| IVOD_ID |
170369 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170369 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-08T11:39:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-08T12:09:10+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:30:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c8210c15aee3319363db28c89d092fec882f477dd9ed03a6d74a7c86df9d5e1265cba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林淑芬 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:39:01 - 12:09:10 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
討論事項
審查
一、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
二、委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
三、委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。
四、委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
六、委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
七、委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。
八、委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。
九、委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
十、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。
十一、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
十二、委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。
十三、委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
十四、委員陳超明等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
十五、委員黃健豪等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
十六、委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
十七、委員王育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】
【討論事項第十七案，如經復議則不予審查】） |
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好 謝謝主席 是不是請我們部長和署長好 請市部長江署長另外一位好 |
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部長上個禮拜五7月3號你們召開記者會邀請了學者專家還一起坐在旁邊當天台大農業化學系的教授蘇南維他在這裡面講了一些意思就是說這個有可能是來自於豆子的問題他就是 |
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7月3號什麼事情都還搞不清楚然後你們就請學者專家來背書說有可能是豆子的問題但我是要說啊學者當然可以提出科學上的可能性但你整個食藥署都還沒有查明原因你就安排學者來說原產地採收後乾燥可能造成本片比的生成 |
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然後容易讓外界認為說你們就直接認為是黃豆原料出問題 |
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甚至想說這是不是在幫業者開脫你還沒有查清楚製程的管理精煉的程序品質的控管創廚的運輸就先透過學者說法把焦點轉向國外的原料那待會我們可以再說那我的意思是說不要講這個蘇南維蘇南維是誰你們都不知道這裡沒有幾個人還記得 |
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115.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
孫南緯在附衛箱混油案件假油的時候他就引起了高度的爭議當時的政府也找他出來 當時他是拿到這個國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
122.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
147.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
還有富衛鄉這個業者的錢去做了一個研究他研究的主題確認開發芝麻油參混其他食用油檢測方法的研究所以他明明拿了業者的錢做研究也拿了政府的錢做研究他知道有混油他也做這個混油的研究方法的研究但他不公開不說 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
148.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
157.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他就是這樣子當假的這個混的芝麻油的事件爆發的時候他都沒有講話所以當時就引起高度的爭議那我現在在講這個學者過去是這樣子你們現在在重大的食安案件的時候你們還繼續邀請他出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
170.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
193.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你會讓人家相信說這不是請專家來幫業者開脫我是打問號啦老實說所以你如果讓人家相信說你不是在特定幫業者轉移這個方向尤其是整個案件都還沒有查明7月3號你就找這種爭議的學者來把問題導向原料端這樣子是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
197.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
213.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
更不要講另外一個方向你們說本扁比的代謝快幾天到兩週就可以排除不要過度恐慌我可以理解政府想要讓大家不恐慌可是事實上你們不應該這麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
215.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
236.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
而是因為台灣有多少的外食的人而這些外食的人天天可能吃便利商店的便當天天可能吃早餐都吃御飯糰而這些外食族的人沒有足夠的膳食纖維他們沒有攝取青菜量可以去代謝 沒有而他們的風險是天天天天 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
242.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
264.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
而天天吃這些御飯糰當早餐的人多得很欸更不要講說如果我說啦有小孩喜歡吃冰淇淋家裡面天天吃冰淇淋如果冰淇淋的油脂有問題你說本便比代謝快但是一次大量食用天天吃有沒有可能就有風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
265.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
290.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你都沒有考慮到很多人的飲食習慣消費習慣外食族的人的別無選擇所以你們找這些學者專家出來不要說洗地啦就是說這樣的做法我覺得應該是沒必要啦部長你覺得有必要這樣子做嗎事實上也轉移不了焦點啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
292.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
