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邱志偉 @ 第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:04,500 | 有請邱昭偉的質詢 |
| 00:00:10,500 | 00:00:12,800 | 謝主席是不是請介入國務部長 |
| 00:00:12,800 | 00:00:14,300 | 然後能源署吳署長 |
| 00:00:14,300 | 00:00:15,500 | 請國務部長吳署長 |
| 00:00:15,500 | 00:00:16,000 | 謝謝 |
| 00:00:19,000 | 00:00:21,500 | 能源管理法 邱法委好 |
| 00:00:21,500 | 00:00:23,500 | 部長跟署長 |
| 00:00:23,500 | 00:00:27,000 | 能源管理法幾個本席條文跟你討論一下 |
| 00:00:27,000 | 00:00:29,000 | 第七條的部分 |
| 00:00:29,500 | 00:00:32,500 | 我的著重點跟原版著重點不太一樣 |
| 00:00:32,500 | 00:00:35,500 | 你們把相關的折舊把它刪除掉 |
| 00:00:35,500 | 00:00:41,500 | 那我是要求你們在儲存安全存量有更明確的規範 |
| 00:00:41,500 | 00:00:43,500 | 安全儲量有更明確的規範 |
| 00:00:43,500 | 00:00:48,500 | 比方說你的數量基準設備類型安全存量替代方式 |
| 00:00:48,500 | 00:00:52,500 | 這個是不是可以有一個中央組織機關 |
| 00:00:52,500 | 00:00:54,000 | 就是能源署經濟部 |
| 00:00:54,500 | 00:01:00,000 | 制定一個更明確的儲存設備跟儲存安全能量的相關的做法 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:01,500 | 這個可行嗎 |
| 00:01:01,500 | 00:01:03,000 | 是 人家說明一下 |
| 00:01:03,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 吳署長 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:05,500 | 跟我們報告一下 |
| 00:01:05,500 | 00:01:09,500 | 這個目前就是在執法裡面 |
| 00:01:09,500 | 00:01:12,500 | 本來就有規定像這些適用對象還有它的 |
| 00:01:12,500 | 00:01:14,000 | 你現在執法就有嗎 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 有 就是我們有一個叫做 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:20,500 | 能源供應事業集能用戶應打辦理能源管理法相關事項之 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 能源供應數量使用基準及儲存安全存量的規定 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:27,500 | 所以你已經在執法上有相關規定 |
| 00:01:27,500 | 00:01:29,000 | 對 有類似的規定 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:31,000 | 類似 有沒有更明確的 |
| 00:01:31,000 | 00:01:32,500 | 比方說適用的對象等等 |
| 00:01:32,500 | 00:01:33,000 | 有 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 基準類型安全存量還有替代方式 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:37,500 | 我跟昭偉報告一下 |
| 00:01:37,500 | 00:01:39,000 | 比如說像能源供應事業的話 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:41,500 | 它就有規定說能源供應數量 |
| 00:01:41,500 | 00:01:42,500 | 好 我了解 吳署長 |
| 00:01:42,500 | 00:01:45,000 | 是不是如果我這一條我不放進去 |
