| IVOD_ID |
170039 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170039 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-19-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-17T12:01:12+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-17T12:15:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:05 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d79496a9ef369d5fa419303f535967f96bbd52fc739e0447e8dc8e5a0085aab862af07d6823bbab05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:01:12 - 12:15:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管 ：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金及核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)
【所列預算提案於115年6月25日(星期四)下午5時截止收件】
【6月17日及6月18日二天一次會】） |
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841.21596875 |
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841.57034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[238].speaker |
SPEAKER_01 |
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843.61221875 |
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845.09721875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 主席謝謝 麻煩請經濟部工部長好 請工部長好 部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
33.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
美國商會發布2026年台灣白皮書那其中對於我們很重要AI的成長他是高度的支持跟注意但是他也講到說AI成長的話台灣有個很大隱憂什麼隱憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
37.168 |
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59.796 |
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因為全世界都一樣 因為電力上來全世界都一樣呢 它在台灣我現在討論美國商會台灣白皮書嘛兩個部分嘛 第一美國商會專不專業經濟部重不重視 第二這一個白皮書它有沒有任何的這個政黨色彩 沒有嘛它就是一個外商對於台灣投資的一個報告嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
60.316 |
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77.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那很重要嘛 裡面他有講到是說電力問題是 甚至有講到說可能是國安層級嘛是不是 台灣面臨到供應中斷時的緩衝能力以及供應供給的彈性明顯不足嘛這個是報告裡面有講到 已經媒體有報導了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
77.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
95.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以不用說在這邊那是不是對照不管是我們賴清德總統還是我們民進黨政府過去一而再再三強調2032以前台灣都不用缺電大家放心但很明顯的很顯然的美國商會並不買單並不接受嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
96.261 |
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111.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以說他提出來一個質疑跟提出來一個提醒其實我覺得部長您先耐心聽一下本席的結論我覺得這個是不分藍綠黨派在野執政都要面對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
111.801 |
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134.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我是在野黨但是我也不希望美國商會跟我們講是說台灣的電力供應不足啊我也希望補齊啊所以應該是看到這樣子的一個建議看到這樣的一個提醒趕快去想是說我們還可以怎麼樣來做而不是又要再扯說沒有啦平行失控啦兩個世界啦台灣就是反正我們賴政府很英明神武啊要電電就有啊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
138.2 |
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157.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我可以說明嗎來說明一下謝謝因為我看了他們這一次反而比較強調的是韌性的部分電網韌性還有安全的部分這個兩個是強化起來那我說事實上我們過去來講把電網韌性啊或者是分散式能源啊安全的能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
159.674 |
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184.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個韌性跟安全已經提升到安全等級這個國安等級這個本來就是所以我們這個CIA的這個關鍵基礎建設已經把各個電廠事實上視為關鍵基礎正式加強防備然後有分散式的電源讓這個韌性可以增加那我想我們這個部分都有在做當然如果有還有不足我們可以來努力可以來強化部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
185 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
192.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那個報告我聽你這樣講啦說實在我尊重你的專業但我很明顯的報告其實看起來你是沒有看啦為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
194.861 |
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220.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你一直在講我們台灣內部的狀況人家其實裡面報告直指的是我們現在的能源發電結構是有問題的我們長期95%是依賴火力發電包括50%的燃氣以及30%的燃煤而它裡面特別提到是說有供應不足的緩衝能力跟彈性明顯不足是因為我們依賴進口的ING廠已經變成是主要來源 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
