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陳昭姿 @ 第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:01,000 | 法輝言 |
| 00:00:04,720 | 00:00:08,740 | 謝謝主席 遊行法務部黃次長 還有司法院許廳長 |
| 00:00:08,740 | 00:00:10,560 | 好 請次長跟廳長 |
| 00:00:11,140 | 00:00:11,940 | 委員好 |
| 00:00:11,940 | 00:00:14,500 | 好 次長 我之前 |
| 00:00:14,500 | 00:00:17,200 | 質詢台南監獄這事情 |
| 00:00:17,200 | 00:00:19,200 | 那因為引起很大的迴響 |
| 00:00:19,200 | 00:00:23,340 | 在全國監獄的管理員也都向我做一些懲情 |
| 00:00:23,340 | 00:00:26,400 | 部長有答應我說兩週內要給我書面 |
| 00:00:26,400 | 00:00:29,200 | 書面報告 現在已經到期了 |
| 00:00:29,300 | 00:00:31,300 | 那我知道我還沒有看到 |
| 00:00:31,300 | 00:00:33,300 | 但是我要再催促一下 |
| 00:00:33,300 | 00:00:36,300 | 因為部長的承諾我想是一定要執行 |
| 00:00:36,300 | 00:00:38,300 | 但是我也是謝謝說 |
| 00:00:38,300 | 00:00:42,100 | 小政署 小政署親自前幾天也帶了大概六七位同事 |
| 00:00:42,100 | 00:00:45,000 | 盡量跟我說明他們整個的管理情形 |
| 00:00:45,000 | 00:00:47,000 | 我也了解他們的辛勞跟努力 |
| 00:00:47,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 但是我也要說明說我們在質詢的時候 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:51,700 | 其實並不是要對立 |
| 00:00:51,700 | 00:00:53,500 | 就是大家各司其職 |
| 00:00:53,500 | 00:00:54,500 | 就是行政院做事 |
| 00:00:54,500 | 00:00:57,400 | 那我們來做一個監督跟催促 |
| 00:00:57,500 | 00:01:00,500 | 那大家都是為了這個國家跟人民好 |
| 00:01:00,500 | 00:01:03,500 | 所以這個書面報告也請不要漏掉 |
| 00:01:03,500 | 00:01:05,500 | 好 那我現在就先請教許廳長 |
| 00:01:05,500 | 00:01:07,500 | 7月18號下午一點鐘 |
| 00:01:07,500 | 00:01:09,500 | 一名法官被發現倒臥在 |
| 00:01:09,500 | 00:01:12,500 | 台中司法大廈的這個宿舍區的地面 |
| 00:01:12,500 | 00:01:14,000 | 疑似在台中地院 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:16,500 | 他為了這個在宿舍區架梯修樹 |
| 00:01:16,500 | 00:01:20,500 | 這個可能因為大雨造成樓梯很這個失法 |
| 00:01:20,500 | 00:01:21,500 | 屍足墜落 |
| 00:01:21,500 | 00:01:23,500 | 然後不幸當場死亡 |
| 00:01:23,500 | 00:01:25,500 | 目前已經報警檢察官來相驗 |
| 00:01:25,500 | 00:01:26,500 | 釐清死因 |
| 00:01:26,600 | 00:01:27,600 | 我看到這個新聞非常難過 |
| 00:01:27,600 | 00:01:29,600 | 我想每一個人都是一樣的 |
| 00:01:29,600 | 00:01:32,600 | 那我現在請問許廳長跟次長 |
| 00:01:32,600 | 00:01:35,600 | 事情發生在法務法院的宿舍 |
| 00:01:35,600 | 00:01:38,600 | 但法警就是法務部來所主管 |
| 00:01:38,600 | 00:01:42,600 | 我想請問修檢宿舍的宿 |
| 00:01:42,600 | 00:01:44,600 | 是法警的工作嗎 |
| 00:01:46,600 | 00:01:47,600 | 是嗎 |
| 00:01:47,600 | 00:01:50,600 | 首先感謝委員關切司法院所屬法院 |