| 00:01:45,000 | 00:01:47,500 | 但是你們在相關執法裡面訂的更明確一點 |
| 00:01:47,500 | 00:01:48,500 | 沒問題 |
| 00:01:48,500 | 00:01:49,500 | 好 |
| 00:01:49,500 | 00:01:51,500 | 另外第九條的部分 |
| 00:01:51,500 | 00:01:55,500 | 第九條我看你們報告好像你們也有相關的執法在做執行 |
| 00:01:55,500 | 00:01:57,500 | 就針對這些 |
| 00:01:57,500 | 00:02:00,500 | 這個查核機制 |
| 00:02:00,500 | 00:02:04,500 | 節能的目標執行計畫的準則 |
| 00:02:04,500 | 00:02:06,500 | 這些部分執法裡面有嗎 |
| 00:02:08,500 | 00:02:14,500 | 我們是我們是有規定就是說他要報的這個計畫 |
| 00:02:14,500 | 00:02:16,500 | 報完以後我們現在是改 |
| 00:02:16,500 | 00:02:17,500 | 以前是核備比較不明確 |
| 00:02:17,500 | 00:02:18,500 | 我們現在改成核定 |
| 00:02:18,500 | 00:02:20,500 | 核定那裡有相關的查核的這個 |
| 00:02:20,500 | 00:02:22,500 | 有 我們有相關的查核機制 |
| 00:02:22,500 | 00:02:23,500 | 訂在哪裡呢 |
| 00:02:23,500 | 00:02:27,500 | 他另外有執法裡面會有第一個公告怎麼查核 |
| 00:02:27,500 | 00:02:29,500 | 現在執法訂了嗎還在訂 |
| 00:02:29,500 | 00:02:31,500 | 原來就有一個執法 |
| 00:02:31,500 | 00:02:32,500 | 對 因為這是一個就有 |
| 00:02:32,500 | 00:02:36,500 | 所以你原來就有這個執法針對這個我這邊所羅列的 |
| 00:02:36,500 | 00:02:40,500 | 能源查核制度執行計畫準則相關都有嗎 |
| 00:02:40,500 | 00:02:42,500 | 都有類似的規定 |
| 00:02:42,500 | 00:02:44,500 | 那因為我們現在本來就有大用戶 |
| 00:02:44,500 | 00:02:46,500 | 一年要節電1%跟1.5% |
| 00:02:46,500 | 00:02:48,500 | 所以我們有相關的一些規定 |
| 00:02:48,500 | 00:02:49,500 | 那委員這邊 |
| 00:02:49,500 | 00:02:51,500 | 我希望說如果我這不放進去 |
| 00:02:51,500 | 00:02:53,500 | 你們相關執法要制定更完整一點 |
| 00:02:53,500 | 00:02:54,500 | 好 |
| 00:02:54,500 | 00:02:56,500 | 第七條跟第九條 |
| 00:02:56,500 | 00:02:59,500 | 那另外就是說你第十條的部分 |
| 00:02:59,500 | 00:03:02,500 | 這個缺容量 |
| 00:03:02,500 | 00:03:04,500 | 大概一定容量的這個用戶 |
| 00:03:04,500 | 00:03:09,500 | 一定期限裝置一定容量以上的自用發電設備跟儲能設備 |
| 00:03:09,500 | 00:03:12,500 | 這些是你要用執法來做規範嗎 |
| 00:03:12,500 | 00:03:14,500 | 是是是 |
| 00:03:14,500 | 00:03:15,500 | 是因為 |
| 00:03:15,500 | 00:03:20,500 | 因為再生能源條例也是類似這樣的體力 |
| 00:03:20,500 | 00:03:22,500 | 所以你用執法 |
| 00:03:22,500 | 00:03:23,500 | 那執法什麼會出來呢 |
| 00:03:23,500 | 00:03:26,500 | 執法通常是母法通過以後的半年 |
| 00:03:26,500 | 00:03:27,500 | 半年之內會出來 |
| 00:03:27,500 | 00:03:30,500 | 所以會很清楚的規範相關的 |
| 00:03:30,500 | 00:03:33,500 | 包括裝置容量設備種類設施方式等等 |
| 00:03:33,500 | 00:03:34,500 | 是是是 |
| 00:03:34,500 | 00:03:35,500 | 好 |
