| IVOD_ID |
170526 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170526 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-08T12:38:38+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-08T12:54:04+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:26 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf4a05d5bc4f1da0c43e3ff533ba366067622fce35d9e138cd2db9a171d41d2c642409915d7b18685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
莊瑞雄 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:38:38 - 12:54:04 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部、衛生福利部、海洋委員會海巡署、財政部關務署、教育部、數位發展部就「從源頭查緝到道路安全：我國毒品犯罪與毒駕防制政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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莊中偉今天辛苦了,前面很多,因為這個議題很熱門。謝謝莊委,有請我們法務部,請部長,我們政部長,還有警政署副署長有來,衛福部,我看國民健康署副署長有來,還有副署長好不好,那個食藥署。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
38.985 |
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我先來請教鄭部長我今天本來其實很多問題要問但是我坐在台下還有後面記者席那邊聽完今天的委員的質詢完以後我反而有點感慨而發問一點相關但是好像是對國人有所誤解毒品的一個危害我相信在台灣台灣的社會文化裡面大家非常痛恨也就是說我們的社會是玲瓏人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
68.732 |
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政府的態度 毒品的危害 玲瓏忍立法院其實也是玲瓏忍但是這個玲瓏忍 政府跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.857 |
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105.135 |
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立法院不太一樣社會文化裡面玲瓏忍是大家討厭然後呢在立法院裡面呢你動不動把它弄到升級到這個死刑就變成一種證據上的工具政治上的一個宣導好還是壞我不知道但是符合民粹也符合民意啊但是我要問的一個很嚴肅的問題就是說你這個毒品危害呢到底嚴不嚴重我以我個人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
106.474 |
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113.196 |
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經歷違憲經歷啊 看過了不是我自己去吃毒啦但是我從 我當律師啊 我從三十年前當律師啊我那個時候來看這個這個整個 這個整個監所裡面所關的啊當我開始喔 十幾趴二十幾趴 三十幾趴到我做立委第八屆去到第九 第十 十一我去看曾經啊 監所裡面啊 就是說關了這個毒品的齁我們常常說的煙毒犯超過五十趴 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
136.761 |
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社會都會覺得好嚴重監獄裡面也確實是好嚴重可是呢這個統計就也很怪啊聯合國的統計啊 國際上的統計就是說毒品的盛行率啊柏中你知道幾%嗎 標準柏中講嗎這個基本啊 6%啦6%啦這個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
166.21 |
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3.16 有那個數目啦那當然啦 你說全世界來講3.16億啦 全世界是啦 我講的就是6%嘛那在美國來看的話 這個人口 盛行率就是說15歲到64歲的人口來看的話美国25%全世界這算最嚴重的澳洲18% 加拿大15% 法國11% 泰國7% |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
193.499 |
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那些毒品上升率最低的就是你知道嗎新加坡 台灣 南韓這些國家這些國家一趴被國際上聯合國的組織認為是無毒品的安全國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
209.235 |
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212.657 |
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但是我們就看待我們因為社會上對毒品零容忍我們認為台灣的毒品好嚴重好嚴重也不嚴重我也認為跟社會文化來做比較的話逐年確實是這一點多還要再降低我也認為嚴重因為我們社會大眾都認為這個毒品 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
229.31 |
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243.463 |
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吃毒吃吃會做壞人 甚至獨家處理會弄死人這個是很弔詭的一件事情啦但是本席在這個地方我要提出來了就是說你看我們這個毒品危害防治條例喔第二條裡面講的啦 最痛恨的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
244.625 |
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258.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這耳熟能詳的 那個海洛因嘛 麻菲嘛 鴉片嘛 古柯鹼啦你去製造 去運輸 去販賣一級土品的死刑 無期徒刑 很重但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
今天我看很多委員在講的就是說這個獨駕分類獨駕這個要怎麼去做一個防範我們現在我看行政院好像你們法務部六月份已經公告要把這個那個伊東米斯要把它弄成一級毒品所以這也麻煩化學結構你要去把它做一個調整的話你這樣人仰馬翻 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
290.151 |
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319.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這就是說制毒的人去改變一下化學的結構的話法律跟不上我跟不上這樣一個問題啦當然說我現在的感覺就是我現在的直覺就是說政府尤其是法務部我相信檢察官哪一個任何的檢察官或者我們警政署啊對於防制毒品去打擊毒品去源頭去把它做一個阻斷然後抓到以後去被一個重罰我相信在不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
