
| 00:10:17,000 | 00:10:19,000 | 也有很多人他們 |
| 00:10:19,000 | 00:10:21,000 | 對不管外交部也好對 |
| 00:10:21,000 | 00:10:23,000 | 我們政府也好都可以都提出 |
| 00:10:23,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 請求希望可以對他們 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 救援或者應該在這個過程 |
| 00:10:27,000 | 00:10:29,000 | 當中我們給了免簽 |
| 00:10:29,000 | 00:10:31,000 | 我們給了關紅專案可是在這 |
| 00:10:31,000 | 00:10:33,000 | 在這段期間我們有很多的 |
| 00:10:33,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 被騙去的年輕人其實 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:37,000 | 在那裡求救無門我們很多 |
| 00:10:37,000 | 00:10:39,000 | 是透過台商因為當時政府 |
| 00:10:39,000 | 00:10:41,000 | 都告訴我們我們跟他們有邦交 |
| 00:10:41,000 | 00:10:43,000 | 所以我們很難有什麼樣 |
| 00:10:43,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 積極的居救援的 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 一個行動或做法 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:49,000 | 在這個過程當中 |
| 00:10:49,000 | 00:10:51,000 | 我們這些手段都沒有用上 |
| 00:10:51,000 | 00:10:53,000 | 我們持續給他這個 |
| 00:10:53,000 | 00:10:55,000 | 關紅專案裡面的 |
| 00:10:55,000 | 00:10:57,000 | 一個優惠跟便利我們 |
| 00:10:57,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 也沒有停止他的免簽當 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:01,000 | 我們的很多年輕人其實 |
| 00:11:01,000 | 00:11:03,000 | 後來很多家屬去 |
| 00:11:03,000 | 00:11:05,000 | 那裡是去認屍的 |
| 00:11:05,000 | 00:11:07,000 | 有些到現在還沒有 |
| 00:11:07,000 | 00:11:09,000 | 沒有音訊都還全無 |
| 00:11:09,000 | 00:11:11,000 | 所以當他們被淋滅或者需要 |
| 00:11:11,000 | 00:11:13,000 | 救援的時候我們沒有用上這樣的 |
| 00:11:13,000 | 00:11:15,000 | 一個手段工具可是在 |
| 00:11:15,000 | 00:11:17,000 | 現在可能 |
| 00:11:17,000 | 00:11:19,000 | 政府在他 |
| 00:11:19,000 | 00:11:21,000 | 發表這樣子的一個政治性 |
| 00:11:21,000 | 00:11:23,000 | 的一個談話就是說 |
| 00:11:23,000 | 00:11:25,000 | 還是支持一中然後還支持 |
| 00:11:25,000 | 00:11:27,000 | 甚至支持中共武統 |
| 00:11:27,000 | 00:11:29,000 | 這當然我們不願意可是 |
| 00:11:29,000 | 00:11:31,000 | 就這個部分我們到目前 |
| 00:11:31,000 | 00:11:33,000 | 因為政治的因素我們才動用 |
| 00:11:33,000 | 00:11:35,000 | 這樣子關紅專案所以 |
| 00:11:35,000 | 00:11:37,000 | 包括泰國我們給泰國 |
| 00:11:37,000 | 00:11:39,000 | 也是免簽而且也是 |
| 00:11:39,000 | 00:11:41,000 | 片面的我們對他這麼多的優惠 |
| 00:11:41,000 | 00:11:43,000 | 他也是支持一中啊他也是 |
| 00:11:43,000 | 00:11:45,000 | 對外的存在泰國是雙向的 |
| 00:11:45,000 | 00:11:47,000 | 目前有雙向嗎所以就這個他 |
| 00:11:47,000 | 00:11:49,000 | 也是這樣子發布那我們 |
