| IVOD_ID |
170519 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170519 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-15-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-16T10:22:25+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-16T10:32:40+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c57864e9296d477513a5b3444c52bddd769602a34423c74fcd2db9a171d41d2cfa9616673f2f40025ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:22:25 - 10:32:40 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
(變更議程)立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長、警政署署長、法務部次長就「115年11月28日地方公職人員選舉選務維安勤務工作規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員、內政部部長、警政署署長、法務部次長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會就「115年11月28日地方公職人員選舉選務整備、選務中立、假訊息因應作為與公民投票選務辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、繼續審查委員羅智強等18人擬具「公民投票法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。四、繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公民投票法第二十一條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案。五、審查委員葉元之等19人擬具「公民投票法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。六、審查委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「公民投票法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。七、審查委員賴士葆等25人擬具「公民投票法第二十一條條文修正草案」案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.069 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
謝謝主席那我們請這個中選會有主委麻煩有主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
37.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這個齁 年底啊 十一月十八號有可能最多有到六個公投案嘛 是不是我不知道那你知道現在有六個公投案準備要在律法院要進行檢查所以我說吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
41.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
64.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
有可能最多會有六個公投案會在年底的11月18號來做投票這樣講法也沒有錯啦那中選會最後會做審查嗎當然我們依法我們要做審查那所以你們會有準或是不準的這個結果嗎是會有這樣的狀況會有這樣的狀況那什麼樣的狀況會這個公投會這個不成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
70.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
90.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們會依據公投法第二條第二項第三款立法院以及第四五條那相關的規定我們來委員會去審議是否符合這些規定好那所以就是說有六個公投最後會到中選會去做審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
108.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
如果都通過立法院的話立法院我看有可能啦六個都會通過啦那所以會送到立法院審查那所以這個中學院審查中學院審查之後也不一定最後是六個都會來公投就對了我不知道結果會是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
108.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
130.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那可是我之前有聽過這一個主委有提到說公投的數量的問題那主委的意思是說一個我們還可以來做處理超過兩個以上對於學務人員來講就是一個很大的負擔是這是一個客觀的現實那如果真的萬一六個公投的話那怎麼辦那 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
133.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
151.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那我們就只能夠硬著頭皮扛下來不是 那我的意思是說因為這不是我們能選擇的對 這不是你們能選擇那對 那但是這個我是說那會不會造成在選務上因為這個勢必造成選務的極大的困難會 那你預計這樣會開會不會開到12點之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
155.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
174.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
有一點我跟委員報告一下2022年也就是111年我們九合一地方選舉加修憲公投結果那一天只有一案開票開到11點40分才結束所以如果依照這個去估計的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
175.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
192.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
九合一加一案我們是毫無問題可以在當天就開完所有的票開到十一點多如果兩個案勢必就是要過十二點如果三個案的話大概就要一兩點如果四個案可能就是兩三點 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
193.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
218.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這是一個客觀的一個現實就是一個曾經發生過的事實 當你在推估有可能兩個案以上就會開到凌晨絕對過12點那這是數量的問題 因為你也沒辦法決定不過我就再請教一下諸位因為我看 鎮野黨準備通過這六個公投我認為有一些是違憲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
219.943 |
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232.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那有一些呢是修法就可以來做的我簡單來講就是說這個有一個就是死刑不需要一次決死刑不需要一次決的公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
233.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
249.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那可是呢我們這個憲法法庭的這個133年的憲判制第八號判決已經有提過啦各級的這個法院合議庭的法官判處死刑必須採取一致決嘛對不對那你如果這個公投的結果說不用採取一致決啊不是就違憲了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
