| IVOD_ID |
170484 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170484 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-20-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-15T12:06:09+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-15T12:14:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:54 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f097d2073855cd22f54b4de8a18c79aea7dabc8f267c39f72137d5325ab659884a3685e9cc37c4ee5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
許忠信 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:06:09 - 12:14:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請審計部陳審計長瑞敏、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、衛生福利部石部長崇良、教育部鄭部長英耀就「政府食品安全管理機制、食安五環與校園食安預算執行及審核結果」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【7月15日及16日兩天一次會】） |
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市長市長好委員好昨天行政院長的專案報告非常的累人所以我們教育部正部長以及我們衛務部時部長今天都請假沒有他時部長在樓下八樓的委員會那麼我們現場我從一開始做到結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
55.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我只喝一杯咖啡提神真的很累人 我在學習所以本席對這個東西外行但是我要來根據我們立法委員最重要的我們五環 未環的五環一年的預算一一四年四七點多一點點一那麼一一五年也是四七點 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
75.551 |
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五億多我們一年這麼多錢效用何在今天是我要來跟各位報告如何來尊潔如何來增效我們用這個所謂的污染油的事件來做例子這種高風險的產品為例請問次長我們那些回收的所謂毒油做什麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
82.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
106.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們現在都要求他們回來,就是回收,回收之後他們後續至於他們要做什麼樣的處理,他當然不能再做食品啊?當然,我們要監督,不能再流到我們的食品的體系。以英國人的立場,英國人認為這是一個地球的資源,他不可能把它銷毀的,他會把它做燃料。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
125.464 |
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加以充分的應用這就是一個有效能的政府應該做到的程度而我們很顯然政府在這裡沒有做到我們五環裡面我只提出三環出來談因為中央與地方這個合作查緝這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
127.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
156.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
根據昨天的專案報告立法委員國民黨的推給中央民進黨的推給台中所以我不談啦 我不談這種東西我今天來立法院的時間很珍貴我希望把我所知道的盡量的來跟各位做報告我講話媒體不會報藍也不報 綠也不報但是我只要能夠跟你做報告我就覺得非常的值得 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
157.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
184.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
第一環源頭管理就國內的源頭我們農委會一年花了22億做了產品履歷驗證檢驗行銷推廣但是我們農委會對地理標示權這種Geographical Interaction非常重要的提升產品的生育品質的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
186.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
208.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
卻不了解所以22億其實沒有多少效用那麼我們國外進來的源頭我們今天的沈紀長陳審紀長的報告寫得非常好把很多問題點都點出來我讀了以後非常的高興他說邊境的查驗人力不足而且人員留不住 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
211.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
233.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以行政院長他昨天提到要強化源頭的檢驗那如何來達到這個做法其實在國際上這種國際貿易都用裝船潛檢查BSI就可以從源頭在外國就擋住有問題的產品而我們的政府機關卻對這種機制國際貿易上流行的機制分不清 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
240.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
267.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
第二個我們以個人的名義分批業者以個人名義分批進口進來轉售的我們陳審計長說欠缺邊境的管理機制我們如何透過網路資訊來建立管理機制我這個能不能讓我多幾分鐘我寫了一個早上的東西讓我那個禁訴我禁訴我禁訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
270.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
284.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
第二環我們的產自銷的聯我們以中聯跟泰山一個是上游一個是中游我們部分業者為落實主動的通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
286.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
313.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個因為我們沒有善用這些產油的工會工會自律然後由工會去申請團體商標這些業者如果不自律的剔除工會沒辦法做這個貿易做這個交易這是英國人是這樣做的第二個我們通報要件跟通報的實現是行政院長認為要建立的您今天早上的報告也有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
315.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
341.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
通報如果只是公司的負責人他會演繹但是通報義務人如果是有職長的受僱人他為了自保他會去通報我們都把他稱為是吹哨子其實他不是吹哨子他是他有義務在保險法上這種公司的受僱人如果知道保險事故發生他也有告知義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
342.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
356.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以我們行政院在這裡專業不足那麼我們現在要製程以及我們的製程方法基準以及如果製程改變要經過審核 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
358.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
373.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我要提醒行政院很多高技術的製程它都是Process它都是營業秘密我們在要求它建立基準以及揭露的時候不能侵害他們的營業秘密權我們前一陣子這一兩個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
376.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
397.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
行政院長非常的雷厲風行但是我要在這裡扮演一個輔導長的角色我們對企業的需求他們的智慧財產權的保護還是要兼顧然後我們的稽查的檢驗要建立第三方驗證我快要結束這個第三方驗證誰互惠次長您知道要誰互惠政府互惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
402.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
