| IVOD_ID |
170397 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170397 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-20-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-09T09:40:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-09T09:50:57+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/819c86070d9120f7681354a7fa3cf22cc6cfcebe9e65517088a3391fde028545642409915d7b18685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴惠員 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:40:17 - 09:50:57 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「股市、通膨、匯率與房市多重風險中，中央銀行中長期因應策略與政策工具」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【7月8日及9日兩天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席 那個請央行總裁請總裁總裁早安 早安 早那個今天這份那個就是我們央行的報告那個總裁有從頭看到尾嗎是你看了嘛 對你看了感覺怎麼樣 寫得很好還是認為就是說怎麼跟常態性寫的都一樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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我想總裁在這裡我看到了央行的報告我自己個人看到兩個核心的一個盲點這個報告我覺得還是跟之前央行的一個報告一樣你的通盤指數其實嚴重的失真那你就是靠政策的一個包裝包起來了那你看到你的報告跟上半年CPEI 1.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.678 |
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那這一個歸功於就是油電動漲跟你的稅的一個負減增這個好像形容就是把那個穩定物價的一個法定責任外包給行政部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
76.596 |
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93.528 |
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掩飾了政策退場以後的真實的一個物價的壓力況且你也忽視了資本市場的一個共波的一個動向那你在這個報告裡頭你把通膨把股市把房價把匯市切割成獨立的一個區塊去探討 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.578 |
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122.816 |
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你沒有看到我們現有的這個社會裡頭我們的股市漲得這麼厲害不管是四代同堂還是六代同堂大家借錢去炒股票獲利然後去買房然後竟然是用自己的信用貸款然後去買車這樣的一個交叉感染的風險然後把股市的信用擴張到監理責任全部推給金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
126.238 |
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147.351 |
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是這個報告有一點我不再提我抱歉 我的報告讓委員有這樣的感覺我也總覺得是有一點抱歉不過第一點 你就說我們把它推給政府部門在通膨的部分不過我跟委員報告事實上要解決通膨有兩個因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
154.435 |
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第一個就是說是cost push就是說是供給面的就是說像油價來的時候油價漲的時候導致供給面的cost push這個叫cost push另外一個是demand pull |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
169.97 |
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裡面的pull就是說你的消費啦什麼的投資啦消費啦這些國內的消費非常的非常的熱絡導致呢你的通膨壓力所以就要分成兩種那第一種呢就是說cost push的時候呢基本上用中央銀行的這個利率政策呢是沒有效果的是沒有效的所以沒有效果的所以呢也就是說必須要cost push的時候呢就必須要供給面的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
199.429 |
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那供給面的措施就是政府現在所做的所以這個不是說我們中安院把通膨的問題全部推給也就是說造成通膨的因素如果我們從能源的政策我們來看在你報告裡頭你特別有提到了就是進口能源的價格在今年的年增率是44.79% |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
225.592 |
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238.451 |
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那也這個是你就是強調說這個是政府抑制能源價格的一個政策可是你看到了你六月份你六月份的能源的CPI年增率是13.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
240.954 |
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259.242 |
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所以我想再請教 請教就是說總裁六月的進口的物價的廉政利你看喔 這個是升沒有跌喔然後政府的供給面的措施 我們那個七大措施你看 油價雙緩 不是雙漲喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.124 |
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那甚至我們的啞鈴是最低價的一個上限你的專案的一個環站吸收至少是60%的一個漲幅啊那你關鍵的原物料那你這個稅減增延長到9月底你看又是一個很大的一個幅率喔那你的柴油 汽油 貨物 稅然後減增的幅度擴大到50% |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
308.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
瓦斯桶的那個貨物稅4月起開始減增50%等於是你每一桶你減了6.9塊錢那你4月到7月的民生天然物價天然氣還有你的桶裝瓦斯價格不變4月到9月的時候你的電價動漲那你的大眾運輸的票價動漲了6個月計程車油價的一個補助加碼到15000塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
316.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
339.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那你所有的民生商品的物價你加強去監測你要緩緩囤積囤漲這個有沒有粉飾太平沒有 我覺得沒有這個確實如果說政府不這樣子做的時候呢會全部它會整個就像我們的這個第二頁這邊所講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
340.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
345.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
它整個會波及到所有的產業去喔整個市場去喔那這個的話呢好那通膨呢如果說通膨一高漲的時候呢那中央銀行呢因為通膨高漲了以後呢中央銀行要用我們的利率政策在把它升息的時候呢那這個不得了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
364.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
369.83 |
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那這個不得了這個就是說為什麼為什麼在俄烏戰爭之後美國的那個美國的物價為什麼會跳的那麼高後來呢他整個要把他讓他下來的時候呢非常非常的困難你看到現在為止呢他還是三點多所以你覺得還是這個非常的不得了你覺得還是繼續要混世的讓他完戰啊那如果說政府不這樣子做的話所以呢我們不是這個不是混世太平啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
394.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
406.764 |
