| IVOD_ID |
170304 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170304 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-06 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-06T11:30:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-06T11:41:39+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:31 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/09e0feae5cc9a38a2a3d02134bd572c528d6d5ac23ac785a6f57b09da713bd625656869f75d93f9c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳冠廷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:30:08 - 11:41:39 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-06T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥、內政部、法務部報告「新興毒品走私之國安情資整合與跨國緝毒協同作為」，併請海洋委員會海巡署、財政部關務署、國防部憲兵指揮部列席，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.703 |
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19.26 |
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先請這個國防部憲兵指揮部指揮部參謀長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.299 |
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41.63 |
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這個剛才有幾個委員好像有提到我們這個陸軍109旅的部分這個大家應該是剛才已經有提到了我們仔細看一下這個案件我們發覺到這是對國軍來講對我國的國防來說那是一件非常可怕的事情等一下我們會請國安局一起來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
65.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
為什麼會可怕的原因是在於說我發覺到軍中不僅是有藥頭藥頭跟煮頭竟然還結合在一起這是更令人覺得可怕也就是說從財務的問題到藥品濫用的問題我看起來它不是單一軍種它是也不是單從士官兵它甚至軍官都有可能這樣子完全的被滲透 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.801 |
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93.503 |
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所以我非常擔心這樣子的狀況因為我看到說這個包含這個起訴書齁有行賄班長班長黑吃黑就是查獲到毒品之後竟然還要鎖藥這個貪污然後再把他發回給藥品再發回因為他已經把他贖回這其實都是無法想像的喔也就是說這個是上校交鄉賊從官兵從兵到官全部都在這個體系裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.804 |
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110.395 |
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我想請教一下在這一次的我們就講1096我都還不要講其他的案件包含醫務兵醫務兵來攜帶這個藥品不是藥品毒品進入營區也不是被查其實在做安全檢查的時候主動就說這個就是喪屍煙彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
112.381 |
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129.982 |
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所以一而再再而三,那不是單一案件,這可能是完整的網絡,從主頭到要頭,再漫延在各個軍中,這個部分你們掌握的狀況是怎麼樣?那相關的行政查處,相關的行政懲處,目前是做到什麼樣?我們現在不講法律面,就講行政的懲處面的狀況。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
131.773 |
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146.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
跟委員報告一下有關剛剛羅講這個腰動酒旅他這兩個案件是軍事訓練役在進入營區之後後面所產生的案件那當然他在營區內會去吸收 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
149.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
172.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
班長或是向上發展成為一個群組的一個網絡的一個販售跟交易那當然在單位報給我們先兵隊之後我們就會立即針對這些案件來實施偵辦那有關行政屬於法律部分當然就由我們來實施移送給檢察官實施偵辦那在行政懲處的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
187.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
就該單位來實施辦理對我知道該單位來實施辦理我想請教一下就你的掌握該單位他們懲處到什麼樣的狀況懲職到什麼層級有誰負政治責任不太清楚官委員報告這個不太清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
189.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
217.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我為什麼要講這件事情就是說我們現在在講法律責任法律責任當然是要負的那行政責任呢我看到我們的這個包含共諜案在憲兵自己本身就有我發覺到一件事情就是說在行政懲處上面我們好像也當作不要不要緊的那種感覺就是過了一陣子之後反正大家沒有再提就沒事了反正沒關係法律面就法律面那你們這樣怎麼治軍啊行政面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
218.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
239.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
跟委員報告一下今天我們外交國防委員會來召開這樣的會議你應該要本來就應該要預測我們應該會問類似的問題就是說他的行政懲處到誰這個你們沒有辦法掌握跟委員報告一下如果說有在營區內發生毒品案件這些原則上都會以計兩大過太處為主計兩大過太處到什麼層級 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
243.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
262.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
保持按照他的責任 按照他的責任劃分來做懲處按照他的責任如果以憲兵來講的話 都會 基本上當事人都是移送法辦然後計量大過 甚至撤職我們當然知道當事人 他的法律面他都已經要去關了他當然是 當然是撤職 我說在管理層面啊我就不是在講那個兵 不是在講那個班長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
264.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
290.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那它的管理層面上面也是會依照層級來做懲處好 那麻煩之後再跟我們講一下它的懲處到什麼樣的狀況以後要有這個案例出來之後以後我們的管理才會比較增強一點嘛不然大家都沒辦法 這樣是不對的嘛那數字呢 在整個軍中你們有大概掌握說我為什麼 我今天看到不管是法務部 內政部茶器多少公斤 多少原料 多少噸 多少公斤 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
291.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
319.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這是他們外面輸入進來的這個東西我沒有辦法去知道說你這個查緝越多是代表什麼意義但我們可以知道是有多少的比例有沒有下降有沒有上升多少員多少人他被查獲在軍中多少人被影響他的組織犯罪狀況是怎麼樣這個是我們可以掌握的嘛是這個你不用到你海關去做海關該做的事情內政部警察再去做警察做的事情至少你們的數據要出來嘛有多少人受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
