| IVOD_ID |
170373 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170373 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-08T12:28:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-08T12:46:18+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:17 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c821077502e89ed8d84378c89d092fec882f477dd9ed03a6d74a78406a17fcd3ca4bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱鎮軍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:28:01 - 12:46:18 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
討論事項
審查
一、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
二、委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
三、委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。
四、委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
六、委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
七、委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。
八、委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。
九、委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
十、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。
十一、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
十二、委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。
十三、委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
十四、委員陳超明等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
十五、委員黃健豪等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
十六、委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
十七、委員王育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】
【討論事項第十七案，如經復議則不予審查】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
8.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
21.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
主席好 我先請防疫署請防疫署防檢署 防檢署余組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
35.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
59.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好,我請問一下,這個美國進口馬鈴薯是用新規定的DP什麼時候到台灣?呃...我原...我...你們都不知道啊?那你來幹嘛?我們今天就是...誰說我不能問這個啊?喔...沒有沒有我請教你什麼時候進來?呃...六月中 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
63.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
68.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那我請教 昨天他的院長當時有到現場去視察嗎他不是說在公開場合說這個邊境檢查要逐科檢查馬鈴薯有沒有發芽結果到現在第一批一貨進來的最該被用放大鏡檢視的時候他人在現場嗎 他也沒去 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
85.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
103.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
包圍也沒有對啊 院長說的自己逐科結果DEP進來他連影都沒看到這個一方面證明自己就是騙子一方面也順便證明民進黨政府在面對重大食安跟貿易政策就是口號治國欺騙人民那我再請食安辦 您請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
110.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
136.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
主任 食安辦當初成立的目的就是在重大食安事件發生時第一時間統合各部會應變我請問中聯油紙本評比事件食用署6月30日就知道油品有問題了為什麼從6月30到7月7號陳時中政委才召開第一次跨部會會議我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
138.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
162.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
一直都有在做相關的這一個跨部會的所以你是各自啟動嗎還是不是就是我們我們實案辦事會請教一下7月7號會議決定的事情衛福部下架教育部查學校法務部偵辦這些事情是不是各部會在7月7日之前就已經在做了有一些事情是 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
166.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
190.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
應該怎麼講我們隨時保持也就是沒有聯絡嘛對不對那這個會議就是為了發揮你們應該有的這個統整協調功能還是只是因為這個我們盧昭偉今天排案了之後你們應付昭偉才排的這個臨時過場不會我們其實各部會都在做政委的會議是聽取各部會報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
191.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
215.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你告訴我啦 食安辦成立十幾年了到現在才知道已知用火才知道重大食安事件要開跨部會議請問你這個辦公室到底是食安辦還是等通知辦我們都有在開跨部會的會議平常沒有事件發生我們也要開會也要常常去討論因為各部會你討論的結果都沒有結果嘛我們請這個江署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
226.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
235.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
按照你們對外釋放的資訊食藥署在6月30號知道中聯油脂的油品有問題那賴清德總統跟卓榮泰院長是什麼時候知道的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
237.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
255.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們針對我們6月30號知道7月1號知道我們其實在部裡面做統統處長也就是說這個中央政府我們各部會都是同一個時間知道的喔是這樣嗎我們就向上呈報希望讓部裡面知道知道之後7月3號賴總統去處長吃狗糧 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
260.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
276.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
7月4號郵品影響學校團善的業者然後嘉義部長鄭英耀去新竹輔選同場原本石部長要一起去的換經濟部長龔明星去幫一個候選人站台兩位在石岸事件都沒有他們都沒試錯嗎7月4號左邊台還跑去這個嘉義佈置看屠宰場回頭發言感謝我們參與委員爭取那7月6號 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
290.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
308.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
