| IVOD_ID |
170316 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170316 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-20-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-08T09:24:29+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-08T09:35:09+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c82107a9170976e552b10203c8b184455ea8195bb850ba73424318a94a20e7e7dac435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:24:29 - 09:35:09 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，有關財政部主管臺灣土地銀行股份有限公司、財政部印刷廠、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司。（僅詢答）
二、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有限公司。（僅詢答）
三、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分，有關金融監督管理委員會主管：（僅詢答）
(一)特別收入基金－金融監督管理基金。
(二)信託基金－保險業務發展基金。
【7月8日及9日兩天一次會】） |
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主席 麻煩請台灣原酒公司湯董事長跟賴總經理請湯董事長 賴總經理兩位早 那個按一下 回音早 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.385 |
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我這幾天很認真看到你們在行銷台酒的啤酒,包括在高雄辦啤酒節,還有別的地方,很認真在行銷,啤酒的銷售或是酒類的銷售有增加嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
76.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
跟委員報告我們啤酒今年的一到五月跟去年同期比較的話目前是衰退一點多%但是這個距離應該因為夏天還沒有來應該有機會可以比去年同期成長那你們其實最大的問題是你們的菸銷售量跟去年跟前年比起來少了多少到目前少了百分之八左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
77.899 |
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這是今年的吧今年到現在到5月是少了12%啦是跟去年比嗎對對對那跟加熱菸還沒有開放的時間比呢加熱菸還沒有開放是少8%但是加熱菸開放之後現在是少12%少12%那這個營業收入會少多少到5月份少了13億多好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
104.471 |
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129.307 |
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最重要的問題是要怎麼樣去取得我知道我們菸酒公司也有準備要生產加熱菸但是要經過健康風險評估的核准目前核准的兩家都是外國公司台灣菸酒公司你認為沒有辦法取得加熱菸的核准 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
130.748 |
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134.763 |
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時間的問題呢還是程序上還是審查上有什麼困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.871 |
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159.949 |
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謝謝委員的關心我想跟委員報告我想我們在下個禮拜七月十三號下禮拜一會正式的提供第九次的資料補正那這一次的資料另容呢最主要是針對於動物性實驗跟國健署要求的九十項的排放測試那現在都已經完成了做好我們也希望目標可以有機會的 |
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161.11 |
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175.37 |
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有條件的像美國跟日本一樣在第三季來通過因為同仁都很關心除了本公司的營收以外我想也有攸關政府的收入跟市場的秩序因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
176.351 |
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199.238 |
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唯一生產的本土業者沒有一家通過卻通過了海外的兩家業者所以我想我們會盡全力的把這個實驗的做完整那當然要看國建署他們的態度健康風險評估這個制度在全世界有販售加熱菸的國家裡面有幾個國家採取要經過這樣的程序目前就我知道的是沒有就台灣 |
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201.82 |
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我們之前有做過一個比喻當然這個比喻恰不恰當自己來考慮舉重民輕你那個捲菸普通的紫菸現在販售之前要不要做健康風險評估現在是沒有健康風險評估但是配方的內容要申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
222.116 |
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那如果止煙不用健康風險評估請問你的加熱煙你沒有點燃加熱煙跟止煙之間我知道我看到的資料最大的差距是焦油嘛因為沒有點燃沒有焦油嘛那其他的成分都是煙草都是一模一樣的東西啊反而危害更小又沒有明火那為什麼止煙沒有健康風險評估加熱煙要健康風險評估而且是全世界首創的例子 |
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250.285 |
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你知道原因是什麼嗎是因為本院立法院硬把你們加上去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
256.787 |
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跟委員報告我們是生產單位那國建署是屬於督導單位要看國建署的態度啦那事實上我們要跟國建署碰面也蠻困難的透過email但是這一次因為我們延拓了三年喔那我們這一次在下個禮拜一這個實驗已經相當完整了那接下來就要看國建署的態度是不是能讓本土唯一的一間業者還有也是政府的公司有機會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
285.874 |
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305.097 |
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有條件的跟另外那兩家一樣的來通過這個邏輯上很奇怪喔叫我選法律的我講究邏輯嘛沒有核准你的產品卻要拿你的產品的這個實驗報告出來你產品就沒有賣你又沒有辦法生產這個產品那你怎麼樣去做實驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
306.755 |
