| IVOD_ID |
170500 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170500 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-5-19,35,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[2] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[2] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-16T09:46:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-16T09:57:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c57864e9296d477511ed41196eef3bfc1ac734a26d834dc4b699012f2e5216e5b5955a0c0d9861e65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱議瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:46:31 - 09:57:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查：
一、 行政院函請審議「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案。
二、 本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案。
三、 本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「強化國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例草案」案。
四、 本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例草案」案。(僅詢答)(以上各案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查)） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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我請一下國防部長好了請國防部部長好難得有機會在經濟委員會問到國防部我還不把握一下這個機會來部長這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.049 |
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51.138 |
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我很難得在經濟委員會可以來問國防部基本上我覺得我們今天排定的議程把這三個條例草案放在一起審然後放在經濟委員會主審我覺得這是一個非常奇怪的過去在立法院我擔任這麼久的立法委員我從來沒有遇過這樣的一個狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.021 |
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64.652 |
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部長您是學法的出身的齁您看一下這三個法案的條文我只看條文我先看條文第一個行政院版是國防自主無人載具採購特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
68.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
91.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
國民黨版叫做國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例民眾黨是強化國防自主及無人機產業發展條例單單三個法案名稱就完全不相同基本精神也完全不相同對不對部長您同意我的看法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.645 |
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110.892 |
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基本精神也就不一樣我想就我們國防部的部分我們就是很特定的標定我們採購的內容你是一個為了特定的無人載具所以要有一個採購所以產業發展這一塊並不在你國防部的主要主責範圍之內產業發展無人機的無人載具的產業發展是在經濟部主責所以剛剛一直在講產業發展要協助升級國防產業需要到什麼樣的程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
122.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
142.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
經濟部就應該要去協助廠商做產業的升級做無人載具的升級是不是這樣這個應該是最重要的一個基本精神嘛經濟部也有相關的計畫在推動經濟部呢大概是花五年的時間大概會有四百多億的這樣的一個協助產業發展無人載具產業發展的這樣的一個計畫我看了一下國民黨版的這個法案內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
153.91 |
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164.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
剛剛這個賴思寶委員也好或者是國民黨代表國民黨黨團來做提案說明的林佩祥委員也好他們提到的部分其實我聽不太懂國民黨版的第二條第二條的條文寫到本條例的主管機關是經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
172.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
200.47 |
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國防自主的採購主管機關是經濟部然後呢又寫本條例所稱主辦機關是經濟部跟國防部然後又說本條例涉及國防採購研發補助等等由主管機關會同國防部及有關主管機關共同辦理一個主管機關會同國防部及有關主管機關共同辦理這個法律文字上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
201.511 |
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209.201 |
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您學法的法律文字上面看起來是不是有很大的問題國防自主的採購主管機關是經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
213.302 |
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236.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這顛覆了我對於政府不管是採購法也好或是是政府對於所有的預算編列也好顛覆了我對他們所有的制度的想像來 部長您回答一下我想我們看到國民黨有一個在科技發展後面有一個叫做採購這個兩個字在他的條例裡面嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
254.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那關於國防的這個採購的部分我們認為如果涉及到國防軍事這個部分的話應該是要由國防部為主管機關是啊那這是第一點 第二點就是說採購的標的它既然寫採購條例那到底要採購是什麼事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
280.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
標的物是什麼 這個應該是國防部要決定嘛這個標的物採購的標的物不會是經濟部來決定嘛國防部才理解這個我們的作戰需求所以這個法 這個法令 這個條例放在經濟委員會來主審 那就很奇怪好 再講到無人載具 我們講的都是無人載具喔結果民眾黨的版本只有寫無人機喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
282.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