| 00:01:50,600 | 00:01:52,600 | 這個同仁的這個健康與安全 |
| 00:01:52,600 | 00:01:54,600 | 那表示表達謝意 |
| 00:01:54,699 | 00:01:56,699 | 那這個關於這件事情 |
| 00:01:56,699 | 00:01:59,699 | 大家聽聞之後深感遺憾 |
| 00:01:59,699 | 00:02:01,699 | 那台中地院也對於這個家屬 |
| 00:02:01,699 | 00:02:03,699 | 以及這個事件進行必要的處理 |
| 00:02:03,699 | 00:02:05,699 | 不好意思因為今天的質詢時間比較短 |
| 00:02:05,699 | 00:02:07,699 | 次長這個是他的工作嗎 |
| 00:02:07,699 | 00:02:11,700 | 這個這個部分因為據目前 |
| 00:02:11,700 | 00:02:13,700 | 法警負責修樹嗎 |
| 00:02:13,700 | 00:02:15,700 | 他這個修檢樹枝是在宿舍區 |
| 00:02:15,700 | 00:02:17,700 | 那他本身居住於宿舍區 |
| 00:02:17,700 | 00:02:19,700 | 那這個修檢樹枝 |
| 00:02:19,700 | 00:02:22,700 | 目前的了解他並非因公指派 |
| 00:02:22,799 | 00:02:24,799 | 進行樹枝的修剪 |
| 00:02:24,799 | 00:02:26,799 | 你的意思是說他是主動去做這樣的工作 |
| 00:02:26,799 | 00:02:28,799 | 是嗎 |
| 00:02:28,799 | 00:02:30,799 | 應該是說目前了解的狀況 |
| 00:02:30,799 | 00:02:32,799 | 他並不是因為依照法院的指示 |
| 00:02:32,799 | 00:02:34,799 | 來做修檢樹枝的工作 |
| 00:02:34,799 | 00:02:36,799 | 因為他可能不是他的本質不是這樣 |
| 00:02:36,799 | 00:02:38,799 | 他只是在宿舍區 |
| 00:02:38,799 | 00:02:40,799 | 那但是次長我還是要說 |
| 00:02:40,799 | 00:02:42,799 | 還有聽長司法院平常 |
| 00:02:42,799 | 00:02:44,799 | 是不是應該就把環境維護好 |
| 00:02:44,799 | 00:02:46,799 | 第二個即便是要協助修樹的工作 |
| 00:02:46,799 | 00:02:48,799 | 無論這是本來是這個 |
| 00:02:48,799 | 00:02:50,799 | 公有的同仁或外包廠商 |
| 00:02:50,900 | 00:02:52,900 | 也要避免在大雨天工作 |
| 00:02:52,900 | 00:02:54,900 | 那你最好梯子還有人幫忙這個扶持 |
| 00:02:54,900 | 00:02:56,900 | 我想聽長你認同我這個說法嗎 |
| 00:02:56,900 | 00:02:58,900 | 我覺得所有公務員的這個扶持 |
| 00:02:58,900 | 00:03:00,900 | 都是司法院的這個最關切的事情 |
| 00:03:00,900 | 00:03:02,900 | 那這個部分呢 |
| 00:03:02,900 | 00:03:04,900 | 我們會加強這個 |
| 00:03:04,900 | 00:03:06,900 | 他就是在下大雨當中 |
| 00:03:06,900 | 00:03:08,900 | 滑下來的 |
| 00:03:08,900 | 00:03:10,900 | 但是他其實並不是因為 |
| 00:03:10,900 | 00:03:12,900 | 他不是因為對他主動 |
| 00:03:12,900 | 00:03:14,900 | 即便如此就是環境沒有弄好 |
| 00:03:14,900 | 00:03:16,900 | 就是有人需要去做這個工作 |
| 00:03:16,900 | 00:03:18,900 | 也許本來是別人的工作 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 也許本來是別人的工作 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:23,000 | 就是外包廠商或是這個 |
| 00:03:23,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 其他的公有同仁 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 那基本上我的意思是說 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 你就是要做一些處理 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 所以我希望說第一個相關的 |