總統跟主任院長才對媒體發社群的這個天文表示對IU的這個關注啊這樣的補償安排在知道這個食安事件發生而且還在繼續延燒的情況下讓部會首長繼續輔選行程總統吃狗糧總院長看屠宰場這是在告訴國人人民的食安問題比豬狗都還不如嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
320.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
331.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我請你回去轉達下次重大食安這個發生的時候請總統把果糧放下請院長從屠宰場回來總統院院長昨天也說了他在7月3號 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
334.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
356.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
召集衛福部跟食藥署開會確認第二層下游廠商到底有多少家當時你們說一開始說224家後來說291家後來又變成257家到最後是360家也就是說左院長那天已經知道名單需要整理也知道這個事情會影響消費者知情權沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
358.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
384.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
跟委員做報告因為我們持續由地方各個衛生局協助匯報回來所以匯報時間我們用第一個時間把裡面的加速能夠讓持續累積之後確認下游的名單問題你們說沒有辦法第一時間掌握嗎那我請教一下現在的食品雲在重大食安事件裡面他到底能夠做到哪一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
393.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
417.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
跟委員說明因為這個我們當然食品雲會去追蹤他的這個要求要登錄的源頭啦那麼但是這個事情發生之後呢因為有他的第一層到第二層就是源頭的中聯到福壽福茂跟泰山那這些呢我們可以馬上就掌握但是接下來再往下的那麼這個就要透過這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
418.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
438.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我看到你們基本資料跟資訊部分追溯資料我聽起來就是什麼都有但是什麼都不夠啦我問一個具體的情境假如今天下午兩點實驗室確認某個批號的擁有問題請問食藥署是不是可以在30分鐘之內直接從食品源系統裡面拉出一個清單 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
440.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
459.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
有哪些下游業者哪些產品使用這批油哪些超商通路上架哪些便當店飯糰沙拉醬需要立即下架30分鐘內可以做到嗎跟委員說明我們剛剛講的是這個製程過程的這個我們的這個我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
462.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
485.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個私領雲是最製造的流程因為它製造裡面有原料端是哪裡然後到哪一個端所以我們到第一層剛剛我提到中聯然後到福壽、泰山、福茂這個我們可以清楚所以現在食藥署的現在只能用人工撈資料業者提供什麼就核對什麼這種的原始方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
485.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
492.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們會去比對也就是原始的方式嘛對不對業者的資料沒有跟政府的系統對接嗎有沒有對接 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
494.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
521.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
販售端沒有辦法就是他在往下了就比如說泰山哎呦賣給誰那個是販售行為如果是這樣這套食品園要做什麼過去幾輪啊花了十億的經費建一隻食品園遇到重大實在問題你哪有馬上掌握勒連即時追蹤與鎖定的能力都沒有啊我們立刻可以掌握到他往下的這一層你們說一直宣導啊宣導我們電子化管理啊AI內閣全部都是空的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
523.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
535.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你跟我講這個定位叫什麼叫做定位實驗可以蓋好幾間的這個校舍欸可以買很多這個檢驗儀器可以徵聘多少稽查人力結果你拿去做一個加強版的公山公濟系統而已啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
538.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
550.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個施平剛剛跟委員報告我們當然繼續來精進不過之前的這個設計主要是從製程的流程上的監測我請你問一下署長7月3日你出來開記者會那我請問你當天決定不公佈名單是卓用泰院長的才是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
559.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
568.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這邊跟委員說明因為針對要怎麼去管理的我們是針對106年食品安全風險評估我只問7月3號當天是誰才是不公布的我想我們是按照過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
576.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
596.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
不要講按照原則再去做那天是誰拍板的嘛這個是我在整個會議裡面那院長有表示反對嗎院長有沒有要求你們先公布已經確認的名單有沒有我們先知道沒有嘛院長就是在場又是召集人沒有他的同意你當然不敢講啊對不對你們現在幫他洗白不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
602.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
615.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我再次的跟委員說明因為我們要處理的回去告訴院長不要推給專家也不要推給你們下屬他自己做的決定他自己扛好不好那我再請關務署今年第一批從巴西進口的黃肉什麼時候進口幾月幾日到港關務署副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
633.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
639.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
委員好 您詢問的這個資料可不可以事後再提你們都備什麼準備 你今天來質詢幹什麼來備詢幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
642.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
662.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
對不對今年有多少自由業者從巴西進口黃豆公司名稱跟進口數量是多少你們都沒掌握那這些現在出了事你們都還掌握不了那這些巴西的黃豆分別來自哪個出口商哪個國際糧商又有從哪個港口或是糧商出口的你們都沒有那中聯爲止4月4號生產這批問題員使用的巴西黃豆是哪一天進口的哪一艘船 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
673.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
691.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
哪一張報單哪一個出口商哪一個港口你們都掌握了嗎食藥署現在把問題可能之一的調查方向都指向這個巴西黃豆中聯這批黃豆是不是跟其他油脂業者同一時期同一出口商同一港口甚至同一船進口的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
696 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