221.801 |
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235.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
高度依賴進口的發電結構讓台灣容易受到地緣政治的衝突而影響能源供給中斷人家講的是這個結果我剛剛也給你時間了結果你一直在講說我們國內的供應的狀況公罵牛不相干啦你真的是牛頭不對馬嘴啦來啦 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
245.522 |
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260.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
第二個部分我先請教一下來我先請教一下我們看到說因為現在台電這個虧損超過3600億那也要比照中油模式由政府擔保透過八大公股銀行來提供3000億的專案融資來維持營運確定了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
265.949 |
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289.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個的確是行政院跟央行有在協助 沒有錯是 但我看到是經濟部主導啊因為它主要是我們台電公司 對 兩個部分嘛第一台電虧損3600億這是事實那現在要跟八大公股銀行這邊來算是借錢啦融資或借錢啦 對 但是它主要是那還有提出來有一個媒體先講是說是中華郵政的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
291.018 |
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314.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那我今天在樓上交通委員會我也特別問了中華郵政董事長中華郵政董事長是說他們是用儲金的方式定存給八大公共銀行所以八大公共銀行拿定存的錢再來融資給台電好 那不管怎麼樣啊都是用戶都是全民買單可是我們要問的是說這一筆錢有辦法回嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
315.56 |
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328.697 |
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有辦法償還嗎當然有 因為它是貸款所以它符合金融的相關的規定都符合半年所以我們貸款期要多久貸款期現在三年那三年的還款計畫現在有出來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
330.419 |
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356.81 |
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所有的這個營運資金都是這樣他短期債了你還了以後你可以再借沒問題 我也說現在本席要問的是有借有還再借不難啊我也期待你講到這一點啊所以說這個就是交通委員會 千計委員會跟交通委員會這邊都要一起來把關啊那我想問的是說現在來我想問的是說現在這個還款計畫會不會拿出來會不會經過立法院送審還是直接你們就是講好就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
358.8 |
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385.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
應該是不用吧跟委員報告因為他這個是給他一個額度三年之內他隨時可以借但借的時候他的期限是只有一年誰規定的你今年這樣子就虧損了三千多億說實在話如果說是民間公司如果說是民間公司我沒有政府當保人今天看起來是政府當莊家政府當保人壓著公股銀行說你們一定要借給台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
385.922 |
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406.002 |
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如果說是今天是一般的銀行啊他去看到一家公司突然間過去表現良好然後今年突然虧損了三千多億啊虧損到自己的資本額啦我覺得任何銀行都不敢放款但是就只有我們台電非常偉大因為有一個民進黨政府當靠山當後盾所以才壓著銀行這邊來給嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
410.247 |
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422.044 |
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虧損 事實上它吸收了超過六千億那現在是零千億 零三千億部長 你要這樣講內行人講外行人的話那就不對了過去我們沒有用總預算來去補排電的虧損嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
423.687 |
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447.686 |
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補了超過2500億、3000億吧每一次特別預算2023年特別預算是不是有1500億就是給台電虧損那個時候第十屆的時候民進黨國會多數的時候是不是要通過多少預算來撥補台電虧損就通過多少預算我都不想講你都是拿人民的納稅錢去補這個漏洞那現在我們一直講 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
448.84 |
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457.175 |
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大家能源問題共同面對但是我們也一直提醒所以我們也一直提醒說你的能源結構發電結構要不要檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
460.179 |
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480.996 |
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不檢討美國商會跟你講能源結構有嚴重的問題可能會有地緣政治的關係也充耳不聞然後現在台電持續的虧損你們也不檢討我們有在進行你要怎麼做呢我第一個講能源來源的部分對外能源來源的部分我們會分散 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
482.017 |
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498.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個是安全上的一個部分你還是用火力發電你還是火力全開嘛你還是燃煤燃氣嘛為什麼再生能源要不斷的發展起來再生能源發展多久了還要提再生能源業員之委員剛剛講的那個風電再生能源它是一個永久性的事業它可以再生啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
503.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
