| IVOD_ID |
170253 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170253 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-02T10:32:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-02T10:51:29+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cc5c88b044d5f1e095de04c84f6d2ebbc206a561727bd8a3e0219f54a37cabce14e39bd33e9c15bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林淑芬 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:32:16 - 10:51:29 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查
一、委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「菸害防制法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。
二、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。
三、委員羅智強等17人擬具「菸害防制法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。
四、委員羅智強等17人擬具「菸害防制法第四十條條文修正草案」案。
五、委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「菸害防制法第四條條文修正草案」案。
六、委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
七、委員林月琴等22人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
八、委員王育敏等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
九、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「菸害防制法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。
十、委員邱若華等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。
十一、委員陳超明等31人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
十二、委員王義川等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三十二條及第四十條條文修正草案」案。
十三、委員林倩綺等22人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
十四、委員陳菁徽等21人擬具「菸害防制法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
十五、委員林思銘等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
十六、委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
十七、委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
【僅詢答】【第十二至十七案，如經復議則不予審查】） |
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好 謝謝主席 是不是繼續請我們部長 有請時部長部長早 剛才在辦公室裡面聽你的答詢有一點瞠目結舌我們本來第一時間看到媒體報導披露這個含本瓶比的致癌物質的油品是由廠商泰山 |
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31.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
36.84 |
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他自主公告說我們比政府規定的半年驗一次還要更嚴格我們四個月一劑就驗一次了那我告訴大家我們有不合格超標我們希望自主管理要請大家下架然後要回收本來以為是這樣子結果呢你剛才說根本不是這樣子 |
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58.304 |
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76.346 |
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這個是令我們瞠目結舌的 原來真相是 我剛才聽你講的 真相是中聯有指 泰山福壽還有福茂 他們第一次自主檢驗是合格的 |
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77.657 |
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97.155 |
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他們的自主檢驗數據是合格賣出去以後下游的廠商自己再驗一次發現超標不合格跟委員釐清就是說它的源頭就是來自同一家啦就是中聯中聯是供應商我知道啦中聯是代工廠商嘛 |
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100.618 |
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116.144 |
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他們自主檢驗合格了嘛 對不對現在出問題的這一批油脂中聯自己驗是合格的嘛人家下油廠商驗是不合格 請問這下油廠商他為什麼要驗 他是誰 哪一個廠商通路商 還是什麼 |
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125.347 |
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153.696 |
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因為業也要花錢啊跟委員報告因為喔 油品到下一個廠商他們其實自己對於使用的油品會做 有的廠商會自己在這驗這個不是普通廠商啦要花錢自己去驗的絕對不是尋常廠商是通路商還是哪一個廠商你可以直接說嗎就我們了解第一次知道的是南橋所以他們把南橋是要做什麼的他自己是做油品的他做相關的油品南橋據我所知不是食品加工業 |
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154.776 |
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158.98 |
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是嗎 有嗎 南橋做什麼它是有油品的 其實餐飲 各方面都有南橋 烘焙業也都有所以中聯油脂驗出來都及格了然後交貨給下油廠商下油廠商也是大廠商他們謹慎去驗出來是超標超標通知中聯油脂中聯油脂在驗 才發現不行 不及格 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
183.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
187.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他把流廠的那個油再驗他們其實出去之後還有流廠的不要講這種都來都去的總之自主檢驗是合格被下游廠商檢驗出來出問題了東窗事發了紙包不住火了然後他再驗一次就不合格了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
200.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
208.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
事情的經過是這樣子嘛 因為對我們消費者而言我們就百思不得其解 曾幾何時啊有油品廠商這麼的誠實 會自己公告說 我的油有問題請大家下架本來以為 欸 這個食品業者怎麼這麼誠實今天才發現 不是 是他被下油廠商驗出來超飄 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
242.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
他才再驗一次然後才跟大家講因為大家都知道了下游廠商都知道了好我現在講這個事情很重要為什麼因為如果沒有南橋如果沒有下游廠商謹慎的再驗一次請問這一些超標的油瓶會下架嗎請問他們會自主回收嗎他們會公告不及格嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
251.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
276.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
不會 答案是不會好 那我要講這個東窗事發他才會再驗一次才發現說第一次不及格 第二次第一次及格 第二次不及格好 那我現在要跟署長和部長講這個超標不是一點點不是上游下游一起把關 不是是業者自主管理的假象和破功 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
278.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
對不對 如果沒有南橋 這個自主管理它就是合格過去了 大家又繼續吞下去可是這個事情很嚴重 為什麼 因為部長 1300噸 這個裡面最嚴重的問題在它是18公升的營業業務用油耶 業務用油耶 到現在有廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
303.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
325.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