428.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們現在廠商本來就要自主做檢驗這是我們依法有要求的他自己檢驗他現在是第三方驗證送外投驗證誰互惠國內有第三方檢驗機構業者互惠還是政府互惠業者互惠那業者互惠會變成受驗證的機構他有義務衝突一方面要告訴政府一方面要進到他受認人 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
432.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
455.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以各位我們在這裡可以發展證明標章這個制度讓這個驗證業者他有證明標章他除了收取驗證的報酬以外他的標章權值得他去維護他就自然的會去落實他的驗證的工作驗證的機構他們都有要定期拿保護套謝謝我們就結束這個是我讀書二十幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
459.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
461.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
累積下來可以運用到本案的 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-07-15T12:06:09+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-07-15T12:06:11.276000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
主席、各位同仁，有請林靜儀次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0.077 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-07-15T12:06:11.276000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-07-15T12:06:13.552000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請林次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-07-15T12:06:13.552000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-07-15T12:06:13.552000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
次長好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
林次長靜儀 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-07-15T12:06:13.913000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-07-15T12:06:14.053000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-07-15T12:06:15.394000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-07-15T12:06:25.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
昨天行政院長的專案報告非常的累人，所以教育部鄭部長以及衛福部石部長今天都請假。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.919 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
林次長靜儀 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-07-15T12:06:26.321000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-07-15T12:06:29.324000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
沒有，石部長在樓下8樓的委員會。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-07-15T12:06:29.584000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-07-15T12:07:11.119000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
我在現場從一開始坐到結束，我只喝一杯咖啡提神，真的很累人，我在學習，因為本席對這個東西是外行，但是我要根據立法委員最重要的……關於食安五環一年的預算，在114年是四十七億多一點點，115年也是四十七點五億多，我們一年這麼多錢的效用何在？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.842 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-07-15T12:07:11.620000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-07-15T12:07:23.570000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
今天我要來跟各位報告如何撙節、如何增效，我們用所謂的污染油事件來做例子，以這種高風險的產品為例。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.932 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-07-15T12:07:23.590000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-07-15T12:07:24.531000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
請問次長，那些回收的毒油做什麼用？ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
林次長靜儀 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-07-15T12:07:31.677000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-07-15T12:07:39.139000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
我們現在都要求回收，回收之後，至於後續要做什麼樣的處理，當然不能再做食品。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.939 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-07-15T12:07:40.419000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-07-15T12:07:40.419000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
那當然！ |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-07-15T12:07:42+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-07-15T12:07:45.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
我們要監督，不能再流到我們的食品體系。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-07-15T12:07:47.241000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-07-15T12:08:04.158000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
以英國人的立場，英國人認為這是一個地球的資源，不可能把它銷毀，他們會把它做為燃料，加以充分應用，這就是一個有效能的政府應該做到的程度，很顯然我們政府在這裡沒有做到。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-07-15T12:08:06.460000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-07-15T12:08:29.273000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
在五環裡面我只提三環出來談，針對中央與地方合作查緝，根據昨天的專案報告，國民黨的立法委員推給中央，民進黨的推給臺中，所以我不談這種東西。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.887 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-07-15T12:08:30.134000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-07-15T12:08:45.261000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
我今天來立法院的時間很珍貴，我希望把我所知道的儘量跟各位報告，我講話媒體不會報，藍也不報，綠也不報，但是我只要能夠跟你報告，我就覺得非常的值得。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.985 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