| 00:03:35,500 | 00:03:38,500 | 那另外這個是五年以內嗎 |
| 00:03:38,500 | 00:03:41,500 | 再生能源它的規定是說 |
| 00:03:41,500 | 00:03:43,500 | 在當年度1月1日 |
| 00:03:43,500 | 00:03:47,500 | 那是再生能源給予的這個寬限期 |
| 00:03:47,500 | 00:03:49,500 | 或者是磨合期 |
| 00:03:49,500 | 00:03:53,500 | 那我們這個將來也會有類似的寬限期 |
| 00:03:53,500 | 00:03:54,500 | 對對對 |
| 00:03:54,500 | 00:03:55,500 | 那期限是多少呢 |
| 00:03:55,500 | 00:03:57,500 | 要訂執法訂 |
| 00:03:57,500 | 00:03:59,500 | 執法訂但是因為 |
| 00:03:59,500 | 00:04:01,500 | 條例是那個再生能源是五年 |
| 00:04:01,500 | 00:04:05,500 | 我們用這個基準來跟相關業者做一個討論 |
| 00:04:05,500 | 00:04:07,500 | 好那可能會訂多久 |
| 00:04:07,500 | 00:04:09,500 | 就是用五年做一個基準 |
| 00:04:09,500 | 00:04:10,500 | 也是用五年 |
| 00:04:10,500 | 00:04:12,500 | 對問問他們可不可以做到 |
| 00:04:12,500 | 00:04:13,500 | 意思是這樣 |
| 00:04:13,500 | 00:04:15,500 | 如果說他們回答做不到呢 |
| 00:04:15,500 | 00:04:16,500 | 我們當然也會判斷 |
| 00:04:16,500 | 00:04:18,500 | 他要講一個理由 |
| 00:04:18,500 | 00:04:20,500 | 十年他如果說十年 |
| 00:04:20,500 | 00:04:21,500 | 你們可以接受嗎 |
| 00:04:21,500 | 00:04:24,500 | 我們還是用五年做為基準來做為討論 |
| 00:04:24,500 | 00:04:26,500 | 那你訂下去他就要遵守 |
| 00:04:26,500 | 00:04:31,500 | 我們當然也一定要讓他可以做得到 |
| 00:04:31,500 | 00:04:34,500 | 是啦那如果業界普遍反應 |
| 00:04:34,500 | 00:04:36,500 | 就跟你們陳情說十年你們會接受嗎 |
| 00:04:36,500 | 00:04:38,500 | 那個真的太久了 |
| 00:04:38,500 | 00:04:41,500 | 你覺得合理期限當然是多久 |
| 00:04:41,500 | 00:04:45,500 | 就是我們用五年做為基準來做討論 |
| 00:04:45,500 | 00:04:48,500 | 好那另外繼續請教第十條 |
| 00:04:48,500 | 00:04:51,500 | 其實還是有相關的問題 |
| 00:04:51,500 | 00:04:55,500 | 你跟訂業法做一些配套去思考 |
| 00:04:55,500 | 00:04:57,500 | 會有一些買不到的問題 |
| 00:04:57,500 | 00:04:59,500 | 還有沒有地蓋的問題 |
| 00:04:59,500 | 00:05:01,500 | 還有整合的問題等等 |
| 00:05:01,500 | 00:05:03,500 | 這些讓你自愛難行 |
| 00:05:03,500 | 00:05:06,500 | 你圖有相關的法定的義務 |
| 00:05:06,500 | 00:05:09,500 | 但是哪裡去履行這些法定義務 |
| 00:05:10,500 | 00:05:12,500 | 所以部長跟署長有沒有看到這個問題 |
| 00:05:12,500 | 00:05:14,500 | 所以剛剛跟委員報告就是說 |
| 00:05:14,500 | 00:05:16,500 | 為什麼我們要跟相關 |
| 00:05:16,500 | 00:05:18,500 | 利害關係的人做一個討論 |
| 00:05:18,500 | 00:05:20,500 | 相關利害關係有多少人 |
| 00:05:20,500 | 00:05:23,500 | 700多戶 |
| 00:05:23,500 | 00:05:24,500 | 700多戶 |
| 00:05:24,500 | 00:05:26,500 | 如果用5MW |
| 00:05:26,500 | 00:05:28,500 | 有700多戶5MW |