| 00:03:31,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 補序一定要完善 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:35,000 | 我確認一下這個補序是司法院還是法務部 |
| 00:03:35,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 這個有關 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 他這個造成這個死亡的結果 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 如果是因公補序的 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 要符合因公的要件 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 那他的這個 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 得到的補序當然優於其他的室友 |
| 00:03:47,100 | 00:03:49,100 | 不過他到底是不是因公 |
| 00:03:49,100 | 00:03:51,100 | 那這仍然要全序部來依照這個事實 |
| 00:03:51,100 | 00:03:53,100 | 這個你一定要從國安法解釋 |
| 00:03:53,100 | 00:03:55,100 | 他就是下雨天去幫忙修宿嘛 |
| 00:03:55,100 | 00:03:57,100 | 那將來如何避免 |
| 00:03:57,100 | 00:03:59,100 | 我想說請司法院是不是一周給我回覆一下 |
| 00:03:59,100 | 00:04:01,100 | 因為為什麼發生這樣的事情 |
| 00:04:01,100 | 00:04:03,100 | 我們不能讓它再發生了好嗎 |
| 00:04:03,100 | 00:04:05,100 | 那市長請回座 |
| 00:04:05,100 | 00:04:07,100 | 我上個月質詢過這個問題 |
| 00:04:07,100 | 00:04:09,100 | 台灣2023年就全面禁止電子煙 |
| 00:04:09,100 | 00:04:11,100 | 但是我只要輸入 |
| 00:04:11,100 | 00:04:13,100 | 電子煙商店這幾個關鍵字 |
| 00:04:13,100 | 00:04:15,100 | 還是可以看到這個網路上 |
| 00:04:15,200 | 00:04:17,200 | 有大量的販售網站 |
| 00:04:17,200 | 00:04:19,200 | 依然可以繼續買 |
| 00:04:19,200 | 00:04:21,200 | 那這個部分上次部長說他不是法務部 |
| 00:04:21,200 | 00:04:23,200 | 負責的是外服部負責 |
| 00:04:23,200 | 00:04:25,200 | 那我尊重法規的分工 |
| 00:04:25,200 | 00:04:27,200 | 但是行政院在報告就講 |
| 00:04:27,200 | 00:04:29,200 | 要跨部會合作要完善多元 |
| 00:04:29,200 | 00:04:31,200 | 毒品的防治網絡 |
| 00:04:31,200 | 00:04:33,200 | 那一個月過去了那我想請教 |
| 00:04:33,200 | 00:04:35,200 | 是法務部在跨部會合作 |
| 00:04:35,200 | 00:04:37,200 | 這個部分有沒有做了哪些 |
| 00:04:37,200 | 00:04:39,200 | 具體工作有沒有主動召開跨部會 |
| 00:04:39,200 | 00:04:41,200 | 會議有沒有協調外服部、速發部 |
| 00:04:41,200 | 00:04:43,200 | 甚至警政署 |
| 00:04:43,300 | 00:04:45,300 | 網路販售電子煙平台進行聯合的一個查詢 |
| 00:04:45,300 | 00:04:47,300 | 還是說 |
| 00:04:47,300 | 00:04:49,300 | 就留在一個書面報告呢 |
| 00:04:49,300 | 00:04:51,300 | 各位報告這個當然是屬於 |
| 00:04:51,300 | 00:04:53,300 | 煙害防治法所業管的範圍 |
| 00:04:53,300 | 00:04:55,300 | 他的確是外服部的主管法規 |
| 00:04:55,300 | 00:04:57,300 | 那據我所知行政院已經召開多次會議 |