林次長靜儀 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-07-15T12:08:45.261000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-07-15T12:08:46.940000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
不敢，請委員指導。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-07-15T12:08:46.940000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-07-15T12:08:49.441000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
第一環，源頭管理。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-07-15T12:08:50.361000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-07-15T12:09:19.089000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
就國內的源頭，農委會一年花了22億，做了產品履歷、驗證、檢驗、行銷推廣，但是農委會對地理標示權（geographical indication）這種非常重要提升產品聲譽品質的機制卻不了解，所以22億其實沒有多少效用。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.903 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-07-15T12:09:21.271000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-07-15T12:09:37.946000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
關於國外進來的源頭，今天陳審計長的報告寫得非常好，把很多問題點都點出來，我讀了以後非常高興，他說邊境的查驗人力不足，而且人員留不住。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-07-15T12:09:40.397000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-07-15T12:09:49.885000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
所以行政院長昨天提到要強化源頭的檢驗，那如何達到這個做法？ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-07-15T12:09:50.966000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-07-15T12:10:02.456000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
其實在國際上這種國際貿易都用裝船前檢查（PSI），就可以從源頭在外國就擋住有問題的產品，而我們的政府機關卻對這種國際貿易上流行的機制「わかりません」。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-07-15T12:10:09.506000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-07-15T12:10:26.612000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
第二個，對於業者以個人名義分批進口進來轉售的，陳審計長說欠缺邊境的管理機制，我們如何透過網路資訊來建立管理機制？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.962 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-07-15T12:10:29.373000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-07-15T12:10:32.114000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
召委，能不能讓我多幾分鐘？ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-07-15T12:10:32.114000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-07-15T12:10:35.096000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
我寫了一個早上的東西，讓我…… |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-07-15T12:10:35.096000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-07-15T12:10:37.191500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
儘速，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-07-15T12:10:37.191500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-07-15T12:10:39.287000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
好，我儘速。 |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.25 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-07-15T12:10:39.287000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-07-15T12:10:42.048000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
第二環，產製銷鏈。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-07-15T12:10:44.830000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-07-15T12:11:12.954000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
中聯跟泰山一個是上游、一個是中游，部分業者未落實主動通報，因為我們沒有善用這些產油的公會，公會自律，再由公會去申請團體商標，這些業者如果不自律的就從公會剔除，沒辦法做這項貿易、做這個交易，英國人是這樣做的。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.892 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-07-15T12:11:16.197000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-07-15T12:11:53.923000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
其次，通報要件跟通報時限是行政院長認為要建立的，您今天早上的報告也有提到，如果只是由公司負責人通報，他會隱匿，但是通報義務人如果是有職掌的受僱人，他為了自保就會去通報，我們都把他稱為是吹哨者，其實他不是吹哨者，只是他有義務，在保險法上，這種公司受僱人如果知道有保險事故發生，他有告知義務，所以行政院在這裡專業不足。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-07-15T12:11:56.905000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-07-15T12:12:21.918000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
再來是製程管制方法及基準，如果製程改變要經過審核，我要提醒行政院，很多高技術的製程都是營業秘密，我們在要求他建立基準以及揭露的時候，不能侵害他們的營業秘密權。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.904 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-07-15T12:12:22.319000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-07-15T12:12:37.979000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
這一、兩個禮拜行政院長非常的雷厲風行，但是我要在這裡扮演一個輔導長的角色，我們對企業的需求，他們的智慧財產權的保護還是要兼顧。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-07-15T12:12:37.979000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-07-15T12:12:44.685000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
然後我們的稽查檢驗要建立第三方驗證，這個第三方驗證由誰付費？ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.893 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-07-15T12:12:44.946000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-07-15T12:12:46.047000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