318.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
跟委員說明確實這個事件我們還在調查當中就如同我之前講的我們把它從4月到6月底這些我們都還要再按照它的這個樣本再重演然後再去check呢如果有問題的去對應它的往前追溯的製程來扣合是製程還是原料的問題當時上個禮拜五什麼都不知道啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
319.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
328.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
不要這樣就急著找學者專家出來啦要淡化這個事情的處理不是這樣子風險的問題是風險的問題風險溝通要跟人民好好的做風險溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
344.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
而風險溝通很重要的核心的精神其實是要資訊公開透明啦所以今天為什麼大家都覺得說不滿意你們因為食品的安全治理當然要有風險的管理但要做風險的溝通管理手中的是科學的這個判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
357.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
383.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
但是溝通重視的是資訊的揭露然後風險的來源檢測的結果然後在充分的資訊之下讓我們消費者要自主判斷所以這個問題資訊透明很重要風險的溝通很重要我是要告訴你這件事情好 下一個問題我是要告訴你食安法第七條第五項 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
384.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
402.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
食安法第七條第五項你清楚它的法條啊雖然你們用這一條開法但我還是要再講喔我再念一次食品業者不是只有三千萬以上也不是大廠只要所有的食品業者發現產品有危害衛生安全之餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
403.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
421.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
不是已經喔有可能有可能造成風險就應該要立即主動停止製造加工販賣而且要立即的辦理回收並通報直轄市縣市主管機關好這裡面有兩個風險有可能就要喔第二個要立即停止加工販賣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
432.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
446.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你現在是以沒有通知主管機關去處分他們可是你沒有處理到前半段前半段是判斷有可能有風險之餘了就要立即停止製造加工和販賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
447.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
463.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那如果照這樣的話中聯難巧是幾月幾號開始檢出好所以跟我們說明我們昨天呢只是先針對中聯但是另外的幾家業者包含泰山福茂福茂跟福壽 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
464.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
475.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
他們何時知道然後有沒有繼續販賣這個我們也在查那麼以南橋來講好啦我現在告訴你我們先把時間點先抓出來嘛第一個南橋5月13號就檢出4.6個單位了對 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
480.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
492.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是5月13號 你看 來 我們看一個影片 5月13號結果他今天下架的批次是什麼時候做的5月28 6月2號 6月4號 6月8號 6月2號 6月2號 6月3號 6月3號 他 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
496.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
506.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
5月13號自主檢驗就知道了有沒有符合我們食安法裡面第7條第5項你已經發現了有可能有健康危害之餘了就應該立即停止加工製造他有沒有停止他有沒有停止我們以為他這麼有良心通報出來結果不是他當然發現了4.6而到他再去復驗請外面的人復驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
524.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
537.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
八點零六月四號他都知道但是他也不停的在用這個有問題的毒油還繼續在生產加工這樣你聽到沒有那中聯油子什麼時候接貨報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
546.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
555.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
它是6月11號6月11號它有沒有停止生產有沒有停止加工製造有沒有下架按照我們的法律它就應該要立即下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
562.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
577.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好來6月15號他們大家都說他們秘密會議然後6月15號他們召開一個所謂的秘密會議就是平保聯繫會議6月15號所有人大家都知道所有業者都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
578.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
597.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
請問他們有沒有遵守我們的法律我們的法律是有健康危害之餘的風險的時候就要立即停止加工停止製造停止生產然後要立即下架有沒有都沒有然後現在我要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
599.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
611.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你們看業者怎麼做這個時序很重要因為這關係到法律的問題我們的法律到底是參考用的業者給他當成參考用的讓業者給架空掉了還是真的有實質的管理能力關係到這件事情如果這個時序屬實然後6月4號就8點0了然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
629.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
637.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
已經構成發現產品有危害安全衛生之虞了然後6月15號他們所有的秘密會議都知道了結果他們還在幹什麼他們第一時間發現的時候他們幹什麼部長他們幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
644.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
