| IVOD_ID |
170532 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170532 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-5-19,35,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[2] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[2] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-16T12:14:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-16T12:24:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:41 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c57864e9296d4775aace71ba48b4b6811ac734a26d834dc46e900f186971803aae5e27c9773548e45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
沈伯洋 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:14:45 - 12:24:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查：
一、 行政院函請審議「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案。
二、 本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案。
三、 本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「強化國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例草案」案。
四、 本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例草案」案。(僅詢答)(以上各案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查)） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
11.411 |
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15.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 謝謝主席 那有請部長有請國安部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
48.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
是 陳委員部長好 這個我覺得我們應該都很困惑為什麼我們在經濟委員會這個剛剛前面很多委員應該都有提到了這個其實就是應該在三樓它應該是在我們國防外交委員會要來審查的一個法案但是我們現在卻在經濟到現在我也搞不清楚為什麼今天會到這部田地畢竟我們從無人機的需求從去年開始提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
49.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
68.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
現在已經七月了所以已經整整過了七八個月結果呢在最早的時候呢我們的在野黨講的是什麼講的是說這個沒有國情報告我們就沒有辦法來通過這一些後來呢也沒有國情報告的狀況之下突然就可以通過一部分的特別預算的條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
86.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
然後呢無人機飛鴻供應鏈等等的就莫名其妙的被放在旁邊然後現在又可以又被提出來所以這其實呢不但是拖著我們的國防的時間它其實呢對於這個內容對於品項還有這個法律的寫作我覺得真的是亂七八糟 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
86.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
113.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我在這邊有先列我們現行有兩個非常重要的條例一個是產業創新條例一個是國防產業發展條例這兩個都是我們現在如果我們真的關心國內產業的發展我們就有產業創新條例我記得我好像是在總質詢的時候那時候AI在發展的時候我們認為產業創新條例裡面應該要有AI所以當時怎麼做就把AI放到產業創新條例裡面其實就結束了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
123.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以如果今天我們真的認為無人機的發展重要那我們就把它放到產業創新條例嘛如果今天是跟國防有關的那就放到國防產業發展條例嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
124.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
147.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這陣子我們最有名的應該就是潛建國造這各位應該都非常的清楚請問我們潛建國造帶動國內的產業沒有錯啊那請問我們要弄一個潛建國造產業創新條例嗎不需要啊所以我們現在弄了不管是這一個國民黨提的國防自主無人採聚科技發展採購條例跟民眾黨提的強化國防自主及無人產業發展條例草案這跌床架屋嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
148.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
170.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為這是我們現行的規範裡面就已經有的東西那如果我們要回到跟國防有關的採購國防有關的採購就應該在三樓討論為什麼會在這邊討論我對於現在我們在這邊討論這件事情整個條例的提出和寫作我都非常有意見那我相信部長或是法律人在這邊提幾個點比如說本來的我們這個行政院院辦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
171.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
194.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
他對於預算法跟公共債務法他要怎麼去排除因為他是特別預算的特別條例所以他必須要做一些排除他才有辦法不配不去擠壓我們的年度的預算那現在呢我們用這一個國防自主無人載具科技發展這一個條例他沒有去做排除啊那他財政紀律法跟預算法他本身就沒有遵守啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
195.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
206.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那這不就是要把這樣的一個購買故意的把它放在年度預算那它不是明擺著要你去擠壓我們跟教育跟未還跟這一個社會福利有關的預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
208.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
232.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那如果執政黨我們今天在行政體系裡面我們不願意去擠壓到教育不願意去擠壓到衛福的時候那請問這個預算要怎麼編他實質提出這個條例就是讓你們預算變得不能編如果今天放在特別條例的時候因為他有做排除我們可以在這個狀況之下不擠壓我們的社會福利不擠壓我們的教育文化的狀況之下然後還可以來做這些國防自主產業的這個購買 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
234.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
248.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以這顯然明顯你從去年黨到現在現在這樣做照樣還是黨啊你放在年度預算就是會有困難更不要講說違憲的問題我剛剛聽到前面部長應該都有回答到這個本身等於是立法院自己編預算自己審 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