次長，您知道要由誰付費？ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.7 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-07-15T12:12:46.167000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-07-15T12:12:46.187000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
政府付費？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-07-15T12:12:46.187000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-07-15T12:12:49.782500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
還是業者付費？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
林次長靜儀 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-07-15T12:12:49.782500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-07-15T12:12:53.378000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
現在廠商本來就要自主檢驗，這是我們依法有要求的。 |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.091 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
林次長靜儀 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-07-15T12:12:53.378000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-07-15T12:12:55.959000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
廠商本來就要自主做檢驗，這是依法要求的。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-07-15T12:12:56.759000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-07-15T12:12:59.441000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
它要自主檢驗，現在是第三方驗證？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.733 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-07-15T12:12:59.441000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:00.261000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
送外部驗證，誰付費？ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.625 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
林次長靜儀 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-07-15T12:13:02.722000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:05.264000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
國內的，國內有第三方檢驗機構。 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.769 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-07-15T12:13:05.264000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:07.425000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
是業者付費還是政府付費？業者。 |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.615 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-07-15T12:13:09.466000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:09.466000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
業者付費。對。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.4 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-07-15T12:13:11.046000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:17.730000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
業者付費會變成受驗證的機構有義務衝突，一方面要告知政府，一方面要盡到受任人的義務，變成義務衝突。 |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.636 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-07-15T12:13:17.730000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:21.330000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
謝謝，請儘速結束今天的質詢，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-07-15T12:13:21.330000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:40.994000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
所以各位，我們在這裡可以發展「證明標章」制度，讓驗證業者持有證明標章，它除了收取驗證的報酬以外，它的標章權值得去維護，驗證業者自然就會落實驗證的工作。 |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.881 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
林次長靜儀 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-07-15T12:13:42.274000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:43.614000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
驗證的機構他們都要定期……認證。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-07-15T12:13:44.334000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:44.374000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
謝謝，請儘速結束。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.571 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-07-15T12:13:44.574000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:50.654000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
這是我讀書二十幾年累積下來可以運用到本案的部分，謝謝召委給我時間把它講完。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
林次長靜儀 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-07-15T12:13:51.154000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:52.296857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-07-15T12:13:52.596857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:56.596857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
謝謝，我們結束今天許委員的質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-07-15T12:13:56.896857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-07-15T12:13:59.468286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
接下來請洪孟楷委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0 |