320.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
327.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
官局有沒有這樣子的資料有沒有上報給你們大概國防部自己有沒有做相關的資料毒品相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
329.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
351.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
一毒品別嘛一級毒品二級毒品我想國安局這邊可能會比較從那個制度面的規劃那委員大概關注的重點是在於營區毒品安全的管理那第一部分我想剛剛參謀長也提到了營區在進出時候相關的一個安全檢查應該這個機制要更強化那第二個是在營區裡面的毒品的流通它到底是個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
352.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
還是是說有一些組織的交易的行為那這個部分可能也是一個重點那接下來才有另外一個問題是有沒有特定的犯罪組織特別把毒品以營區為主要的行銷的對象那像這種比較總體性的這些可能的樣態我想後續我們依照我們勤工法來制導統合協調那縣子部這邊來做再更進一步的釐清因為一個在桃園嘛那一個在祁山嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
382 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
400.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那我剛剛講到這個從毒品到這個財務上面的議題也就是說當主頭啦 賭博網站這不是我們一直在講的國安問題嗎這個哪一個被吸收 哪一個供點就回到我們今天在媒體在問到說我們講到教育講到愛國教育 反共愛國教育等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
401.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
412.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們先以任務為導向來做我們先講先不要講這個我們可能因為其實在進入軍中之前大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
413.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
437.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這些兵員大概本身就已經有他們自己的價值觀但有些事情是可以做有些事情是不可以做的你可以閱讀你想要看的任何書籍憲法保障人民的自由那哪些是不可以做的包含這情報滲透包含這些賭博相關的組織滲透這些是要教育的不是教條不是在那邊在那邊站立牆然後重複這講十次或者是講這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
439.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
463.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我不知道 就是40年代50年代國民黨的那種教育40年代國民黨的教育 50年代國民黨的教育共諜有因此而減少嗎沒有啊 它一樣滲透在最高層啊同樣的 那我們現在現代化現代化的這個國家戰略不是學50 60年代的這種國民黨的這種教條式的教育教條式的教育講了50年之後還是一樣吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
464.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
482.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那不是教條式的教育你就要很清楚的說你要怎麼樣反滲透怎麼樣反情報什麼是need to know什麼需要知道什麼不需要知道什麼樣的情報的傳遞方式什麼樣的安全查核你都要做嘛那你在跟我教條式的國防部在講這個回到國民黨時代的這種做法有什麼意義一樣嘛賭博 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
483.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
512.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主投加要投主投加要投加共諜這樣子的會不斷的他把他聯繫起來那才是可怕那就是組織性犯罪如果只是賭博的話是財務性財務性的話當然有他的這個非常令人擔憂的部分但財務性的話或許還可以透過一些機制來去償還債務那當你有要贏的時候就等於說這一個這個系統剛才我們提到從班長下士到這些官兵接下來是官兵吸收 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
513.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
522.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
就像官兵吸收班長班長威脅官兵哇天啊這實在是這是很可怕的事情而且看起來南北大串聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
523.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
546.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
高雄也有 桃園也有 還有一些我們沒有查到的怎麼辦那其實軍中是社會的縮影嘛表示他們 等到他們還有裝病 裝病然後後來就免疫我天啊 什麼花招都有 這是多麼可怕的事情 這是一個旅那所有 有藥頭 有煮頭 有裝病免疫的逃兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
549.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
557.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那行政查處到哪裡 管理的責任到哪裡今天我們在委員會的時候 這樣不知道這樣對嗎 好像不太對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
559.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
586.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個情報你有掌握嗎哇 這個已經滑稽到 這個是太可怕了 這個必須要處理局長有什麼看法這部分因為涉及到軍隊的管理那就藥品的查處的部分我想縣指部這邊我們再來跟他們加強做一些指導看重點要放在我剛剛跟委員報告的幾個面向那第二部分是在部隊內部除了行政查處以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
586.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
615.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
宣教也非常重要那這部分我們在跟我們國安情報單隊的政戰局也希望他們這一部分來加強做一些處理讓官兵弟兄不是只有單向的接受這些宣教而是能夠任意化成一般日常的一個行為來避免剛剛委員提到的問題對啦 我就是剛剛講的都對但是就是在強調就是責任啦 責任政治行政的責任政治國會議員受到選民的監督每四年選一次那我放在我們現在行政的各位長官們好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
617.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
638.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
只要講一些政治的話他好像不用負政策的責任或者是負管理的責任這樣不太對吧?行政上面的責任是什麼樣?那憲兵他是協助查處的當然重中之重 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
639.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
661.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
但我應該不用提醒你們,2025年你們有共諜四個軍人,他們也有判七年的定讞喔。那行政查處咧?後來到哪裡?後來是有誰負政治責任?有嗎?有人負政治責任嗎?我不是自問自答,我現在問有沒有人負政治責任?沒關係,之後再跟我講到底管理到什麼的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
662.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
688.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
到什麼樣的層級因為我們要公平嘛就是說不要說有些我們認為重要的大案就要叫人家負政治責任有些其實一樣重要但沒有所以一定要有相對的克責的制度那這個克責制度特別是在軍中還是有它的管理上面的我沒有要叫你們負法律的責任行政上面的責任是什麼不是該員兩大過太處他都要去關了太處對不對好 謝謝好 謝謝委員提醒 |