253.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
268.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本會是公投的審議機關在公投案還沒有確定成立的時候也還沒有經過委員會的審議我們不便表達任何評論啦我是說這個是 就學理上來講嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
271.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
298.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
但是是就協理我平常如果沒有中選會主委的身份我可以跟你講三天三夜我現在不行對那我的意思是說這個違憲是不是屬於你們這個來來這個審查這個公投案是否最後會成立的一個要件違憲不是公投法所規定的一個過或不過的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
299.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
320.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
不是不是那所以說你可以通過一個違憲的公投嗎是否違憲要憲法法庭去判那我剛才講的啊這個要以自決這個是憲法法庭的這個113年這個憲八字號的判決啊那如果你過了一個跟這個憲法法庭的一個判決是是抵觸的一個公投那可以投下去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
322.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
350.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就這個部分來講我們審查的標準就是公投法第二條跟第四五條那標準是怎麼樣你可不可以稍微講一下立法院所提出的公投案是否符合重大政策的創制或覆決是否是重大政策的創制或覆決如果只是重大如果他是牽涉到立法原則的創制那顯然就不符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
350.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
374.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
公投法15條的規定那所以有可能會發生一個違憲的公投然後讓人民來公投那是一個想像中的一個狀況沒有啊 沒有想像中啊 這有可能會發生啊對不對 就是說在檔案上人事就通過了啊是違憲的一個判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
376.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
393.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這是只有憲法法庭可以解所以就是說這個公投可以最後可以如果可以投然後這個憲法法庭再判他違憲因為就只有憲法法庭可以來做最前衛的判決所以最後有可能就是這種結果就對了是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
394.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
421.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
就是說我們就照程序上來講嘛如果憲法法庭因為有人公投結果出來之後那有人去去去釋憲申請釋憲啊因為這個就是你跟你的這個憲法第八號判製就就就就抵觸了啊有可能就是這樣啊所以最後結果有可能投出來又是違憲就是就是有人申請釋憲大家就他就是說你這個公投違憲是否違憲因為我你我都不是大法官所以我們沒辦法決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
423.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
445.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以我的意思是說有可能會發生這種結果嗎?是不是?不曉得希望不會啦希望不會是說不會有公投還是說不會有違憲?不過在這裡的確會出現一個問題就是說憲法法庭所做的這些決定根據中選會上一次的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
448.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
470.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這是委員會的審查的確已經強烈暗示任何違反憲法法庭的判決的都不以成為公投的項目你說誰強烈暗示就是中選會的委員會的審查的時候對於上次的反會使的公投沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
471.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
491.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
整個中選會委員會當時的思考,已經有這樣的一個強烈的暗示好,那這是第一個齁,這還有六個,但是我趕快簡單講,因為我時間已經到了邊形公投也是啊,邊形公投它至少已經違反了這一個公民政治權利國際公約這兩公約啦,對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
494.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
501.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我不能對這個發表任何的評論因為我不適合公投可以限制人權嗎 可以剝奪人權嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
505.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
525.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
理論上不行不過我們的公投法沒有包括這一項這是未來可能貴院要修法的重點所以你也認為說公投不能去剝奪人民的這一個我當然認為啊但是它不是公投法所列的明定事項的這一個項目啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
525.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
543.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那所以你就認為說這個會有問題的我認為我們立法院應該未來修法重新考慮公投的項目是否不能違背人權那這個不在籍投票會不會有違反憲法相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
547.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
575.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
比如說違反直接投票的規定啊然後也違反這個憲法正義修條文這個要反國新式投票的這個權利啊因為我是中選會委員會的主席我不宜針對你所提的這個問題表示任何的立場或態度好那所以我接下來要再問啊就是說有些可以透過修法的啊比如說交通法緩專用啊反正立法院就可以修法通過嘛對不對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
578.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
588.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
看起來是啊看起來是嘛 對啊然後呢這個非屬非核家園已經也投過了好幾次了啦熱死的法治的話那其實也是可以透過修法嘛是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
589.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
615.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
是啊 也是所以我是覺得說這個當然有政治上面的一個目的性你我皆知但是我只是強調說有一些有違憲之餘有一些透過修法就可以用所以我是要減輕你們的負擔是 謝謝你那我們中選會只能依法行政好 那不過你也講出來就是說這個超過一案以上就會開到12點之後是是是好 謝謝 謝謝主委 謝謝主席 |