| 00:05:28,500 | 00:05:30,500 | 然後你們有召開相關的會議的嗎 |
| 00:05:30,500 | 00:05:32,500 | 召開了兩場 |
| 00:05:32,500 | 00:05:33,500 | 後續還會召開 |
| 00:05:33,500 | 00:05:35,500 | 那主要是分布在哪裡 |
| 00:05:35,500 | 00:05:37,500 | 700多戶主要分布在哪裡 |
| 00:05:37,500 | 00:05:39,500 | 跟委員報告講 |
| 00:05:39,500 | 00:05:40,500 | 他有的是在園區 |
| 00:05:40,500 | 00:05:41,500 | 有的是在工業區 |
| 00:05:41,500 | 00:05:42,500 | 都有 |
| 00:05:42,500 | 00:05:43,500 | 那我們現在是 |
| 00:05:43,500 | 00:05:44,500 | 在台北開過一場 |
| 00:05:44,500 | 00:05:45,500 | 高雄也開過一場 |
| 00:05:45,500 | 00:05:47,500 | 我們後續還會陸續到 |
| 00:05:47,500 | 00:05:49,500 | 比較集中的區域去開 |
| 00:05:49,500 | 00:05:50,500 | 這些說明會 |
| 00:05:50,500 | 00:05:53,500 | 這個三個問題都很難去處理 |
| 00:05:53,500 | 00:05:54,500 | 買不到 |
| 00:05:54,500 | 00:05:56,500 | 真的就是買不到 |
| 00:05:56,500 | 00:05:58,500 | 然後你要叫他去有一些 |
| 00:05:58,500 | 00:06:00,500 | 什麼市行設施、市行使用 |
| 00:06:00,500 | 00:06:03,500 | 那他找地啊 |
| 00:06:03,500 | 00:06:05,500 | 沒有地怎麼去蓋 |
| 00:06:05,500 | 00:06:07,500 | 所以我剛剛跟委員報告 |
| 00:06:07,500 | 00:06:08,500 | 就是說我們還是要跟這些 |
| 00:06:08,500 | 00:06:10,500 | 利害關係人作為討論 |
| 00:06:10,500 | 00:06:11,500 | 而且新舊可能會有要求 |
| 00:06:11,500 | 00:06:13,500 | 會有不一樣 |
| 00:06:13,500 | 00:06:17,500 | 這個部分你們還要討論多久 |
| 00:06:17,500 | 00:06:20,500 | 就是持續的跟這些廠商 |
| 00:06:20,500 | 00:06:22,500 | 有一些座談會 |
| 00:06:22,500 | 00:06:24,500 | 持續來做一些討論 |
| 00:06:24,500 | 00:06:25,500 | 持續的 |
| 00:06:25,500 | 00:06:26,500 | 但是我覺得你光開完座談會 |
| 00:06:26,500 | 00:06:28,500 | 總要解決這些問題 |
| 00:06:28,500 | 00:06:31,500 | 你要有一個完整的一個報告 |
| 00:06:31,500 | 00:06:32,500 | 是 |
| 00:06:32,500 | 00:06:33,500 | 這些完整的報告 |
| 00:06:33,500 | 00:06:35,500 | 就是說要牽涉到 |
| 00:06:35,500 | 00:06:37,500 | 如何解決買不到問題 |
| 00:06:37,500 | 00:06:39,500 | 如何解決沒地蓋的問題 |
| 00:06:39,500 | 00:06:41,500 | 如何解決整合問題 |
| 00:06:41,500 | 00:06:43,500 | 報告不要說給你半年 |
| 00:06:43,500 | 00:06:45,500 | 半年會不會太久 |
| 00:06:45,500 | 00:06:47,500 | 半年可以嗎 |
| 00:06:47,500 | 00:06:48,500 | 可以啊 |
| 00:06:48,500 | 00:06:49,500 | 因為母法通過半年 |
| 00:06:49,500 | 00:06:51,500 | 我們一定要出 |
| 00:06:51,500 | 00:06:52,500 | 所以你要把這個問題 |
| 00:06:52,500 | 00:06:54,500 | 三個月啦 |
| 00:06:54,500 | 00:06:55,500 | 初步的解決 |