就是福茂 他連批號幾號 他連他的流向是哪裡三家中聯有指三間廠商合資的嘛 泰山 福茂 福壽可是呢 泰山跟福壽公布了他們用什麼包裝 批號是什麼到現在還沒有看到福茂有指公告餒 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
327.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
344.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
福茂還擺爛在那裡耶報告委員我這邊有批號向您報告你有批號不要跟我報告請他們對社會公告不要跟我報告部長我現在跟你講一千三百多萬換成營業用的喔不管是餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
346.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
358.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
小吃店 大賣場 夜市 八卦營養午餐大家買的油品都是18公升1300噸換成18公升 裝成幾桶 你算過嗎 幾桶你不算過齁 我算了 72222桶 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
368.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
393.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這不是小事72222桶18公升的這個鋪貨 鋪貨不到全聯 家樂福 美聯社小包裝的一般家庭的1公升2公升的鋪貨在全聯 家樂福 美聯社大家都是去這種地方買油換成2公升包裝是65萬瓶 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
396.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
415.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
65萬坪 那大包裝跟小包裝比例是多少 你們有掌握嗎不知道 可不可以我們現在 報導委員我們有在盤這個部分好 你們繼續盤 18公升的我告訴你全部都最小的 就最小的 最少數量就18公升7.23萬桶 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
419.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
428.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個是全台灣 夜市 便當店 小吃店 餐廳大概全部都中了 有雜的 全部都中了不要忘了 我剛才一開始就講的一開始就講的 他自主檢驗都合格的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
436.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
445.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
是下游的廠商驗了不合格他才再驗才變成不合格如果沒有下游廠商再驗我們就回頭要去打問號請問他們以前的驗的合格的真的是合格嗎我現在要問部長和署長就是這些廠商自主檢驗以前驗的合格的是真的合格嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
462.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
480.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
跟委員報告一下因為他們的委託也是第三方像第一次四月份他們是SGS 第二次是艾滋味幫忙驗第三次他們在確認的時候是SGS那我們對於第三方檢驗他是被核可確定他的製程跟檢驗過程我現在跟你講這個他送驗的樣品是什麼樣品不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
485.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
504.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
然後出問題的後市場你交給廠商的那最準啦最準啦交給廠商的跟你第一次送宴的是不是一樣政府都在管你不知道是不是一樣 不知道最後在宴的一定是剩下的那些要留底的嘛所以才 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
505.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
532.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以我們都知道事先檢驗 政府如果在管我是要講說高風險的原料進入供應鏈以後這個出問題大家都才知道可是源頭出問題它就是對社會影響最大的而且是大的源頭的所以在這個裡面我要跟你講說不只是數量大再來這一次檢出的本片比本片比它的限量檢出的數據是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
533.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
550.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是兩ppb以下就是兩毫克每一公斤以下的本評比呢對 標準是2對 我說它檢出量是多少第一次是驗1.6我不要講第一次第一次的樣本是哪裡來的我們不知道嘛後面是驗出8.18.1是2的4倍超過 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
555.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
570.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
跟委員報告一下 這個是牽涉到獨立學他是慢性獨立 我們會擔心他致癌的問題不是啦 署長其實你不需要這樣子你不需要在這個裡面跟我們打轉他就是超標四倍對我們人民來講 我們的擔憂就在這裡所以你不需要再講說獨立怎麼樣怎麼樣我超過0.1 我都不能接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
574.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
594.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
更何況是超標4倍如果不要用單一的致癌物質本偏比的數據用你們紫藥署的制度降低食品中多環芳香族碳氫化合物含量的作業指引你們的PAHS的監測指標值是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
596.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
610.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
就是整個PAHS的監測標準是10而你看它整個的數據看出來你總的加起來是10嗎 不是總的加起來是21.3了吧不要講致癌物質本評比喔包括這一些這個PAHS都是超標兩倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
625.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
645.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個非常非常的嚴重加從起來是21.3 超過監測值的兩倍如果單一來看 每一種 每一種這種高風險的化學物質包括本瓶櫻 包括這個本瓶比 包括這個Krysani 還什麼的通通都是超標 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
647.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
660.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以這個PAHS整體的污染已經超過了監測的指標兩倍 很嚴重所以我們要回過頭來講 食安的制度我們監測和管理 食安的管理制度是要事前把關 源頭把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
662.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
690.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以我要講這是事後事後大家都吃下去了大家都吃下去了你發現他是大幅超標所以我在這裡要跟部長和署長講幾件事第一個我們的檢驗的頻率還要維持半年一次嗎因為自有的產業他批次進貨批次精緻批次出貨對實際生產的批次來說半年他沒有辦法把關啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
691.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
698.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
而一個一批次 你看這個批次1300噸所以部長 我們還要維持原來的制度嗎現行的制度夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
700.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
722.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
跟委員報告我們會把這個事件調查清楚之後重新檢討看要在哪個地方來補破網把他這個建立起來我在這裡具體建議啦因為他的食用油脂的原料逐批進貨逐批加工所以我們檢驗是不是要改成一批次一供應來源一用途提高檢驗的頻率第二個第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
726.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