711.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
對不對 你們什麼都沒掌位我們要說明一下就是黃豆進口的時候因為在邊境要通過那個阻碍機關的輸入規定的檢查所以他們都是合格之後來進口你現在講的這個你把資料再拿給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
715.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
737.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
然後部長你們7月6號邀集大統一中聯台堂還有常輝四大油廠開會要求未來對進口黃豆原料採族傳或族批的這個檢驗那針對以後這是針對以後但為什麼沒有追四大廠以前的這個檢驗數據你們現在是既往不就展望未來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
739.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
754.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
對中聯的部分呢我們是從4月一直到6月30號的這中間的批次的樣本我們都全面再重驗一遍他過去他的自主檢驗有留下的樣本我們都重驗一遍因為四大廠一年大概可以產出50到60萬噸的大豆油嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
756.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
766.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你近年只抽了275件這個數字已經可以忽略不計實在不應該拿出來講275件對60萬噸你告訴我這個叫抽檢還是裝模作樣還是裝模作樣475件那個是指後市長的檢驗那我們現在當然除了剛剛提到對中聯去回溯他的這些檢驗之外我們重驗之外那另外對其他三個廠我們也提高我們的監測了 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
786.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
813.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那以前就是讓廠商自己說有沒有合格嘛那當然合格的數字到底是多少是檢驗極限的0.1還是剛好低或略過的1.8你不知道我也看不到啊全台灣的消費者更看不到拿大同一來講市佔率三成到四成五全台灣的雞排店地瓜球攤食品加工廠幾乎全靠它你不能在不確定有沒有風險的時候就認定沒有問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
815.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
829.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那過去這三個月半年來源是巴西黃豆煉出來的油我要求你比較中年的標準其他三大廠今年的進口的每一批的這個巴西黃豆生產的每一批的流量油重新送檢可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
832.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
852.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
然後把這個數據公布給國人我們來進一步的抽驗實際上最大的問題就是什麼我們政府的鴕鳥心態你不讓民眾有知的權利那我現在要求進口的黃豆原料族傳或族批來做檢驗根據食藥署自己公告的食品多環芳香 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
853.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
872.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
竹炭氫化合物的檢驗方法這套方法是設計來驗已經提煉出來的油脂成品那生黃豆是固體裡面有蛋白質纖維這個脂肪還有直接這套的你直接用這一套的方法去驗萃取的效率根本不夠啊驗出來這個數據會準確嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
878.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
894.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
跟委員說明針對黃豆這個原料如何確定它的所謂扁平比這個方法我們就積極的在做開發但是我們已經覺得它不可能我們是可以做這個我們一定可以去做這個方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
895.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
916.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
有有新的方法?沒有就是我們現在有他的有這個方法我們已經那天的報告就說可以報告是沒問題可以驗現在的自主檢驗是業者把檢體送去第三方民間實驗室例如這個SGS然後報告出來之後先回到業者的手上對不對是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
918.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
935.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好那業者拿到的數據如果發現快超標的比如說驗出6.6或8.9他們可以先選擇先不主動上報然後去調整下一批的製程等到數據降下來才應付稽查或拿別的樣品去驗你也不知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
936.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
960.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
你會知道嗎所以跟委員說明所以未來我們會去要求對於外部送檢的部分要同步給一份報告給主管機關我認為啦食藥署應該要強制規定資本的3000萬以上的油脂廠檢體只要一進入認證實驗室化驗結果必須透過系統第一時間同步直接自動盲傳回到這個食藥署的大數據庫中 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
963.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
977.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
然後中間不容許有業者有任何的經手知情充換報告的這種時間差才能真正做到這個防偽與透明你們做得到嗎?做得到嗎?數據直連之後啦系統必須啟動統計製程管制的預警像這次事件一級致癌物 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
989.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1008.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
BAP的歷史背景這個值都在0.5到0.7左右後來衝到1.6系統就應該在還沒破表之前自動亮燈然後主管機關就要求業者立刻暫停該線的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1011.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1022.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那徹查高溫脫臭的交換系統有沒有漏油對不對我覺得你們要做到這一點不是等每一次失火了才抓那個一萬公里以外的這個87黃豆來當這個代罪羔羊 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1025.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1053.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那第三個如果建立連線系統政府就能夠動態比對海關邊境的抽驗數據跟工廠成品自主檢驗數據一比對發現原料零成品卻連續幾個月維持高檔的時候系統就立刻能判定問題的所在地所在的這個地方台灣本土製程中直接這個就可以讓我們的稽查員去精準抓漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1054.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1079.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
好不好我希望你們把這個做到我們來研究一下這個因為台南有六成以上的餐飲在食品加工和飼料都綁在這條油脂巨頭的供應鏈上結果到最後你們把你們的食安把關是建立在自發良心我覺得這是非常危險的部長政府花了這麼多年建食品園推食安五環成立食安辦結果還是要靠業者自己發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1083.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1093.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
你對得起國人嗎?這我們會去強化再如何再去強化外部的監測我希望你們建立的是食安制度不是許願制度好不好?會會會謝謝部長 |