319.975 |
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330.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
警察 不管是檢察官 或者是法界 大家都有這個共識 判下去都會很重啊但是呢 今天大家在說的這個 半衰期這個 說你如果用唾液以他去做一個改變 半衰期這個結構一改變的話我們現在這個檢測的方式 要安裝好像不要讓那個漏網之魚逃掉嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
345.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
370.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個我也 我也贊成但是問題我們目前檢測的方式啊最快的就 唾液嘛 唾液快塞那可是你這個唾液 你在我們刑法第185條之3裡面齁你說不能安全駕駛的保安 我們現在前面1 2 3款我們在說的是抽象危險犯的有這些達到一定的一個標準就直接認定了 可是問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
372.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
400.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你這個刑法第185條之三裡面就沒有規定到的是什麼 唾液就是沒有所以你唾液的一個檢測反而只是一個發動的門檻而已喔就是說我看了你 警察認為說你就在捨刑啊 不能安全的駕駛啊檢測起來剛好 用唾液檢測起來最快嘛剛好有這個檢驗值在不管是預值 那個門檻值到底有多高 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
401.559 |
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就初步就認定你這就是獨家你這就是獨家可是問題就有一個麻煩你碰到這種狀況你檢察官在辦案的時候你也總不可能說有特意檢測以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
416.462 |
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431.852 |
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不用任何論述 直接起訴法官就按照這個直接判刑下去 不可能嘛那是一個快篩快篩的 你是只快篩而已你覺得你還是要那些紙譜 去做一些他那個尿液還是最後還是要尿液的一個結果這個兩難裡面齁我看這麼多委員問這麼多齁這個是一個發動啦 發動啦但是社會大眾又會認為說快最好不要讓他有漏網之魚 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
446.67 |
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452.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
碰到這一種 如果到法院去到最後 那個支撲員弄出來說 你要託那個不尊聖 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
455.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
479.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他根本就是不是一個有沒有證據能力都是個問題報告科委員報告事實上我們那個185之三那個第二款第一項第二款跟第四款裡面他事實上如果說沒辦法檢驗的話沒有血液尿液來做一個檢驗的話事實上我們可以用其他的一個事實的一個證據來證明包括其實包括脫衣快車其實應該算一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
480.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
504.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
包括遠景的密錄器影像測試觀察紀錄表還有植物報告只要是查獲的時候那個獨駕的行為或酒駕的那個行為它可以認定它可以證明它的不能安全下因為它是具體危險化嘛不能安全駕駛的一個危險情況這樣也是成立185之三它是第一項的第二款跟獨駕的就第四款嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
505.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
532.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以其實脫衣快篩其實在一個辦理這些毒價還是有它的一個作用這個還是有它的作用其實在一個逮捕現行犯跟那個申請羈押還是有它的作用但是我們在原警在以及警察在辦理它不會單純以脫衣快篩的陽性當作它唯一的一個證據因為還要做其他的一些的事實的一個做一些的佐證 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
533.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
557.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
一個佐證包括他像毒價他也有在車上查到的其他包括電子煙具電子煙啦還有其他的一些的毒品啦這樣這樣的一些急症所以我們認為是這部分其實沒有一個尿液的檢驗或血液的檢驗還是可以成立犯罪的所以很麻煩我請教衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
560.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
566.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我請教衛福部你們認為像台灣現在這樣來看的話強力打擊毒品這個國人的期待也應該強力打擊毒品犯罪以後造成我們現在台灣的盛行率跟國際上做比較我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
582.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
605.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
如果以聯合國的標準來看的話我們幾乎被人家講成無獨的國家只是我們感情上我們不接受數據上如此但是強力打擊有一個好處啊既就控制在這裡差不多一趴一點多這個是要持續去防護檢警單位要持續去加強這樣源頭的打擊這是對的但是還有一個問題啊你們認為這樣子除了把它控制在這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
611.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
616.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
毒品其他的問題最重要的原因在哪裡?你們不覺得那個債範率的問題嗎?債範率的話,吸毒的會去吃毒的,那債範率會特別高那為什麼會特別高? |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
627.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
642.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