308.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以它只發展會飛的那你們還有要談到什麼自殺的無人艇啊機器狗啊等等所有這些東西都不在民眾黨黨團的這個版本裡面喔它只發展天上飛的無人機喔其他的無人載具是沒有在它的發展條例裡面的喔那這個也把它放進來這裡一併來審我也覺得這個很奇怪好 預算的額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
333.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
軍事採購的預算依照我的了解軍事採購預算不會是我一年編400億然後我今年把400億花掉今年去買然後明年呢再編400億再來買軍事預算應該不會是這樣吧你們軍事的訂單都會是長期的訂單嘛建造一個符合你們需要的無人載具不會是我今年有400億買400億明年有400億再買400億不會是這樣吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
338.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
365.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我想這裡面有幾個問題第一個當然就是說立法院自己要通過一個條例然後來要求行政機關要怎麼編列預算然後要編多少的預算我想跟立法跟行政的權力不立原則是抵觸的我想立法機關是就是審預算不能夠去指導行政院如何編預算這是第一個 第二個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
366.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
391.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
在他的第16條裡面那個400億的那個項目呢他都混在一起他包括軍用無人載具的採購然後也包括軍民公用測試場域也包括產業聚落發展跟中小企業特別服務等等他把這個400億混在一起了但是我們希望由國安部主導的就國安部主管機關那麼經濟部主導就經濟部主管機關這兩個混在一起然後又要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
391.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
419.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
行政要如何編列 我想這樣子的一個一個作為會讓這個行政院包括國防部跟經濟部都會有治安來行之處而且這個條例如果按照這樣的400億到底哪些算在400億裡面那400億送過來到立法院之後那立法院自己通過的預算如果他刪掉任何一毛錢 那是不是就違法了是啊 部長所以你點到的重點啦還有另外一個部分就是說他放在公務預算裡頭每年審查對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
420.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
423.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
今年115年的國家的總預算到現在還沒過 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
424.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
452.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果未來如果未來國防部把這個發展無人載具的預算編入公務預算你要什麼時候開始編然後什麼時候會過115年的現在已經7月7月十幾號7月快20號了今年115年的預算都還沒過那很快的明年度的預算要送進立法院了那我不知道明年度的預算什麼時候過那這個預算沒過的時候你的無人載具要不要買你要不要跟國外採購要不要訂購如何訂購 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
454.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
465.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這不是一個很大的問題耶過去我通常不太同意翁小玲委員的看法但是翁小玲委員她曾經在在這個教育委員會她說立委的職責是審預算不是編預算耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
467.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
492.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他講過幾千幾萬句的話我只同意他這一句欸立法委員的職責是審預算不是編預算欸然後你把一些完全不相干的不搭嘎的法令國防採購跟產業發展把它放在一併審理然後由主管機關變成經濟部主管機關由國防部變成經濟部荒謬至極可笑至極啊那我不知道國民黨團提出這個版本是要給誰看 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
494.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
522.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
是要給誰看 他們一直講說國內的無人機業者有幾百家然後呢 你只編了400億的預算幾百家的業者不是每一個都做軍用吧幾百家的業者不是每一個他的規格都能符合你國防的採購吧那你的400億是幾百家業者每一家雨露均沾每一個分一點點 分個幾千萬嗎這也不符合國防採購的需求嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
523.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
546.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
以國際經驗來看部長我想這個您一定最清楚的美英法德日韓澳所有國家對於無人機的採購無人載具的採購都是以他們的國防部為主管機關為主責單位獨獨台灣非常的特別以經濟部來當主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
551.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
580.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
真的是會笑掉人家的大牙這兩位委員吼有的這樣沒特色 又走沒尾聲啦該產業發展的 我贊成產業發展經濟部要負起全責全力協助國內的無人載具的業者全力升級但是該國防採購面對到重要的國家安全的事情你不能獲悉 你不能胡搞亂搞啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
583.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
605.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
然後一堆說是博士 說是教授連基本的法條 基本的概念 基本的邏輯都搞不清楚在立法院 現在叫經濟委員會來審國防採購然後來訂定一個莫名其妙的特別條例所以部長 我想在這個部分上面 國軍需要什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
606.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
632.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
國家的產業要引導他們往哪一個方向去這個是國防部跟經濟部應該共同去合作但是我是全力支持你們行政院提出來的國防採購特別無人載具的特別條例我希望在國家安全的這一塊上面大家都能夠全力的支持不要說面對到外賓或者是去美國拜訪的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
634.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
653.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
美國人直接問你為什麼不支持國防採購國民黨的委員每個都講得頭頭是道啊每個人都講說他們支持國家安全啊他們支持國防啊回到立法院來完全不是那麼一回事啊部長我想這個你應該很清楚啊這是台灣現在最大的危機啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
654.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
679.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
全世界都在看台灣人怎麼樣保護台灣人台灣人對於自己的國防預算對於國防的防衛系統台灣人到底要怎麼做啊而國會就站在第一線啊所以我想這一點也要請國防部這個我們會是全力支持啦但是面對到這麼荒謬的法案審查我想就免了謝謝好 謝謝邱委員 委員 |