746.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個有沒有可能我們應該要把檢驗要預防放在前面所以在檢驗結果出來以前不得放行為什麼他自己也有說啊你看中聯郵指自己自己的聲明第二點他們要啟動每批次郵品委外送驗確保品質合格才可以放行出貨所以他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
748.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
762.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
業者自己說的喔 業者可以做到每批次逐批委外送驗第三點 業者自己說 而後他要加強 加嚴驗收原料及增加自主檢驗頻率 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
763.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
779.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以他們是同意原料就要開始驗了原料就要開始驗了所以在這個狀況裡面在檢驗結果出來以前我們是不是送驗跟加工的時序要把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
781.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
796.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
原料鹹也好原料沒問題啊檢驗結果出來了才可以加工所以這樣才能夠事前預防源頭把關而不要讓他們流入市場大家都吃下肚才在那裡雞腸和下架來不及了然後第三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
798.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
819.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們要講說 你看大型通 它撲貨 撲到我剛才講的大桶的油7.23萬桶小型的2公升的 它可以65萬桶 65萬瓶它撲貨到全台灣 全國市佔率最多的各大通路商裡面所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
820.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
842.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
地方政府到底誰你們應該要求地方政府儘速掌握這65萬坪或者是幾萬坪他的完整的流向到底撲霍到哪裡通路商要告訴我們吧盡快公告通路商大概大家都中啦老實說啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
844.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
866.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
可是大家的聲明出來都說我們沒有如果18公升算起來7萬多桶 大家都說沒有 不然是誰買的 不知道大家出來說我們沒有 不然是誰吃的 不知道所以在這裡 我要講就是18公升的大桶油餐飲業 食品加工業 團善要如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
869.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
881.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
知道他們到底是到哪裡去了 流向因為我們就是要知道可是業者 大家出來自清的都說沒有沒有 到底是誰有 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
883.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
909.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那我現在就是要問第五個 大家談過的這批的問題的汙染 或不是汙染它的問題的來源是什麼問題的來源是什麼所以我們的追溯追蹤系統要求他們保存原材料 半成品和成品來源還要建立原料 半成品 成品供應來源及流向的追溯追蹤系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
910.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
937.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
你們這樣子追 有追出來流向了嗎都全部都流出 都追出來現在就是在按照這樣去追不是 如果業者沒有公佈業者如果沒有公佈 我們不是要必登嗎不是一定要追溯追蹤要登嗎那我們的系統勾結了出來嗎目前是在持續的勾結因為我們昨天知道這件事情在進行當中那確確的數字跟方向再跟委員做回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
939.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
964.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
平常只要現在我再問你一個最根本就是說一般如果他們自己自主檢驗異常他們的標準流程要怎麼處理自主檢驗異常那個部分的原料就不能夠張作是原料來做供應不是啦他們有沒有SOP他們需不需要匯到中央來讓你們知道主動通報你們SOP可不可以告訴我一次是怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
965.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
989.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
當業者自主通報 自主檢驗有異常他就必須到我們的飛燈系統裡面通報通報像昨天 我們這次的通報分別在三個時間昨天6月30號下午4點到昨天下午3點 四家陸陸續續就把他們的沒有通報有什麼罰則 第幾條目前我們通報的罰則是按照食安法是3萬到300萬的罰則3萬到300萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
993.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1011.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
好現在部長你們要想一想他這個問題的解釋第一次合格下游檢驗不合格然後他在第二次在驗然後才發現不合格那這樣子會不會讓自主檢驗的社會信任度破功因為自己沒有下游這一環如果沒有南橋這一環這個事情就沒了就可能就沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1018.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1036.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
大家都吃下去了那仰賴這個是這樣對嗎所以我問你最後一個問題我們能不能有官方的對於高風險的最源頭影響大眾最重要的其中一個就是油品的我們應該要有更多的後市場監測是由官方官方應該要有頻率 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1044.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1053.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
某種程度的頻率的後市場監測要求各地方政府每個月就要就高風險的每都要去抽都要驗經常抽經常驗如果這次沒有南橋我們就沒有就合格就通過去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1061.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1086.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那接下來南橋不做難道就沒有人要做嗎我們政府應該要扛起這個責任後市場監測後市場監測你們有什麼計畫跟委員說明其實我們過去就是三級評管除了他自己檢驗外部檢驗另外還有一個我們會有抽驗從四月發生到現在抽驗的頻率啦你們抽驗的頻率是多麼低啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1087.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1095.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
對 就是我們從這個事件因為我們都會按照風險來嘛那從發生這個事情我相信後面我們就會來檢討一天這個廠可以生產600噸的油品600噸的風險就每天每天600噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1102.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1120.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
然後你這樣子一年抽一次這不行啊 後市場監測我們現在要求你後市場監測不要靠南橋要靠我們政府每年要求地方政府固定的半個月一個月經常去市場去通路商抽油經常監測 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1122.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1147.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
好嗎 可以嗎可以 我跟委員說明我們會整個把這個調查清楚之後再來做後面的補強但是基本上也是要啊對啊對啊 後市場監測後市場監測頻率啊 強度啊 都要加強讓他看怎麼設計才能夠真的發揮作用啦對啦 要有政府的角色啊不可以每個人都 要不然難求就沒有啊好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1150.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1152.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
好 謝謝林淑雯委員發言 現在休息十分鐘 |