654.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他們第一個動作做復驗他們不是停止加工他們不是停止生產製造他們不是下架他們說我繼續復驗業者可以復驗但是復驗不能成為延後通報復驗不能成為不下架然後繼續生產製造加工的理由嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
673.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
677.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你也不能夠把復驗當成通報的前置程序嘛我現在要講什麼最危險的地方就是業者把流程理解成下游說有問題我再繼續復驗復驗確定以後再通報主管機關然後讓這個毒油繼續擴散讓這個加工食品繼續生產更多讓我們人民吃更多欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
702.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
723.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以第七條第五項 設計的邏輯是這樣子嗎保定你的理解是什麼 第七條第五項我們立法院修法是這樣子處理的嗎我的理解就是跟委員講的是一樣的這之餘的時候他就要立刻採取動作這個是業者的責任為什麼業者會變成今天這個負責性 為什麼會變成這負責性 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
725.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
744.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們立法院修法把第七條第五項的設計從嚴管理只要產品有可能對安全產生危害就要立即通報立即停止生產要下架發現有一例要先停用先控管先通報再同步復驗再釐清原因所以在這裡他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
746.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
749.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你們食藥署我看不下去你們食藥署說一開始新聞稿大家拿出來看一看第一時間跟泰山現在回頭去看都想吐這些業者跟你的食藥署都讓我們想吐你們用說接獲中聯主動通報來說明這個事件中聯是主動通報嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
772.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
782.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
有符合法律的通報程序嗎主動通報泰山來說我比法律規定的半年宴一次還更嚴格他講這個話都讓人想吐他被抓包了東窗事發了而且法律叫他馬上停止生產他都沒有然後他還敢說我比法律規定來更高標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
798.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
806.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
笑話而你的食藥署的新聞稿現在拿出來看還定調成中聯主動通報他如果主動通報在6月初就應該要通報了所以通報的業務主體也不是只有中聯 包括南橋南橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
824.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
842.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
他5月13就應該要通報了他不但不通報用毒油繼續生產製造還讓我們吃更多所以這證明什麼法律被業者架空形同虛設 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
844.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
865.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們在這裡所有食品安全的管理都仰賴業者的良知而偏偏業者最缺的就是沒有良知良心啦所以這的確是源頭管理破功啊源頭管理破功下有權中標啊民怨當然四起啊所以主動通報不等於即時通報啦也沒有符合法律啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
872.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
877.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
而今天這套自主檢驗 我們想像的前提是業者會誠實會及時 會完整的把異常交給主管機關而我們人民的想像是 人民錯誤虛假的想像是在架上的都有把關過 有政府在把關 沒問題原來這一些假設都是錯誤的 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
901.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
902.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所以現在我要講第二個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
905.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
931.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這種高風險的食品或上游的原料你指標性的污染物實質進入了多層供應鏈的大宗的這些原料一旦第三方這個實驗室檢出超標你們還是不知道所以第三方實驗室檢出超標你是不是也應該同步建立通報主管機關的機制有沒有可能也需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
932.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
936.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我們現在講 講個案 講這個事件但我們更要看到制度面哪裡有問題要補起來啊那我現在要講第二個問題喔自己投資上游 自己買自己的原料自己檢驗 自己放行啊現在這種自主管理還行得通嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
954.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
962.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我也不認為這個事件是單一批次檢驗超標現在也已經證明還有案外案 其他批次那我現在要問你就是說整個國內使用油脂的供應鏈高度集中了這個產業結構說是四家 其實就是兩大家中聯油脂和大統一 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
980.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1004.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
可是這些是什麼問題他們上游供應商下游品牌上游供應商就下游品牌投資的下游的品牌商不是無辜的受害者啦不要理解成這些福壽泰山福茂是無辜的受害者 不是他們同時都是股權 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1006.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1021.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
重疊在一起的 既是上游 又是下游還有食品加工業 天啊上游供應平台 下游品牌 具有共同投資 共同利益結構還仰賴業者自主管理嗎 這個案件 這一種同一個 而且是市占率這麼高的你還要繼續讓他們業者自主管理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1035.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1051.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
跟委員說明我們會強化外部監測除了他自主檢測的頻率逐批或者是中間的環節要去節點要去強化之外我們第二個這個頻管就是外部檢驗的部分會來強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1052.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1077.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