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第二個我們要另外一個我們必須要再考慮到就是說假設假設你的財政負擔你沒辦法去承受的時候呢那你只好放棄 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
408.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
423.825 |
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你只好忘記很多國家都是這樣子就是說用很多國外的國家的一個案例然後你來告訴我們說你這樣子就是就是把他這個輸入性的通盤的壓力你是把他控制住的所以這個是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
426.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
454.958 |
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對啊這是對的如果說不是這樣的話好那我們接著就我們中央銀行好那你就讓它通膨那麼高那中央銀行就一定要升息啊那升息的時候不是就是說大家都接輸嗎總長我再請教你你一個選擇性信用的管制最近你覺得這個管制的成效怎麼樣可是你一定會講說你覺得還不錯可是房價的漲幅我們還是全球之首 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
457.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
466.449 |
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你的股市很熱啊,可是黃市很冷啊,這個不是一個健康的市場我剛剛呢,我現在就要回答剛剛你第一頁的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
478.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
504.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
總裁你聽我講完我跟你講齁這個冰火二重天最可憐的最後受傷的還是每個月用現金流的生活的這些人就是我們最基層的這些老百姓啊那你怎麼告訴我說你把這個世代同堂剛才我告訴你的就是說我從皇室借來我從皇室我把房子抵押了然後去借 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
505.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
517.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
借錢來放到股市去我把我的車子貸款然後去借到去投資股市這個問題我們要正視啊我們看到每一個人賺錢剛剛委員就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
522.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
526.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們通膨我們給就是說這個責任是政府的沒有事那現在呢你又把就是說股市呢這個我們就推給那個我們就推給金管會對啊你就推給金管會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
544.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
563.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我想中央銀行做事的態度不是推來推去的這是我們一貫的做法該我們處理的我們會我們處理那一樣的就是說股市一直以來我們在這邊也在講一直以來股市的主管機關就是金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
568.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
576.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個大家都認同了嘛但是它會涉及到信用的問題涉及到信用會有兩個問題第一個銀行的信用銀行放錢給大眾然後投資股市另外一個是券商提供投資股市所以也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
591.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
597.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
就金管會來講 我不是說推給他這兩個他都有責任我們中央銀行的責任是在於銀行過度銀行如果說過度給投資人炒股的話我們這邊也有提到所以中央銀行沒有完全把這個責任推出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
617.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
617.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
謝謝總裁 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-07-09T09:40:20.960000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-07-09T09:40:21.360000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席，請央行總裁。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-07-09T09:40:21.380000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-07-09T09:40:21.380000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請總裁。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-07-09T09:40:21.380000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-07-09T09:40:22.380000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
賴委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-07-09T09:40:21.400000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-07-09T09:40:21.580000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
總裁，早安。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-07-09T09:40:21.881000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-07-09T09:40:23.881000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
今天這份央行的報告總裁有從頭看到尾嗎？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-07-09T09:40:23.941000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-07-09T09:40:24.141000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
你看了嘛？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-07-09T09:40:24.141000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-07-09T09:40:24.342000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
你看了感覺怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-07-09T09:40:24.342000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-07-09T09:40:24.382000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
寫得很好？ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-07-09T09:40:24.462000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-07-09T09:40:24.902000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
還是認為怎麼跟常態性寫得都一樣嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-07-09T09:40:49.833000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-07-09T09:41:13.037000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