| gazette.lineno |
989 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
許委員忠信：（12時6分）主席、各位同仁，有請林靜儀次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請林次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
許委員忠信：次長好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
林次長靜儀：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
許委員忠信：昨天行政院長的專案報告非常的累人，所以教育部鄭部長以及衛福部石部長今天都請假。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
林次長靜儀：沒有，石部長在樓下8樓的委員會。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
許委員忠信：我在現場從一開始坐到結束，我只喝一杯咖啡提神，真的很累人，我在學習，因為本席對這個東西是外行，但是我要根據立法委員最重要的……關於食安五環一年的預算，在114年是四十七億多一點點，115年也是四十七點五億多，我們一年這麼多錢的效用何在？今天我要來跟各位報告如何撙節、如何增效，我們用所謂的污染油事件來做例子，以這種高風險的產品為例。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][1] |
請問次長，那些回收的毒油做什麼用？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
林次長靜儀：我們現在都要求回收，回收之後，至於後續要做什麼樣的處理，當然不能再做食品。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
許委員忠信：那當然！我們要監督，不能再流到我們的食品體系。以英國人的立場，英國人認為這是一個地球的資源，不可能把它銷毀，他們會把它做為燃料，加以充分應用，這就是一個有效能的政府應該做到的程度，很顯然我們政府在這裡沒有做到。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][1] |
在五環裡面我只提三環出來談，針對中央與地方合作查緝，根據昨天的專案報告，國民黨的立法委員推給中央，民進黨的推給臺中，所以我不談這種東西。我今天來立法院的時間很珍貴，我希望把我所知道的儘量跟各位報告，我講話媒體不會報，藍也不報，綠也不報，但是我只要能夠跟你報告，我就覺得非常的值得。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
林次長靜儀：不敢，請委員指導。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
許委員忠信：第一環，源頭管理。就國內的源頭，農委會一年花了22億，做了產品履歷、驗證、檢驗、行銷推廣，但是農委會對地理標示權（geographical indication）這種非常重要提升產品聲譽品質的機制卻不了解，所以22億其實沒有多少效用。關於國外進來的源頭，今天陳審計長的報告寫得非常好，把很多問題點都點出來，我讀了以後非常高興，他說邊境的查驗人力不足，而且人員留不住。所以行政院長昨天提到要強化源頭的檢驗，那如何達到這個做法？其實在國際上這種國際貿易都用裝船前檢查（PSI），就可以從源頭在外國就擋住有問題的產品，而我們的政府機關卻對這種國際貿易上流行的機制「わかりません」。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][1] |
第二個，對於業者以個人名義分批進口進來轉售的，陳審計長說欠缺邊境的管理機制，我們如何透過網路資訊來建立管理機制？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][2] |
召委，能不能讓我多幾分鐘？我寫了一個早上的東西，讓我…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
主席：儘速，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
許委員忠信：好，我儘速。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][1] |
第二環，產製銷鏈。中聯跟泰山一個是上游、一個是中游，部分業者未落實主動通報，因為我們沒有善用這些產油的公會，公會自律，再由公會去申請團體商標，這些業者如果不自律的就從公會剔除，沒辦法做這項貿易、做這個交易，英國人是這樣做的。其次，通報要件跟通報時限是行政院長認為要建立的，您今天早上的報告也有提到，如果只是由公司負責人通報，他會隱匿，但是通報義務人如果是有職掌的受僱人，他為了自保就會去通報，我們都把他稱為是吹哨者，其實他不是吹哨者，只是他有義務，在保險法上，這種公司受僱人如果知道有保險事故發生，他有告知義務，所以行政院在這裡專業不足。再來是製程管制方法及基準，如果製程改變要經過審核，我要提醒行政院，很多高技術的製程都是營業秘密，我們在要求他建立基準以及揭露的時候，不能侵害他們的營業秘密權。這一、兩個禮拜行政院長非常的雷厲風行，但是我要在這裡扮演一個輔導長的角色，我們對企業的需求，他們的智慧財產權的保護還是要兼顧。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][2] |
然後我們的稽查檢驗要建立第三方驗證，這個第三方驗證由誰付費？次長，您知道要由誰付費？政府付費？還是業者付費？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
林次長靜儀：現在廠商本來就要自主檢驗，這是我們依法有要求的。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
林次長靜儀：廠商本來就要自主做檢驗，這是依法要求的。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
許委員忠信：它要自主檢驗，現在是第三方驗證？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
林次長靜儀：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
許委員忠信：送外部驗證，誰付費？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
林次長靜儀：國內的，國內有第三方檢驗機構。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
許委員忠信：是業者付費還是政府付費？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
林次長靜儀：業者。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
許委員忠信：業者付費。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
林次長靜儀：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
許委員忠信：業者付費會變成受驗證的機構有義務衝突，一方面要告知政府，一方面要盡到受任人的義務，變成義務衝突。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
主席：謝謝，請儘速結束今天的質詢，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
許委員忠信：所以各位，我們在這裡可以發展「證明標章」制度，讓驗證業者持有證明標章，它除了收取驗證的報酬以外，它的標章權值得去維護，驗證業者自然就會落實驗證的工作。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
林次長靜儀：驗證的機構他們都要定期……認證。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
主席：謝謝，請儘速結束。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
許委員忠信：這是我讀書二十幾年累積下來可以運用到本案的部分，謝謝召委給我時間把它講完。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
林次長靜儀：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
主席：謝謝，我們結束今天許委員的質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][1] |
接下來請洪孟楷委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
426 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-5-20-22 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
劉書彬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
許忠信 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
357 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2026-07-15 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1156302 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1156302_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第22次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請審計部陳審計長瑞敏、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、衛生福利部石部長崇良、教育部鄭部
長英耀就「政府食品安全管理機制、食安五環與校園食安預算執行及審核結果」進行專題報告，
並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1156302_00004 |