包含呢 因為這是只有這幾個源頭的那麼由主管機關入場去做部長 這種話我們聽很多啦台灣的假油事件 參同業綠素事件收水油事件 到這一次的毒油事件都是這些大廠商啦 一次兩次三次 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1079.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1104.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
每次都是全國人民在遭殃啊我們不是什麼多一點的外部監測機制整個油品管理整個資本重疊高度集中這些大財團大資本最上有壟斷的這也不能夠讓他們自主管理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1107.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1110.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
不是只要幾次抽菸 加強抽菸 不是再也不行啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1115.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1140.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
所以我們在這裡 他們有幾個問題 第一個上游供應商 下游品牌存在的股權利益關係下游的業者能不能以完全獨立的外部採購者立場要求上游供應商提高檢驗標準暫停出貨 主動通報不可能啦 那都他們自己的 對不對怎麼可能 我去要求中年游子更高標準 成本更高 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1142.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1146.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那你泰山福壽就贏自己的,他有可能這樣損及自己的利益所以在這種狀況當上游平台出問題下游品牌不是受害者他是同一個供應體系的共同責任主體所以他們不可能但是我要告訴你喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1164.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1188.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我最後告訴你 你看他們的貧寶會議大家業者 大家借酒來大家不知道 大家是要隱瞞什麼不知道要不感謝他沒有通報 沒有立即停止生產 沒有下架一起討論不知道要幹嘛現在 還有竹坯查驗這個可能有可能擴大你現在 就已經發生了要不要再擴大竹坯去查驗啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1190.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1194.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
現在只有一批有問題 只有案外案第二批那你現在要不要繼續擴大去查驗應不應該對這種毫無良知的業者也應該要去擴大查驗啊 需不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1206.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1223.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
跟委員講我們已經把它過去的樣本從四月到六月底的二十幾個樣本我們都在驗都重新驗 已經在驗了但是這樣子就好了嗎我現在要告訴你類似的股權結構的不是只有中聯油脂不是只有泰山福茂和福壽 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1224.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1236.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那大統一呢 你相信大統一 這一種相同的股權結構你們剛才 我剛才聽到你們早上早上起來報告他說大統一 統一集團自主管理比中聯還要嚴格 還要好早上 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1248.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1250.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
你憑什麼保證?你憑什麼保證?出問題了你可以負責嗎?我們在這裡要再次仰賴業者的良知和良心嗎?騙笑欸!早上你怎麼知道?你有沒有阿大保證?你剛才說的啊!委員問你啊!大統一有沒有問題啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1272.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1275.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
他一樣是大型的食用油脂供應平台背後連結了食品加工、油脂販售、飼料生產他是一個大型的財團 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1293.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1311.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
然後包括統一企業泰華油脂大成長成企業也就是說大統一不是單一獨立的油廠它是大型的食品加工油脂銷售飼料產業共同投資最大的這個油脂供應平台啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1313.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1323.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
所以它的原料製程檢驗如果出現異常影響的範圍也不是單一品牌甚至會比中聯油脂更大 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1325.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1345.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那沿著他的供應鏈擴散到多個通路和產品類型所以你不可以把這個事件定調成只是中聯油脂單一業者的違規案件你應該進一步的擴大去盤點大型實用油脂業者的供應鏈結構和股權關係然後要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1348.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1358.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
查驗要去確定這一些背後的食品加工油脂販售飼料通路所有的東西每一個環節都還是安全的啊要主動出擊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1364.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1379.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
不能夠在這裡仰賴業者自主管理正如同我沒有辦法在這裡聽到你食品組的組長在這裡大言不慚拍胸脯說大統一管理的比中聯油脂更嚴格 屁我們不相信這種屁話啦要有政府啦不是在那裡道德上的保證啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1392.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1417.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
這個事件以後我們希望你也不是查中領油脂啊你這樣講說本扁比抄標你們一開始就說黃豆來源乾燥儲存製成油問題那我同樣的問題我再問你剛才你們也是閃躲了一下啦大統一到底有沒有買巴西黃豆如果你們認為是巴西黃豆有問題大統一到底有沒有買巴西黃豆 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1419.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1440.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