| 00:04:57,300 | 00:04:59,300 | 事實上外服部就這 |
| 00:04:59,300 | 00:05:01,300 | 煙害防治法有關於電子煙的部分 |
| 00:05:01,300 | 00:05:03,300 | 他這個製造運輸販賣部分 |
| 00:05:03,300 | 00:05:05,300 | 他把入刑持有把行政法 |
| 00:05:05,300 | 00:05:07,300 | 他都已經提出相關的情況 |
| 00:05:07,300 | 00:05:09,300 | 是的我要說的就是說 |
| 00:05:09,300 | 00:05:11,300 | 煙害防治我當然知道主責機關是外服部 |
| 00:05:11,400 | 00:05:13,400 | 我不是問外服部要不要取代 |
| 00:05:13,400 | 00:05:15,400 | 是法務部要不要取代外服部 |
| 00:05:15,400 | 00:05:17,400 | 來執法而是今年這個 |
| 00:05:17,400 | 00:05:19,400 | 一托米紙上次一案最常見的使用 |
| 00:05:19,400 | 00:05:21,400 | 就是因為電子煙 |
| 00:05:21,400 | 00:05:23,400 | 他透過電子煙 |
| 00:05:23,400 | 00:05:25,400 | 電子已經不是單純的煙害問題 |
| 00:05:25,400 | 00:05:27,400 | 而是一個最新更新圖品 |
| 00:05:27,400 | 00:05:29,400 | 新新圖品的這個重要適用的 |
| 00:05:29,400 | 00:05:31,400 | 這個載具那既然你報告也寫 |
| 00:05:31,400 | 00:05:33,400 | 跨部會合作啊 |
| 00:05:33,400 | 00:05:35,400 | 那我是想知道在跨部會合作這個部分 |
| 00:05:35,400 | 00:05:37,400 | 法務部扮演什麼角色 |
| 00:05:37,400 | 00:05:39,400 | 我到外服當然也問他扮演什麼角色 |
| 00:05:39,500 | 00:05:41,500 | 你扮演了什麼角色 |
| 00:05:41,500 | 00:05:43,500 | 這個跟委員報告 |
| 00:05:43,500 | 00:05:45,500 | 那電子煙本身它就是一個載具 |
| 00:05:45,500 | 00:05:47,500 | 我剛才講它裡面裝的是毒品 |
| 00:05:47,500 | 00:05:49,500 | 它就違反我們毒品外害防治條例 |
| 00:05:49,500 | 00:05:51,500 | 它就是一個犯罪 |
| 00:05:51,500 | 00:05:53,500 | 所以我們台高檢它就查氣面 |
| 00:05:53,500 | 00:05:55,500 | 它有結合各行政機關各查緝機關 |
| 00:05:55,500 | 00:05:57,500 | 謝謝你的說明我的要求 |
| 00:05:57,500 | 00:05:59,500 | 跨部會合作因為跨部會不要 |
| 00:05:59,500 | 00:06:01,500 | 每個部位都不用做嘛 |
| 00:06:01,500 | 00:06:03,500 | 現在就變成這樣不然誰來做呢 |
| 00:06:03,500 | 00:06:05,500 | 卓院長嗎 |
| 00:06:05,500 | 00:06:07,500 | 那這個一托米紙在6月17號升級為一級毒品 |
| 00:06:07,600 | 00:06:09,600 | 我們從新聞上可以看到 |
| 00:06:09,600 | 00:06:11,600 | 這一個多月來一托米紙獨家案 |
| 00:06:11,600 | 00:06:13,600 | 剛剛也有人在立委在說明 |
| 00:06:13,600 | 00:06:15,600 | 一再發生 |
| 00:06:15,600 | 00:06:17,600 | 我搜尋上週新聞就有好幾起 |
| 00:06:17,600 | 00:06:19,600 | 中部南部台北部中部南部都有 |
| 00:06:19,600 | 00:06:21,600 | 可見說 |
| 00:06:21,600 | 00:06:23,600 | 升級為一級毒品對這個好像 |
| 00:06:23,600 | 00:06:25,600 | 賀主力還是不足的 |
| 00:06:25,600 | 00:06:27,600 | 那因為他剛剛我也報告過 |
| 00:06:27,600 | 00:06:29,600 | 他結合電子煙這個吸食非常容易 |
| 00:06:29,600 | 00:06:31,600 | 開車中隨時來一口 |
| 00:06:31,600 | 00:06:33,600 | 他們爽別人遭殃 |
| 00:06:33,600 | 00:06:35,600 | 那次長 |