就是怎麼樣去吸毒的人泥怎麼樣去也就是說我們現在是重罰但是我們現在是懲罰重於治療治療這一端如果說我們沒有去做加強的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
644.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
659.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
警察啦法務部啦這樣一直在打擊毒品犯罪那個成效還是會打很大很大的折扣跟委員報告事實上我們那個反毒的一個策略第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
660.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
678.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這真的是反毒的一個策略那事實上是戒毒是一個很重要的一個區塊那當然那事實上法務部的話這部分其實我們對這些的判決確定的或者被查獲的這些我們都是全力去推動這些反起訴的這些的治療 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
679.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
699.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
包括戒嚴治療包括一些社區的一個儲育那這部分我們已經提升到四成了本來那個反毒那個反毒策略第三期他的目標第二期應該是31%但是我們現在都到40%了那我們大力的推動我們希望要用社區的力量民間的力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
700.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
710.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我們去針對這個濕用毒品者他有病人的這個特質因為他那個他吸毒他那個腦部的基因他的變了改變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
711.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
736.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以他沒辦法去克制所以我們用一些的藥物或者一些心理輔導諮商或團體治療的方式去做一個處理所以我們毒品防治基金也花了很多的這些去做這樣的一個輔導給那個NGO團體或者是給我們這些政府機構政機關來做全力來協助這些吸毒者能夠脫離這些毒海的深淵 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
738 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
753.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
但是我們剛才今天的一個獨家可惡他是說吸毒者怎麼會去開車那其實這個毒品的盛需現在我們經過努力第三期的結果其實我那個業務報也有報告我們106年那時候是 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
754.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
777.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
毒品的新增是一萬四千多人現在到去年是降到八千多人事實上我們毒品的新增人口跟再換率是降低的是持續降低的那現在就是因為那個新興毒品的關係他取代了傳統的毒品再加上電子菸去才造成這樣的一個比較我知道柏定你的意思我知道了我告訴你齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
778.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
781.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我在禮拜五的時候 我禮拜五我特別去問十個我的朋友 我問他們這毒品你覺得應該怎麼處理他們說關於事 大家都說關於事 說毒品關完以後再治療不用吃了味 都關於就好 關於就好 也就是說我們的社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
803.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
820.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們的社會認定的是 重罰跟關他們認為這個是有效的可是全世界的統計各國的統計 除了加強打擊源頭 阻絕以外重刑是一種嚇阻可是最有效的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
821.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
840.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
反而是吸了毒以後啊當然前端是防治嘛因為毒品的再販率太高啦所以他認為還是要去治療可是我們的社會的文化反而認為這一塊是沒有那麼重要的喔你們碰到兩難的地方在這裡啦所以我一直認為說 啊這邊怎麼給我工資 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
842.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
863.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我很怕被人誤解說 你看喔在莊瑞祥中講說我們這個毒品不嚴重嚴重對我們整個社會文化來看的話台灣的毒品還算是嚴重我們當然希望說我們的毒品剩食率不是現在的1啊新加坡是 我們是1.1 1.2新加坡是1 我們希望可以到0.5啊我們可以更低啊社會對毒品的氾濫是零容忍的啊那在這個兩相比較之下我認為啦 我們衛福部這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
872.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
875.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
跟法務這裏也能研究一下事實上對於自獨 對於販獨 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
880.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
905.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
當然是這個沙湖社這個社會一定形成一個共識嘛沒有人會去反對嘛但是我們對於這個再販率這個再販率常常啊這個社會有那麼多毒販吃毒的人喔搞不好差不多再販率都是那一些人這一些人除了運輸除了販賣那個是非常可惡啦那個是對那其他這一類型以外啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
906.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
923.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
當然也有人認為說這是一個病人我們社會就算不把他當成病人但是為了讓整個毒品的危害更降低的話除了重罰以外我看後端這個治療的部分我們政府還是要加強因應好不好好 謝謝 |