249.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
272.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這完全不合理嘛更不要講說呢我看到這一個民眾黨的版本裡面講到說要需要發展的綱領需要做什麼交通的改革需要測試的場域問題是我們本來就算是我們原本劃給這一個經濟部四年四百多億的它本來這個四大推動主軸它就已經在上面了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
272.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
280.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那已經在上面的東西他本來這個辦法跟計畫就已經存在那你寫這個條例到底是要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
281.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
304.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
它沒有任何的意義耶就是你把大家都已經在做的事情然後你說要把它變成一個條例為什麼突然要提升到法律的位階剛剛嘉賓委員其實就已經講得很清楚了這一些跟無人載具有關的發展它是日新月異有時候是不到一個月甚至是幾個禮拜它相關的技術它應該有的方向就完全改變了你把它變成條例你其實是把它卡死 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
304.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
333.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那更不要講說呢我看到國民黨這一個版本它裡面講到說這一個呢速發部要會同國防部啦做好這個什麼通訊的模組啦什麼等等之類的然後飛鴻供應鏈可能要怎麼做啦我們的工程會針對飛鴻的分級的方式表明明白白的就我這表格就附在上面啊這本來就有的東西啊我們的工程會的遙控無人機的採購作業指引裡面從預算的編列到採購策略的應用屏占轉換共通性的規格國產化 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
334.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
338.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
飛鴻供應鏈要怎麼做檢測管理使用列帳保險都已經規範了 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
339.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
367.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
啊這些都是已經在規範的事情那為什麼為什麼現在要把他放在這個條例上面然後讓他變得沒有彈性所以我覺得整件事情到現在就是亂搞啊亂搞就算了明明就應該在三樓在國防外交委員會討論結果現在要我們來經濟委員會討論這些事情我們對於國防的自主對於國防的採購這是國防事務欸啊分什麼軍 他說這個軍用跟商用難道是沒有聽過雙用嗎Due use沒有聽過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
369.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
395.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個現在對我們的國防是多麼重要的事情從去年到現在 黨就算了造成國防的這一個購買的delay就算了現在實質的是把它變成條例之後你等於還把它的彈性卡死耶然後到最後把它弄到年度預算之後變成說它沒有辦法只能放在年度預算那這個時候只要你有其他的教育文化跟衛生福利相關的你就要被擠壓那不是明擺著叫你不要編嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
396.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
418.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我覺得這是很過分的一件事情國人必須要正視這件事情剛剛部長在前面已經回答很多了所以我想說這邊部長就不用再回答但是我在這邊有直播一定要讓國人知道到底現在在搞什麼鬼就明明是一件簡單的事情我們今天要帶動國內的產業我們今天科技的發展這個稅收其實是變多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
419.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
445.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那今天在科技發展順遂變多的時候我們對於傳統產業我們要怎麼扶植我們要怎麼讓它加入到這一邊這個非紅供應鏈那時候明明白白在最早提出來的那個特別條例寫多麼清楚如果說剛剛那麼多上來諮詢的委員都說他們不反對非紅供應鏈那為什麼不早早在去年11月的時候就把非紅供應鏈的規則就讓它在特別條例可以通過規則在我們的工程會在我們的指引裡面本來就已經有規定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
447.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
474.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以我覺得這些目前我們現在討論的這幾個除了院版 還有我知道處理委員也有一個版本這其他看起來跟打假球沒有什麼兩樣啦更不要講說裡面還有一個更誇張的 這我一定要提這個國民黨黨版的這個第五條跟第六條它的戰備儲存 它直接跟你講說我載無人載具生產的機器要分布在三個不同的縣市不要集中在單一地理區域我們把戰略的東西定在法條上面要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
475.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
496.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那如果這個以後變成可以索取的事項那我們要怎麼辦我們把國防機密直接把它定在上面然後今天軍民共用測試場的這個跟國安相關的你至少你跟他講說我要至少三處那你把它定在這一邊這些都是對方想要的資料結果我們把它明明白白的定在法條上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
497.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
521.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個說真的這絕對不是一個我是覺得如果對於國防不了解或者對於國際情勢不了解就不要寫出這樣的一個法條然後放在國會的殿堂然後在錯誤的委員會討論這個是我覺得完全不能接受的事情這個是我在去年在今年一月的時候我那時候就有講到如果今天我們認為這個產創我們對於國內的這個產業要扶植要怎麼做我在一月的時候就講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
525.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
542.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
就是經濟部要去微調產促條例十之一當時AI就是這樣做它就是一個現有的法規如果也覺得有什麼新的標準產促條例你在這邊做微調你在經濟委員會你可以討論但你在國防的採購你就是應該回到國防外交委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
543.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
569.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以這真的是我必須要講就是現在這一個情勢我覺得國人一定要看清楚現在在野黨所提出來的這些法條還有這些本本到底在做什麼那真的很不好意思讓這個部會站在這邊但是我覺得因為剛剛前面都已經回答太多了態度也很清楚啦到底有沒有違憲之餘啦這個採購到底如果說你跌到年度預算應該要怎麼辦我覺得剛剛前面都回答得很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
570.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
577.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以我在這邊要表達嚴正的抗議我們應該要回到國防外交委員會來討論國防的採購不是在這邊不是在經濟委員會謝謝 |