504.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們現在很穩健 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
524.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
546.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
來啦 最後一個問題如果很穩健的話就不會虧損六千億了啦來 部長如果是照顧民生 那個要分開如果說真的穩健的話就不會虧損六千億過去沒有虧損那麼多啦部長你要成口舌之快可以你慢慢去成啦但是部長最後一個問題我覺得議員 市委員剛剛也點到一個重點是本席最近也看到也關注的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
546.864 |
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567.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
就是有很多民眾也開始有疑慮就是說現在如果說新的這個相關的住宅他是需要有這個太陽能光電板在屋頂的話那會牽扯到兩個部分一個是架設的這個成本其實某種程度上也是轉嫁到每個住戶這邊要去平均分攤所以可能會造成房價的一個上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
568.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
590.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那第二個部分是你架設了光電板之後想請教到底我們的規劃因為現在有一般民間的光電板它是賣電回來給台電台電再去做一個輸出那如果說未來是各家戶上面屋頂有光電板的話是到底是要賣回給台電還是直接供這一個住戶來就使用我們目前的方向是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
591.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
613.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
都可以所以說是住戶自由選擇他們選擇區 區權會自由選擇對區權會自由選擇那這樣子會不會造成這個整體的不管是施工成本或是後續推動的一個困難應該還好因為它是賣電因為賣電有賣電的好處那他們自用自用有自用的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
615.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
635.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們都尊重我們提出來這個問題並不是無地放矢而是因為你們現在一個行政命令就要全部大家這樣配合但是大家馬上提到很多都是實際的狀況一個是北台灣相對來說陰雨天可能比較多但是相對來講的建築 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
638.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
664.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
數量北台灣會是比較高的所以如果說一體試用的話北台灣有沒有辦法跟南台灣都有這樣子的一個規模的能源發電效率這打一個問號第二個如果說是要賣電給台電的話那這樣子那個管路的牽線以及如果說是要用住家自己使用的話那就要每一個住家都要有儲能裝置這又是另外一個不同的一個方向第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
665.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
683.9 |
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因為他連結到病網裡面去你先聽我講完如果你剛講了嘛 業源支援也說了如果說你們認為是說裝光電板的話是增加韌性那增加韌性你就要有儲能裝置如果說這個儲能裝置沒有的話你會變成是你的增加韌性只有增加在白天晚上你沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
684.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
712.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
而且另外一點是這個光電板它本來就是白天的時候可能住戶都不在家裡用電量比較少你白天在吸收能源的時候你就是存來讓住戶晚上回到家裡的時候能夠來做使用這個是實際的層面我相信你我下了班之後會回家所以你想一下你的生活方式是什麼你就知道是說現在推動這個政策未來會面臨到什麼樣的狀況以及第三最重要的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
713.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
735.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這一個光電板現在即便是交貨了那是完好的但用了10年呢用了15年呢破損了 壞掉了 故障了 維修了後續誰來負責區權會啊 住戶自己啊是啊 那這些都是成本增加結果我們現在用一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
736.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
764.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
行政命令就要求大家都要遵守 但是你沒有讓住戶有選擇與否的權利而你可以得到的效果利益是什麼 不知道還有最重要的是不是一直講說台灣不缺電嗎你怎麼連這種電剛剛我們朝偉站起來 我就尊重朝偉 但是朝偉講到連300坪的面積的這個光電板的電 你都都要跳那代表什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
765.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
792.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
代表台灣現在是10天的沒有啦 這增加任性啦對啊任何需要任何的店員任何的來賓任性就是一個替代概念啦任性的意義就代表是說我現在就是沒有那麼足夠所以我才要各自大家自己自立自強啦講不客氣的這就套一句我都不想再講這就套一句 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
793.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
816.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
前總統蔡英文就講你們自己要自立自強啊台電可能沒有辦法給你那麼足夠的電啊所以我現在政府就用一紙行政命令要你各住戶各建築自立自強自己準備光電板來準備發電啊這就是國人現在的感覺我再次強調因為這是內政部跟經濟部共同提出來的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
818.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
840.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
本席也會在內政委員會跟內政部就較這個議題但是我真的很持平的很誠心的請部長再思考一下我剛剛講這幾點如果沒有辦法解決或確實會造成更多的民怨的情況要不要貿然的一味的不顧意見的持續推動部長思考一下好不好謝謝好 謝謝侯孟愷 |