總裁，我看到央行的報告，我個人看到兩個核心盲點，這個報告我覺得還是跟之前央行的報告一樣，通膨指數嚴重失真，就是靠政策的包裝把它包起來了。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.952 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-07-09T09:41:14.357000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-07-09T09:41:42.282000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
你的報告將上半年CPI1.7%歸功於油電凍漲與稅負減徵，好像形同把穩定物價的法定責任外包給行政部門，掩飾了政策退場以後的真實物價壓力，況且也忽視了資本市場的共波動性。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-07-09T09:41:43.243000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-07-09T09:42:25.660000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
你在這個報告裡頭把通膨、股市、房價及匯市切割成獨立區塊去探討，沒有看到現有社會股市漲得這麼厲害，不管是「四貸同堂」還是「六貸同堂」，大家借錢去炒股票，把獲利拿去買房，然後把房貸拿去買股票；把車貸拿去做短期股票交易、再用信用貸款去買車，這樣的交叉感染風險，把股市信用擴張的監理責任全部推給金管會，我覺得我看到這個報告有點文不對題。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.755 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-07-09T09:42:26.881000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-07-09T09:42:27.021000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
那很抱歉！抱歉！ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.333 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-07-09T09:42:27.321000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-07-09T09:42:35.065000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
我的報告讓委員有這樣的感覺，我總覺得是有一點抱歉。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-07-09T09:42:36.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-07-09T09:43:27.523000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
不過，第一點，你說我們把通膨的部分推給政府部門，我跟委員報告，事實上要解決通膨有兩個因素，第一個就是cost-push，是供給面的，像油價漲的時候導致供給面的cost-push；另外一個是demand-pull，就是說消費、投資這些，國內消費非常、非常熱絡導致通膨壓力，所以就要分成兩種，第一種cost-push的時候基本上用中央銀行的利率政策是沒有效果的。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.969 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-07-09T09:43:27.623000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-07-09T09:43:28.224000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
是沒有效的！ |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-07-09T09:43:28.664000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-07-09T09:43:29.565000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
是沒有效果的。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-07-09T09:43:29.565000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-07-09T09:43:30.565000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
你也承認是沒有效的。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-07-09T09:43:29.725000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-07-09T09:43:40.773000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
所以cost-push的時候就必須要用供給面的措施，那供給面的措施就是政府現在所做的，所以這個不是說我們中央銀行把通膨問題全部推給……就是造成通膨的因素要…… |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.931 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-07-09T09:43:40.793000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-07-09T09:43:42.334000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
總裁，如果我們從能源的政策來看，在你的報告裡頭有特別提到進口能源的價格…… |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.879 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-07-09T09:43:42.334000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-07-09T09:43:43.334000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
對、對、對。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-07-09T09:43:42.414000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-07-09T09:44:09.382000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
今年的年增率是44.79%，你強調這個是政府抑制能源價格的政策。對啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-07-09T09:44:09.382000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-07-09T09:44:10.382000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
所以我們也是…… |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-07-09T09:44:09.542000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-07-09T09:44:36.222000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
可是6月份的能源CPI年增率是13.29%，所以我想再請教總裁，6月進口物價年增率是升，沒有跌，然後政府供給面的七大措施，包括油價雙緩漲，不是雙漲喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.887 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-07-09T09:44:41.004000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-07-09T09:45:45.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
我們是亞鄰最低價上限加上專案緩漲吸收至少60%的漲幅，關鍵原物料稅負減徵延長到9月底，又是一個很大的福利，柴油、汽油貨物稅減徵幅度擴大到50%，桶裝瓦斯的貨物稅4月起開始減徵50%，等於是每桶減了6.9塊錢，4月到7月的民生天然氣與桶裝瓦斯價格不變，4月到9月電價凍漲，大眾運輸票價凍漲6個月，計程車油價補助加碼到1萬5,000塊，所有民生商品物價加強監測，防範囤積漲價，這個有沒有粉飾太平？ |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.864 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-07-09T09:45:46.029000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-07-09T09:45:48.031000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