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333.877 |
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他沒有核准你生產啊那你沒有核准你生產你就沒有產品啊沒有產品你如何去我請教你你如何去做這些實驗呢我跟委員報告一開始跟國進署的溝通是希望我們可以用資料的橋接因為國外的加熱煙已經都賣了十幾年了但是到後來又轉向變成說沒有辦法橋接所以我們才最近又延拓了半年去進行所有的動物性實驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
335.421 |
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347.626 |
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我知道問題是你沒有產品你要拿什麼東西去實驗我們又特別的跟國建署他有一個專案製造審查又特別申請了樣品去做動物性實驗所以他核准你做樣品然後去做實驗這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
349.599 |
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376.038 |
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好啦 那你國健署有沒有給你們什麼樣的行政指導啊不是讓你在盲人摸象 因為沒有潛力啊全世界也沒有潛力那沒有潛力的狀況下 要去做這個健康風險評估他有沒有給你做一些行政指導 不然不是瞎子摸象嗎 全貿都不知道那如何去能夠來 用委員會制度台灣的委員會喔 有一個最糟糕的地方是採共識學 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
377.159 |
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只有一個委員有什麼意見你那個案子全部都要打掉重來然後要符合他的意見主席如果沒有擔當的話這些事情都進行不了你知道嗎那國進署有沒有給你一些行政指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
391.443 |
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跟委員報告我們的直屬長官有給我們很多鼓勵啦那至於國建署的部分我們比較不容易跟他有溝通啦那我們就是E-mail針對他給我們的東西下去做調整鼓勵是給你呼呼說你辛苦了這樣叫鼓勵是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
410.239 |
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長官給我們很多鼓勵因為這畢竟過去沒有一個先例但是我們希望這是一個我剛剛講的就是市場的秩序應該台灣是唯一生產的另外兩個業者都是海外平行輸入的事實上如果所有的產品是在菸酒公司生產 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
427.999 |
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452.068 |
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我想對於市場的這個管理的機制應該會更好我們應該是更能守護市場的標準才對啦因為你是國營事業而且是百分之百公股啦沒有私人股份我才敢在這邊講這個我如果在這邊講被解讀說我在包庇煙傷我在推進什麼給圖利什麼我這吃不完兜著走啊這個這些團體是很厲害的好你先請回座好謝謝委員請那個財政部莊部長莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
459.537 |
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480.035 |
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委員好部長我剛剛跟燕酒公司管理人的對話你有聽到是的他說你們有給他們很多的鼓勵你們是給什麼鼓勵委員不只是鼓勵其實我們我有請國庫署署長到衛福部去做溝通看看了解問題真的在哪裡那我想這個部分衛福部也提供了一些比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
480.675 |
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具体的可以说认为建议烟酒公司应该去什么样的比如说找哪些机构去做相关的一些检测等等不是只有鼓励其实我们也希望因为烟酒公司它确实因为市场上加热烟嘛已经开始有在贩售那我们也希望烟酒公司的产品能够尽快通过健康风险评估而它经过几次我知道是已经是第九次要他们补证了那到底要补什么以及要什么样的方式其实我们国库署署长都有到卫福部去协助沟通了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
510.51 |
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535.498 |
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部長我覺得我要跟你講一個我的想法是財政部跟衛福部是平行單位你們的溝通的上層是行政院嘛這個創設了一個全世界從來沒有過的制度然後別的國家的加熱菸準了百分之百公營的能夠遵守法令的審查了兩三年審不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
537.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
554.666 |
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我覺得這個應該要到行政院去據理力爭啦這個 如果你讓這個委員會就讓他這樣跑那麼多的委員 這個委員 這個意見 那個委員 那個意見每次都不停在補資料 你知道開一個委員會一次都好幾個月補來補去那台灣菸酒公司怎麼生存啊我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
557.94 |
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580.589 |
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除了肩負國庫的收入之外我們也要照顧我們的同仁讓他們有這個合法的市場可以去經營我覺得這個事情我其實關心很久了我以前就是很納悶說這個邏輯就不通啊為什麼會這樣就現在了解起來說其實委員會如果主席沒有擔當的話就是變成大家都不負責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
582.698 |
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598.793 |
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上次沒來開會的這次來開會隨便發表一條意見又沒有共識然後又要再下一次你們應該要跟行政院把這個狀況說明清楚日本的美國的加熱菸在台灣可以賣 |
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601.002 |
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629.008 |
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他們是怎麼通過健康風險評估的他們也是審查通過的啊為什麼會通過他們有去做這些實驗嗎他是拿他在外國橋接在外國賣加熱菸的資料來到台灣審的嘛那為什麼菸酒公司要單獨自己去做這些實驗這些實驗以前也沒有過也沒有人做過你們要想辦法要跟衛福部這邊溝通啦是要請那麼多一點行政指導好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
630.031 |
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640.387 |
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要符合法律但是路要讓人家能夠走下去如果連國家的百分之百國營的企業都走不下去那還有誰能做呢是喔 好不好 加油喔好 謝謝 謝謝委員 |