| 00:06:35,700 | 00:06:37,700 | 法務部不是人才背書嗎 |
| 00:06:37,700 | 00:06:39,700 | 不是人才很多嗎為什麼 |
| 00:06:39,700 | 00:06:41,700 | 沒有想出一個方法或政策 |
| 00:06:41,700 | 00:06:43,700 | 能夠有效的降低這種高風險 |
| 00:06:43,700 | 00:06:45,700 | 的這個狀況呢 |
| 00:06:45,700 | 00:06:47,700 | 個人報告這涉及到法治面 |
| 00:06:47,700 | 00:06:49,700 | 跟查緝面查緝面當然我們 |
| 00:06:49,700 | 00:06:51,700 | 所有的檢察機關只會檢警掉全列查緝面 |
| 00:06:51,700 | 00:06:53,700 | 問題那法治面 |
| 00:06:53,700 | 00:06:55,700 | 跟國研報告有關於這個毒價的部分 |
| 00:06:55,700 | 00:06:57,700 | 或者是毒品犯罪我們不斷的 |
| 00:06:57,700 | 00:06:59,700 | 修法過延為拉也有 |
| 00:06:59,700 | 00:07:01,700 | 那我也要告訴你升級不是壞事 |
| 00:07:01,700 | 00:07:03,700 | 但是升級是一刀兩刃 |
| 00:07:03,800 | 00:07:05,800 | 因為這個藥是屬於在醫院要用的 |
| 00:07:05,800 | 00:07:07,800 | 我自己在醫院工作一輩子 |
| 00:07:07,800 | 00:07:09,800 | 你知道管道的是醫療人員 |
| 00:07:09,800 | 00:07:11,800 | 你知道他們的工作負荷有多重 |
| 00:07:11,800 | 00:07:13,800 | 但是這個真正的在外面的這個毒品 |
| 00:07:13,800 | 00:07:15,800 | 台灣只有只有台灣 |
| 00:07:15,800 | 00:07:17,800 | 把醫療用的東西放為一級毒品 |
| 00:07:17,800 | 00:07:19,800 | 但我也不反對 |
| 00:07:19,800 | 00:07:21,800 | 只是說一刀但是你在外面在執行的時候 |
| 00:07:21,800 | 00:07:23,800 | 原地為了這個管這個不該 |
| 00:07:23,800 | 00:07:25,800 | 不當的使用你們要特別努力 |
| 00:07:25,800 | 00:07:27,800 | 次長行政院在毒品及防治這個 |
| 00:07:27,800 | 00:07:29,800 | 毒價防治當中情報 |
| 00:07:29,800 | 00:07:31,800 | 其中把強化查緝作為 |
| 00:07:31,900 | 00:07:33,900 | 三大組的很重要 |
| 00:07:33,900 | 00:07:35,900 | 那裡面有特別提到要唾液這個檢驗入法 |
| 00:07:35,900 | 00:07:37,900 | 加強時效跟量能 |
| 00:07:37,900 | 00:07:39,900 | 這個都沒有問題 |
| 00:07:39,900 | 00:07:41,900 | 但是我認為很重要的一點是什麼呢 |
| 00:07:41,900 | 00:07:43,900 | 要快也要準 |
| 00:07:43,900 | 00:07:45,900 | 那這幾個方向都是對的 |
| 00:07:45,900 | 00:07:47,900 | 那因為如果你這個查緝效率很好 |
| 00:07:47,900 | 00:07:49,900 | 但是不準 |
| 00:07:49,900 | 00:07:51,900 | 準確性跟這個 |
| 00:07:51,900 | 00:07:53,900 | 公信力有問題的話 |
| 00:07:53,900 | 00:07:55,900 | 那不但沒有同步確保這個檢驗的品質 |
| 00:07:55,900 | 00:07:57,900 | 可能影響人民 |
| 00:07:57,900 | 00:07:59,900 | 的權益而且影響第一線執法人員 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 他的執法的這個信心 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 最近有媒體指出 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 毒品這個唾液快篩 |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 疑似出現偽陽性 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 