沒有，我覺得沒有。 |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-07-09T09:45:49.912000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-07-09T09:46:23.168000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
確實如果政府不這樣做的時候，全部就像我們第2頁所講的，整個會波及到所有產業、整個市場，如果通膨一高漲，中央銀行要用利率政策升息的時候，這個不得了，這就是在俄烏戰爭之後，美國的物價為什麼會跳得那麼高，後來他整個要讓它下來的時候非常非常困難，你看到現在為止，它還是三點多…… |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.975 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-07-09T09:46:23.188000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-07-09T09:46:25.029000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
所以這個非常不得了，你覺得還是要繼續粉飾太平，讓它緩漲？ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.68 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-07-09T09:46:25.529000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-07-09T09:46:26.790000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
如果政府不這樣做的話……所以我們不是粉飾太平。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-07-09T09:46:51.837000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-07-09T09:47:07.656000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
第二個，另外一個必須要再考慮到，假設財政負擔沒辦法承受的時候，那只好放棄，很多國家都是這樣子。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-07-09T09:47:08.737000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-07-09T09:47:20.385000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
所以有很多國家的案例，然後你告訴我們，你把輸入性通膨壓力控制住了。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-07-09T09:47:20.385000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-07-09T09:47:21.385000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
對、對、對。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-07-09T09:47:20.505000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-07-09T09:47:23.607000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
所以這個是對的？對啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-07-09T09:47:23.887000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-07-09T09:47:24.167000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
這是對的。 |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-07-09T09:47:24.308000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-07-09T09:47:36.772000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
如果不是這樣的話，好，就讓它通膨那麼高，那中央銀行就一定要升息，升息的時候不就是大家皆輸嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.976 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-07-09T09:47:36.772000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-07-09T09:47:44.995000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
總裁，我再請教你，有關選擇性信用管制，最近你覺得這個管制成效怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-07-09T09:47:45.635000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-07-09T09:47:51.938000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
你一定會講你覺得還不錯，可是房價的漲幅我們還是全球之首。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-07-09T09:47:51.938000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-07-09T09:47:54.720000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
對、對、對。 |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-07-09T09:47:54.720000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-07-09T09:48:00.426000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
房價沒有跌下來，股市很熱，可是房市很冷，這不是一個健康的市場，一邊像火爐，一邊像冰箱「冷吱吱」！ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.475 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-07-09T09:48:00.426000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-07-09T09:48:01.426000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
這樣冰火二重天很久了。 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-07-09T09:48:01.247000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-07-09T09:48:03.228000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
不過，這個股市，我現在要回答剛剛你第1頁的PowerPoint…… |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.429 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-07-09T09:48:15.320000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-07-09T09:48:28.692000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
總裁，你聽我講完，我跟你講，這個冰火二重天最可憐的、最後受傷的還是每個月用現金流生活的這些人，就是最基層的老百姓。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-07-09T09:48:29.893000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-07-09T09:48:52.009000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