| 00:11:49,000 | 00:11:51,000 | 對他們有什麼樣的處置的作為 |
| 00:11:51,000 | 00:11:53,000 | 這個關紅專案我們希望 |
| 00:11:53,000 | 00:11:55,000 | 時間的關係外交部 |
| 00:11:55,000 | 00:11:57,000 | 希望可以就關紅專案 |
| 00:11:57,000 | 00:11:59,000 | 提出一些具體的一個 |
| 00:11:59,000 | 00:12:01,000 | 資料的一個做法跟 |
| 00:12:01,000 | 00:12:03,000 | 說明然後我們應該怎麼樣 |
| 00:12:03,000 | 00:12:05,000 | 不要只有政治因素我們才 |
| 00:12:05,000 | 00:12:07,000 | 做這樣子的一個處置 |
| 00:12:07,000 | 00:12:09,000 | 包括我們所有 |
| 00:12:09,000 | 00:12:11,000 | 國人人身安全包括我們 |
| 00:12:11,000 | 00:12:13,000 | 國人的權益包括有很多我們的 |
| 00:12:13,000 | 00:12:15,000 | 尊嚴我們應該適時的 |
| 00:12:15,000 | 00:12:17,000 | 去啟動這些 |
| 00:12:17,000 | 00:12:19,000 | 這個部分關紅專案再請 |
| 00:12:19,000 | 00:12:21,000 | 外交部提供那花一點點 |
| 00:12:21,000 | 00:12:23,000 | 時間就美國 |
| 00:12:23,000 | 00:12:25,000 | 針對三零一強迫勞動 |
| 00:12:25,000 | 00:12:27,000 | 的調查從七月七號到七月 |
| 00:12:27,000 | 00:12:29,000 | 九號那包括加拿大 |
| 00:12:29,000 | 00:12:31,000 | 韓國印度墨西哥就是 |
| 00:12:31,000 | 00:12:33,000 | 一些拉美國家秘魯巴西 |
| 00:12:33,000 | 00:12:35,000 | 等等其實這些他們 |
| 00:12:35,000 | 00:12:37,000 | 政府的一個代表 |
| 00:12:37,000 | 00:12:39,000 | 其實他們都對美國提出書面 |
| 00:12:39,000 | 00:12:41,000 | 的反駁也已經 |
| 00:12:41,000 | 00:12:43,000 | 陸續媒體都有報導出來 |
| 00:12:43,000 | 00:12:45,000 | 可是我們卻沒有看到民進黨 |
| 00:12:45,000 | 00:12:47,000 | 政府怎麼樣堅守自己 |
| 00:12:47,000 | 00:12:49,000 | 對人權的理念如何向 |
| 00:12:49,000 | 00:12:51,000 | 美國在國際上捍衛我們 |
| 00:12:51,000 | 00:12:53,000 | 自己的民生到現在我們沒有看到 |
| 00:12:53,000 | 00:12:55,000 | 因為這些國家我們付出非常 |
| 00:12:55,000 | 00:12:57,000 | 多像我們在 |
| 00:12:57,000 | 00:12:59,000 | 談判裡面我們一直認為 |
| 00:12:59,000 | 00:13:01,000 | 我們被犧牲的非常多我們付出 |
| 00:13:01,000 | 00:13:03,000 | 非常多我們的代價其實 |
| 00:13:03,000 | 00:13:05,000 | 是不符合我們比例的 |
| 00:13:05,000 | 00:13:07,000 | 可是就已經三零一 |
| 00:13:07,000 | 00:13:09,000 | 強迫勞動的這個調查 |
| 00:13:09,000 | 00:13:11,000 | 我們也甚至沒有 |
| 00:13:11,000 | 00:13:13,000 | 提出書面的反駁 |
| 00:13:13,000 | 00:13:15,000 | 有沒有 |
| 00:13:15,000 | 00:13:17,000 | 有啦我想這在交涉中 |
| 00:13:17,000 | 00:13:19,000 | 不是不是我剛剛講的很清楚 |
| 00:13:19,000 | 00:13:21,000 | 報告金馬委員辦公室 |
| 00:13:21,000 | 00:13:23,000 | 我講的很清楚是書面 |
| 00:13:23,000 | 00:13:25,000 | 具體的一個抗議 |
| 00:13:25,000 | 00:13:27,000 | 跟反駁我們有做嗎 |
| 00:13:27,000 | 00:13:29,000 | 沒有因為他就個案 |
| 00:13:29,000 | 00:13:31,000 | 或是有一些 |
| 00:13:31,000 | 00:13:33,000 | 有關於強迫勞動 |
| 00:13:33,000 | 00:13:35,000 | 當然是一個談判的策略 |