他採購的比例 批次 進貨的時間 原料的檢驗有沒有異常過他這個都自主管理 所以你們沒有資料啦他們都自主管理啦這次中聯有自主揭示啦你們大統議有自主揭示了嗎 有嗎你們有沒有數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1449.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1453 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
有沒有買到巴西豆你們認為巴西豆出問題這個因為從報驗的部分呢在去年我們看到他有進來今年我就問你今年就好了啦今年有沒有啦沒有資料我這邊手上 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1476.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1491.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
都事情發生了你們都指向巴西黃豆你現在問你大統一今年有沒有進你們沒有同時去查嗎所以你們不敢查還是不知道還是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1493.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1506.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
所以他們有沒有進 進了以後自主檢驗有沒有合格結果都有合格嗎那你們現在要不要對大統一台堂常徽也要擴大 稍微抽查一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1509.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1524.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我沒有說我不是要指控大同益有問題而是因為使用油脂高度集中流量極大這是民生基礎的原料 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1525.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1539.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
所以從中聯油脂暴露出進口原料製成管控批次的檢驗下游的流向這種管理風險都出問題的時候同樣市佔率這麼高我們也希望要讓人民安心啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1541.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1559.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
應該要同步去檢視其他大型的有紙的平台是不是有相同的風險條件所以我再說一次 我不知道大統一是不是直接有問題但是政府絕對有責任也要一併的查清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1561.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1586.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以在這裡要檢討的是使用油脂最上游的源頭這些產業供應的高度集中上下游的股權和利益關係緊密的產業結構我們絕對不能夠再把食品的安全交給業者自主管理我們屢屢就知道發現包括南橋都已經知道了還繼續加工製造 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1588.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1600.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以我們可以確定 沒有一個食品加工廠他們真的會自主檢驗 自主有良知 自己把關不可信任啦 絕對不可信任但是呢 我現在是要再講另外一個結論啦我講一個結論啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1610.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1628.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
不要用代謝很快來回應社會那也不要說還沒有出問題然後就直接還沒有找出問題的原因就隨便把你的可能性就直接變成好像就是答案了2014年黑心油 地溝油 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1630.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1654.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
食藥署的官方Q&A曾經表示黑心油品雖然可能具有潛在健康風險但因問題油品流入市面時時間跟民眾攝取量有限是否會造成健康危害仍需要更多科學資料評估而且你們的食藥署當時還說目前科學文獻並無直接證據證明黑心油品會立即危害人體健康當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1659.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1664.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
現在你們還去叫人家說代謝很快代謝很快是有前提有要件的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1667.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1688.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
而這個前提案要件你們沒讓人民知道你們直接說沒啥問題這樣不對的當年社會為什麼憤怒當年社會是因為政府跟沒有做好把關問題喔然後業者跟政府最後不透明不誠實不負責任讓我們這樣子吃下去而這一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1689.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1715.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
本扁比就是列為致癌物質它當然是長期反覆累積暴露的風險不是短期的極毒性 但是你要考慮到現在大家家庭都外食啦大家的早餐都外食啦孩子就愛吃冰淇淋 就愛吃沙拉啦天天吃的很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1717.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
1741.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
所以這不是天天吃嗎這不是長期嗎這不是累積暴露嗎而這種風險應該要源頭被控制不是等到問題再來告訴人民再透過專家學者來告訴我們身體可以代謝不用太擔心我們不想要這樣這次的事件我是要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
1744.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
1765.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我們不是要製造恐慌也不是要否定掉你風險評估的專業而是你必須要了解科學說明不能取代行政責任代謝的速度不能取代源頭管理沒有極度性也不能取代公開透明就是這樣子保定 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
1767.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
1780.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
不要再像以前一樣 說詞跟以前一樣 聽不下去啊好好的誠實面對 資訊公開透明交給消費者自行來判斷 政府該做的都要扛起來不可以這樣啦 直接拍胸膛 說他入職管理要比較嚴 屁 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
1793.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
1808.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
謝謝委員我們一定把所有的資訊及時的透明公開那麼會強化這個風險沒有啊你們上個禮拜就沒有啊上個禮拜六日啊我們這兩個看不下去一直在查好啦好謝謝謝謝林子芬委員的諮詢 |