你怎麼告訴我你把四貸同堂……剛才我告訴你的就是，我把房子抵押借錢放到股市，我把我的車子貸款拿去投資股市，這個問題我們要正視。對啦！有啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.883 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-07-09T09:48:52.929000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-07-09T09:48:53.970000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
我們看到每一個人都賺錢，可是當有一天…… |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.588 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-07-09T09:48:53.970000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-07-09T09:49:02.993000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
剛剛委員說，我們把通膨責任推給政府，中央銀行沒有事，現在你又說我們把股市推給金管會…… |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.737 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-07-09T09:49:02.993000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-07-09T09:49:03.754000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
對啊，你就推給金管會啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-07-09T09:49:03.754000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-07-09T09:49:23.214000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
你每一次都是這樣官方講法。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-07-09T09:49:23.214000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-07-09T09:49:30.296000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
不是，中央銀行的做事態度不是推來推去，這是我們一貫的做法，該我們處理的我們會處理。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.919 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-07-09T09:49:31.496000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-07-09T09:49:40.279000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
一樣的，股市一直以來，我們在這邊也在講，股市的主管機關就是金管會，對不對？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.879 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-07-09T09:49:45.061000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-07-09T09:50:10.019000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
這個大家都認同，但是它會涉及到信用的問題，涉及到信用會有兩個問題，第一個，銀行的信用，銀行放錢給大眾投資股市；另外一個是券商提供信用投資股市，也就是說，就金管會來講……我不是推給他，這兩個都有責任。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.977 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-07-09T09:50:10.039000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-07-09T09:50:14.362000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
而我們中央銀行的責任是在於，銀行如果過度放貸給投資人去炒股的話，這個部分我們會密切注意，我們這邊也有提到，所以中央銀行並沒有把責任全部推出去。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.697 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-07-09T09:50:14.362000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-07-09T09:50:24.449500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
總裁，最後請教你一個問題，當今國內的銀行跟房市與股市，各種授信之間有沒有交互連動的關係？ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-07-09T09:50:24.449500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-07-09T09:50:34.537000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
我從你的報告裡頭看起來，這些好像沒有連動的關係，是不是會後提供一個報告給本席，好不好？好。 |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
賴委員惠員 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-07-09T09:50:34.537000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-07-09T09:50:34.537000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
謝謝總裁。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
楊總裁金龍 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-07-09T09:50:35.037000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-07-09T09:50:37.037000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
謝謝委員的指教。 |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-07-09T09:50:37.337000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-07-09T09:50:41.337000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
謝謝，我們結束賴惠員委員的質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-07-09T09:50:41.637000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-07-09T09:50:44.208429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
接下來請林岱樺委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0 |
| gazette.lineno |
188 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員惠員：（9時40分）謝謝主席，請央行總裁。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請總裁。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
楊總裁金龍：賴委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
賴委員惠員：總裁，早安。今天這份央行的報告總裁有從頭看到尾嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
楊總裁金龍：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
賴委員惠員：你看了嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