| 00:13:35,000 | 00:13:37,000 | 那不是談判 |
| 00:13:37,000 | 00:13:39,000 | 有的個案確實也被 |
| 00:13:39,000 | 00:13:41,000 | 聽完我的問題 |
| 00:13:41,000 | 00:13:43,000 | 我剛剛講了 |
| 00:13:43,000 | 00:13:45,000 | 因為ART他自己本身 |
| 00:13:45,000 | 00:13:47,000 | 在美國他已經是被判定違法 |
| 00:13:47,000 | 00:13:49,000 | 美國用三零一 |
| 00:13:49,000 | 00:13:51,000 | 來做這個 |
| 00:13:51,000 | 00:13:53,000 | 調查其他國家已經 |
| 00:13:53,000 | 00:13:55,000 | 提出書面的這些反駁 |
| 00:13:55,000 | 00:13:57,000 | 提書面反駁不需要 |
| 00:13:57,000 | 00:13:59,000 | 花什麼錢包括針對 |
| 00:13:59,000 | 00:14:01,000 | 這個調查其實至少 |
| 00:14:01,000 | 00:14:03,000 | 已經收到一千五百份來自於 |
| 00:14:03,000 | 00:14:05,000 | 世界各國還有很多商業 |
| 00:14:05,000 | 00:14:07,000 | 代表已經提出書面反駁 |
| 00:14:07,000 | 00:14:09,000 | 可是我們中華民國還沒有 |
| 00:14:09,000 | 00:14:11,000 | 當我們連這個都沒有提 |
| 00:14:11,000 | 00:14:13,000 | 出來的時候有很多 |
| 00:14:13,000 | 00:14:15,000 | 執政黨的委員還在說 |
| 00:14:15,000 | 00:14:17,000 | 他需要很多的 |
| 00:14:17,000 | 00:14:19,000 | 費用或什麼你 |
| 00:14:19,000 | 00:14:21,000 | 這個部分在應該可以 |
| 00:14:21,000 | 00:14:23,000 | 居理力爭不需要花什麼經費 |
| 00:14:23,000 | 00:14:25,000 | 我們都沒有做到沒有理由 |
| 00:14:25,000 | 00:14:27,000 | 說我們花很多的沒宣費 |
| 00:14:27,000 | 00:14:29,000 | 你可以去改變什麼樣 |
| 00:14:29,000 | 00:14:31,000 | 的一個國際現實跟狀況 |
| 00:14:31,000 | 00:14:33,000 | 我們現在要說的包括 |
| 00:14:33,000 | 00:14:35,000 | 我們出境去 |
| 00:14:35,000 | 00:14:37,000 | 日本過境的時候 |
| 00:14:37,000 | 00:14:39,000 | 包括我們的總統要去我們的 |
| 00:14:39,000 | 00:14:41,000 | 邦交國還需要 |
| 00:14:41,000 | 00:14:43,000 | 搭乘其他國家的 |
| 00:14:43,000 | 00:14:45,000 | 飛機的時候我們的外交處境 |
| 00:14:45,000 | 00:14:47,000 | 越來越困難這個部分 |
| 00:14:47,000 | 00:14:49,000 | 我們跟外交部站在一起 |
| 00:14:49,000 | 00:14:51,000 | 可是當你要遣的時候 |
| 00:14:51,000 | 00:14:53,000 | 不是只要錢 |
| 00:14:53,000 | 00:14:55,000 | 我們應該要怎麼樣做 |
| 00:14:55,000 | 00:14:57,000 | 讓國人可以看到讓國人 |
| 00:14:57,000 | 00:14:59,000 | 有信心如果你這些都有 |
| 00:14:59,000 | 00:15:01,000 | 做到我相信大家會給予 |
| 00:15:01,000 | 00:15:03,000 | 更多人支持的力量而不是只要 |
| 00:15:03,000 | 00:15:05,000 | 錢然後一直說 |
| 00:15:05,000 | 00:15:07,000 | 這個沒宣費用多重要 |
| 00:15:07,000 | 00:15:09,000 | 他過去也那麼多啊我們的外交 |
| 00:15:09,000 | 00:15:11,000 | 預算沒有少過外交預算是 |
| 00:15:11,000 | 00:15:13,000 | 每年一直在增加所以 |
| 00:15:13,000 | 00:15:15,000 | 這個部分我們還是希望外交部 |
| 00:15:15,000 | 00:15:17,000 | 可以儘速的可以提出 |
| 00:15:17,000 | 00:15:19,000 | 一些書面的指令 |
| 00:15:19,000 | 00:15:21,000 | 讓美國知道讓世界各國知道 |