| 00:06:55,500 | 00:06:57,500 | 三個月提出一個報告好不好 |
| 00:06:57,500 | 00:06:58,500 | 好 |
| 00:06:58,500 | 00:07:01,500 | 另外電網內心的問題 |
| 00:07:01,500 | 00:07:03,500 | 一停電就造成民生 |
| 00:07:03,500 | 00:07:06,500 | 或者是工業生產很大的問題 |
| 00:07:06,500 | 00:07:08,500 | 所以停電是一個夢業 |
| 00:07:08,500 | 00:07:10,500 | 所以你從109到114年 |
| 00:07:10,500 | 00:07:12,500 | 停電的三小時次數 |
| 00:07:12,500 | 00:07:14,500 | 一直在增加 |
| 00:07:14,500 | 00:07:15,500 | 所以這部分 |
| 00:07:15,500 | 00:07:17,500 | 如果有一個統計 |
| 00:07:17,500 | 00:07:18,500 | 有一個資料庫 |
| 00:07:18,500 | 00:07:21,500 | 你要盤點整個一位風災 |
| 00:07:21,500 | 00:07:23,500 | 或者過去有停電記錄 |
| 00:07:23,500 | 00:07:24,500 | 三個小時的 |
| 00:07:24,500 | 00:07:26,500 | 屬於高風險地區 |
| 00:07:26,500 | 00:07:28,500 | 我們要進行結構的整 |
| 00:07:28,500 | 00:07:29,500 | 強化 |
| 00:07:29,500 | 00:07:30,500 | 強化 |
| 00:07:30,500 | 00:07:32,500 | 有沒有這相關的資料 |
| 00:07:34,500 | 00:07:36,500 | 那個台電公司有沒有代表 |
| 00:07:36,500 | 00:07:38,500 | 這個部分我們有資料 |
| 00:07:38,500 | 00:07:39,500 | 那我們是不是會後 |
| 00:07:39,500 | 00:07:41,500 | 再提供給委員 |
| 00:07:41,500 | 00:07:42,500 | 這個資料提供給我 |
| 00:07:42,500 | 00:07:44,500 | 但是最重要的是說 |
| 00:07:44,500 | 00:07:46,500 | 你們針對這個高風險地區 |
| 00:07:46,500 | 00:07:47,500 | 除了盤點之外 |
| 00:07:47,500 | 00:07:50,500 | 你們去強化那個防災韌性 |
| 00:07:50,500 | 00:07:52,500 | 跟陷入的維護 |
| 00:07:52,500 | 00:07:55,500 | 讓這三小時不會常常出現 |
| 00:07:55,500 | 00:07:56,500 | 其實報告委員 |
| 00:07:56,500 | 00:07:57,500 | 其實我們都會針對 |
| 00:07:57,500 | 00:07:59,500 | 這些比較高風險 |
| 00:07:59,500 | 00:08:00,500 | 或者是說 |
| 00:08:00,500 | 00:08:02,500 | 去盤點相關的一些熱區 |
| 00:08:02,500 | 00:08:04,500 | 去做一個加強的 |
| 00:08:04,500 | 00:08:06,500 | 一個重點的巡視 |
| 00:08:06,500 | 00:08:07,500 | 跟防範的對策 |
| 00:08:07,500 | 00:08:10,500 | 你們台電總公司要有個對策 |
| 00:08:10,500 | 00:08:12,500 | 要有個政策方向 |
| 00:08:12,500 | 00:08:14,500 | 然後要各分處去執行 |
| 00:08:14,500 | 00:08:16,500 | 把他所轄下的熱點 |
| 00:08:16,500 | 00:08:17,500 | 三個小時以上 |
| 00:08:17,500 | 00:08:19,500 | 停電的過去的這些記錄 |
| 00:08:19,500 | 00:08:22,500 | 要加強他整個韌性的強化 |
| 00:08:22,500 | 00:08:23,500 | 是 石邦委員 |
| 00:08:23,500 | 00:08:25,500 | 我們都是朝這個方向去努力 |
| 00:08:25,500 | 00:08:26,500 | 好 謝謝 |
| 00:08:27,500 | 00:08:28,500 | 謝謝邱章偉 |