賴委員惠員：你看了感覺怎麼樣？寫得很好？還是認為怎麼跟常態性寫得都一樣嗎？總裁，我看到央行的報告，我個人看到兩個核心盲點，這個報告我覺得還是跟之前央行的報告一樣，通膨指數嚴重失真，就是靠政策的包裝把它包起來了。你的報告將上半年CPI1.7%歸功於油電凍漲與稅負減徵，好像形同把穩定物價的法定責任外包給行政部門，掩飾了政策退場以後的真實物價壓力，況且也忽視了資本市場的共波動性。你在這個報告裡頭把通膨、股市、房價及匯市切割成獨立區塊去探討，沒有看到現有社會股市漲得這麼厲害，不管是「四貸同堂」還是「六貸同堂」，大家借錢去炒股票，把獲利拿去買房，然後把房貸拿去買股票；把車貸拿去做短期股票交易、再用信用貸款去買車，這樣的交叉感染風險，把股市信用擴張的監理責任全部推給金管會，我覺得我看到這個報告有點文不對題。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
楊總裁金龍：那很抱歉！抱歉！我的報告讓委員有這樣的感覺，我總覺得是有一點抱歉。不過，第一點，你說我們把通膨的部分推給政府部門，我跟委員報告，事實上要解決通膨有兩個因素，第一個就是cost-push，是供給面的，像油價漲的時候導致供給面的cost-push；另外一個是demand-pull，就是說消費、投資這些，國內消費非常、非常熱絡導致通膨壓力，所以就要分成兩種，第一種cost-push的時候基本上用中央銀行的利率政策是沒有效果的。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
賴委員惠員：是沒有效的！ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
楊總裁金龍：是沒有效果的。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員惠員：你也承認是沒有效的。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
楊總裁金龍：所以cost-push的時候就必須要用供給面的措施，那供給面的措施就是政府現在所做的，所以這個不是說我們中央銀行把通膨問題全部推給……就是造成通膨的因素要…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員惠員：總裁，如果我們從能源的政策來看，在你的報告裡頭有特別提到進口能源的價格…… |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對、對、對。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員惠員：今年的年增率是44.79%，你強調這個是政府抑制能源價格的政策。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對啊！所以我們也是…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員惠員：可是6月份的能源CPI年增率是13.29%，所以我想再請教總裁，6月進口物價年增率是升，沒有跌，然後政府供給面的七大措施，包括油價雙緩漲，不是雙漲喔！我們是亞鄰最低價上限加上專案緩漲吸收至少60%的漲幅，關鍵原物料稅負減徵延長到9月底，又是一個很大的福利，柴油、汽油貨物稅減徵幅度擴大到50%，桶裝瓦斯的貨物稅4月起開始減徵50%，等於是每桶減了6.9塊錢，4月到7月的民生天然氣與桶裝瓦斯價格不變，4月到9月電價凍漲，大眾運輸票價凍漲6個月，計程車油價補助加碼到1萬5,000塊，所有民生商品物價加強監測，防範囤積漲價，這個有沒有粉飾太平？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
楊總裁金龍：沒有，我覺得沒有。確實如果政府不這樣做的時候，全部就像我們第2頁所講的，整個會波及到所有產業、整個市場，如果通膨一高漲，中央銀行要用利率政策升息的時候，這個不得了，這就是在俄烏戰爭之後，美國的物價為什麼會跳得那麼高，後來他整個要讓它下來的時候非常非常困難，你看到現在為止，它還是三點多…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員惠員：所以這個非常不得了，你覺得還是要繼續粉飾太平，讓它緩漲？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
楊總裁金龍：如果政府不這樣做的話……所以我們不是粉飾太平。第二個，另外一個必須要再考慮到，假設財政負擔沒辦法承受的時候，那只好放棄，很多國家都是這樣子。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員惠員：所以有很多國家的案例，然後你告訴我們，你把輸入性通膨壓力控制住了。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對、對、對。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員惠員：所以這個是對的？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對啊！這是對的。如果不是這樣的話，好，就讓它通膨那麼高，那中央銀行就一定要升息，升息的時候不就是大家皆輸嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員惠員：總裁，我再請教你，有關選擇性信用管制，最近你覺得這個管制成效怎麼樣？你一定會講你覺得還不錯，可是房價的漲幅我們還是全球之首。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對、對、對。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員惠員：房價沒有跌下來，股市很熱，可是房市很冷，這不是一個健康的市場，一邊像火爐，一邊像冰箱「冷吱吱」！這樣冰火二重天很久了。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不過，這個股市，我現在要回答剛剛你第1頁的PowerPoint…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員惠員：總裁，你聽我講完，我跟你講，這個冰火二重天最可憐的、最後受傷的還是每個月用現金流生活的這些人，就是最基層的老百姓。你怎麼告訴我你把四貸同堂……剛才我告訴你的就是，我把房子抵押借錢放到股市，我把我的車子貸款拿去投資股市，這個問題我們要正視。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對啦！有啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員惠員：我們看到每一個人都賺錢，可是當有一天…… |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
楊總裁金龍：剛剛委員說，我們把通膨責任推給政府，中央銀行沒有事，現在你又說我們把股市推給金管會…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員惠員：對啊，你就推給金管會啊！你每一次都是這樣官方講法。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不是，中央銀行的做事態度不是推來推去，這是我們一貫的做法，該我們處理的我們會處理。一樣的，股市一直以來，我們在這邊也在講，股市的主管機關就是金管會，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
賴委員惠員：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
楊總裁金龍：這個大家都認同，但是它會涉及到信用的問題，涉及到信用會有兩個問題，第一個，銀行的信用，銀行放錢給大眾投資股市；另外一個是券商提供信用投資股市，也就是說，就金管會來講……我不是推給他，這兩個都有責任。而我們中央銀行的責任是在於，銀行如果過度放貸給投資人去炒股的話，這個部分我們會密切注意，我們這邊也有提到，所以中央銀行並沒有把責任全部推出去。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員惠員：總裁，最後請教你一個問題，當今國內的銀行跟房市與股市，各種授信之間有沒有交互連動的關係？我從你的報告裡頭看起來，這些好像沒有連動的關係，是不是會後提供一個報告給本席，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
楊總裁金龍：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
賴委員惠員：謝謝總裁。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
楊總裁金龍：謝謝委員的指教。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
主席：謝謝，我們結束賴惠員委員的質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][1] |
接下來請林岱樺委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
578 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-5-20-21 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
劉書彬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
洪毓祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
527 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2026-07-09 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1156102 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1156102_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「股市、通膨、匯率與房市多重風險中，中央銀行中長期因應策略與
政策工具」進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1156102_00003 |