| 00:15:21,000 | 00:15:23,000 | 好不好 |
| 00:15:23,000 | 00:15:25,000 | 包括實驗期貿談判辦公室 |
| 00:15:25,000 | 00:15:27,000 | 還有勞動部 |
| 00:15:27,000 | 00:15:29,000 | 都有在談判 |
| 00:15:29,000 | 00:15:31,000 | 有表達我們的立場 |
| 00:15:31,000 | 00:15:33,000 | 我們做個案我們就 |
| 00:15:33,000 | 00:15:35,000 | 就是要看他的一個具體 |
| 00:15:35,000 | 00:15:37,000 | 比如說上次傑安特的案子 |
| 00:15:37,000 | 00:15:39,000 | 那如果說通案現在因為他做一個 |
| 00:15:39,000 | 00:15:41,000 | 談判策略他是全面性的 |
| 00:15:41,000 | 00:15:43,000 | 對於所謂的強迫勞動 |
| 00:15:43,000 | 00:15:45,000 | 在進行檢討 |
| 00:15:45,000 | 00:15:47,000 | 我們的立場很清楚 |
| 00:15:47,000 | 00:15:49,000 | 當然就是我們都符合我們認為 |
| 00:15:49,000 | 00:15:51,000 | 勞動法令相關的規定 |
| 00:15:51,000 | 00:15:53,000 | 他必須舉證 |
| 00:15:53,000 | 00:15:55,000 | 台灣相對來表現都是很好的 |
| 00:15:55,000 | 00:15:57,000 | 這個部分不是在 |
| 00:15:57,000 | 00:15:59,000 | 我們的國會上面說 |
| 00:15:59,000 | 00:16:01,000 | 我們應該要提出 |
| 00:16:01,000 | 00:16:03,000 | 書面資料因為像加拿大 |
| 00:16:03,000 | 00:16:05,000 | 像韓國像印度 |
| 00:16:05,000 | 00:16:07,000 | 像墨西哥像其他國家 |
| 00:16:07,000 | 00:16:09,000 | 他們提出書面 |
| 00:16:09,000 | 00:16:11,000 | 反駁的時候媒體 |
| 00:16:11,000 | 00:16:13,000 | 就把它刮出來了 |
| 00:16:13,000 | 00:16:15,000 | 而且是世界性的都有看到 |
| 00:16:15,000 | 00:16:17,000 | 所以我們要的是 |
| 00:16:17,000 | 00:16:19,000 | 我們有沒有提出 |
| 00:16:19,000 | 00:16:21,000 | 這樣子的一個書面反駁 |
| 00:16:21,000 | 00:16:23,000 | 如果有提供給我們委員會 |
| 00:16:23,000 | 00:16:25,000 | 我們會反應 |
| 00:16:25,000 | 00:16:27,000 | 因為這個不來自外交部 |
| 00:16:27,000 | 00:16:29,000 | 把這個書面資料我們有提出的提供給委員會 |
| 00:16:29,000 | 00:16:31,000 | 另外我們還是希望 |
| 00:16:31,000 | 00:16:33,000 | 我們所有的都可以據理力爭 |
| 00:16:33,000 | 00:16:35,000 | 當大家其他國家對我們 |
| 00:16:35,000 | 00:16:37,000 | 不友善或者 |
| 00:16:37,000 | 00:16:39,000 | 我們包括我們一直認為說 |
| 00:16:39,000 | 00:16:41,000 | 都是我們的理念相近的國家 |
| 00:16:41,000 | 00:16:43,000 | 當沒有這樣對待我們的時候 |
| 00:16:43,000 | 00:16:45,000 | 我們應該要怎麼樣的因應 |
| 00:16:45,000 | 00:16:47,000 | 我們應該要很實際的 |
| 00:16:47,000 | 00:16:49,000 | 面對現在的國際現實 |
| 00:16:49,000 | 00:16:51,000 | 因為各個國家都只考量到 |
| 00:16:51,000 | 00:16:53,000 | 他們自己的自身國家的利益 |
| 00:16:53,000 | 00:16:55,000 | 所以這個部分我們沒有辦法 |
| 00:16:55,000 | 00:16:57,000 | 去扭轉或改變 |
| 00:16:57,000 | 00:16:59,000 | 我們要怎麼樣也去正視 |
| 00:16:59,000 | 00:17:01,000 | 國際的現實跟利益 |
| 00:17:01,000 | 00:17:03,000 | 我想這個也是我們應該要去面對的 |
| 00:17:03,000 | 00:17:05,000 | 好我們會據理力爭 |
| 00:17:05,000 | 00:17:07,000 | 謝謝 |