因此大家對這個準確性的討論 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 我先請教次長您知道什麼叫 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 偽陽性嗎為什麼會有偽陽性 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 當然因為這個快篩 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 的部分他目前他只是做一個 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 初篩的工具他沒有像尿液他有 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 初篩跟確認的檢驗機制跟 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 國家的一個這個標準 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 所以目前快篩他就會產生 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 次長我跟你說偽陽性 |
| 00:08:28,100 | 00:08:30,100 | 偽陽性在醫學界用的非常普遍 |
| 00:08:30,100 | 00:08:32,100 | 偽陽性的意思說 |
| 00:08:32,100 | 00:08:34,100 | 這個特異性不夠 |
| 00:08:34,100 | 00:08:36,100 | 就其他不是依托名詞也會被驗出來 |
| 00:08:36,100 | 00:08:38,100 | 這個叫偽陽他不是 |
| 00:08:38,100 | 00:08:40,100 | 吸食毒但是其他的化學物 |
| 00:08:40,100 | 00:08:42,100 | 也許結構等等他就被驗出來 |
| 00:08:42,100 | 00:08:44,100 | 所以我想說第一個這個 |
| 00:08:44,100 | 00:08:46,100 | 也要處理在配套當中 |
| 00:08:46,100 | 00:08:48,100 | 如果你讓第一線執法人員有一致的依循 |
| 00:08:48,100 | 00:08:50,100 | 而且保障人民權益譬如說 |
| 00:08:50,100 | 00:08:52,100 | 駕駛人員偽陽性是偽陽性 |
| 00:08:52,100 | 00:08:54,100 | 假設最後證明是偽陽性嘛 |
| 00:08:54,100 | 00:08:56,100 | 那你當場一致保管確認 |
| 00:08:56,200 | 00:08:58,200 | 剛剛也談了很多跟我們立法方向 |
| 00:08:58,200 | 00:09:00,200 | 不太一致的地方 |
| 00:09:00,200 | 00:09:02,200 | 調扣駕照裁罰 |
| 00:09:02,200 | 00:09:05,200 | 如果說後面證明他不是 |
| 00:09:05,200 | 00:09:07,200 | 適用毒品而是偽陽性的話 |
| 00:09:07,200 | 00:09:09,200 | 那你也配套也要準備好 |
| 00:09:09,200 | 00:09:11,200 | 如果說你的保管費補救機制 |
| 00:09:11,200 | 00:09:13,200 | 那你誤判無法工作 |
| 00:09:13,200 | 00:09:15,200 | 遭受營業損失 |
| 00:09:15,200 | 00:09:17,200 | 就是說千萬不要 |
| 00:09:17,200 | 00:09:19,200 | 千萬不要讓這個 |
| 00:09:19,200 | 00:09:21,200 | 執法在前面配套在後面 |
| 00:09:21,200 | 00:09:23,200 | 即便他的偽陽性現在 |
| 00:09:23,200 | 00:09:25,200 | 也許是百分之幾 |
| 00:09:25,300 | 00:09:27,300 | 那我現在把偽陽性給您聽了 |
| 00:09:27,300 | 00:09:29,300 | 因為這個醫學上是常用的 |
| 00:09:29,300 | 00:09:31,300 | 所以你這個配套要一起來 |
| 00:09:31,300 | 00:09:33,300 | 不能重放有罪者 |
| 00:09:33,300 | 00:09:35,300 | 但是無辜者如果受害的情況下 |
| 00:09:35,300 | 00:09:37,300 | 你們怎麼處理 |
| 00:09:37,300 | 00:09:39,300 | 希望次長把這個部分的配套做好 |
| 00:09:39,300 | 00:09:41,300 | 謝謝次長 謝謝主席 |