| IVOD_ID |
169838 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169838 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-23-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-04T11:38:41+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-04T11:46:45+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:04 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1e7ee030b58e6bfe31081ac846d110d98ee7e0de9923b3dc704f71fce9d4a7560e7e88b7d6e8a5905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:38:41 - 11:46:45 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長、交通部鐵道局局長及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長就「5月25日高鐵班次嚴重誤點事件」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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賴委員士葆 |
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陳部長世凱 |
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賴委員士葆 |
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賴委員士葆 |
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陳部長世凱 |
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賴委員士葆 |
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賴委員士葆 |
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陳部長世凱 |
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陳部長世凱 |
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賴委員士葆 |
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賴委員士葆 |
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賴委員士葆 |
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賴委員士葆 |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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史董事長哲 |
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賴委員士葆 |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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史董事長哲 |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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史董事長哲 |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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史董事長哲 |
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SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[154].speaker_name |
陳部長世凱 |
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SPEAKER_02 |
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陳部長世凱 |
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0.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
8.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
有請交通部的陳部長以及高鐵的董事長好 請陳部長是董事長委員好我先請教陳部長因為前面有些委員有提了問題我也關心這個題目就是有關於酒駕跟獨駕的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
56.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
是不是我們行政部門是調整部署裡確定說如果什麼情況之下我就直接沒入他的交通工具不管是他的個人的還是借人的向委員報告確實我們朝這個方向在研擬我們希望說未來只要趕獨駕的人他使用的運具不管是摩托車或者是汽車的部分我們都朝沒入的方向前進什麼時候可以確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
79.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
針對不管車主是不是獨駕的本身這位獨駕者我們都要默入那這個部分我們在六月底之前我們一定會把案子送到行政院那便由行政院轉送到我們的立法院由大院來這個做審議你也贊成我再請問一下你覺得酒駕比較可惡還是獨駕比較可惡 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
81.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
111.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我之前也在委員會上面宣示過毒價跟酒價脫鉤因為毒價比酒價還要嚴重很多變且他已經先犯法了吸毒這件事已經本身先犯法了犯法之後你還使用運劇那其實這變成一個犯罪的工具所以現在我們很多委員在修這個法基本上毒價的罰則應該比酒價的高是沒有錯我們已經脫鉤處理所以也會比酒價高很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
111.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
133.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
要高很多可以高到無期徒刑這個是刑罰的部分我們尊重法務部那邊對於刑罰罰則的部分我想請施政司長一起來我們看到這次的高鐵的事情高鐵已經到底是國有民營 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
134.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
158.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
國有民營 那我看到你說針對這個事情不過你要賠了幾千萬 那就賠了吧你還要檢討 其實我看了一下歷史的資料過去的軌道事件 高鐵幾乎是零了我們績效是非常好的那這次怎麼會發生這個問題 有人就講了有人就講了 所以請部長也提一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
159.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
171.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
因為從2015年那個時候2015年我們把那個責救的連線拉長了讓高鐵火起來那時候差點倒掉整個來說的話變國有 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
175.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
189.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
民營國有民營的情況底下就慢慢就績效就差了大家就是公家的感覺這種感覺就出來那我現在問你題目是你說你要投入兩千億請問你資本額多少我是說資本額大概是這個七百多億七百多億你要投兩千億喔錢怎麼來 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
199.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
218.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
高鐵當然是一個高資本密集的高鐵當然是透過這個資本的捨貸嘛就是透過融資啦高鐵平時其實就有相關高額的建築你們現在已經有負債八成了你現在負債多少錢你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
219.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
236.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
總負債你總負債超過三千億的是沒錯對啊那你現在債兩千億的負債五千億的部長聽著喔這個東西今天高鐵人家借你錢你說你三條路只有資金我不知道你有這麼多錢你只有資金多少只有資金多少你可能不知道這可能要查一下要查一下來 講一下吧跟他講一下吧只有資金多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
248.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
265.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你要不然就發公司債不然就跟聯合銀行授信不管是公司債或者是銀行授信就銀行借你錢主要就是看你右邊那一位嘛就交通部嘛因為你是交通部啊等於是交通部的國營事業嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
266.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
280.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以你就可以借你錢嘛那你這個兩千億我不知道你這兩千億貨在什麼地方啊你要這個今天報告寫一個我看你嚇一跳兩千億好大一筆勒你的資本會委員可不可以讓我說好來我們在二零一五年進行採改的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
285.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
299.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
雖然把折舊年限從35年變70年但是同時交通部鐵道局也有新的財改模組的財務計畫而這個財改模組財務計畫當中在70年當中其實也有計算出資產重置重建的財務 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
321.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以這兩千億並不是無中生有我今天講的只是說我們優先把電力耗資跟舊車這將近要花兩千億的資產重置我們要評估討率是不是提前這不是新的事項它本來就在財務模組當中有只是面臨到這個事件我們再評估討率是不是要提前 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
334.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那什麼時候要2000億要划出去是 所以我說我在評估考慮要提前我連期程都沒有提出來但是原本的35年的折舊設計我認為是到了應該要檢討的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
337.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
342.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就是2000億你要投入哪些地方啦我剛剛特別講了電力耗資跟車輛耗資車輛這個就要2000億喔這三項就要2000億喔這三項應該不只2000億 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
358.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
384.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這在原本的財務計畫當中都有只是當時是在35年之後再進行資產重置我現在認為說有關於是不是35年之後再進行資產重置這件事情應該要評估檢討好 那等於是把35年提前就對了我認為每一個項目去評估檢討避免民眾覺得你這樣沒有回答我啦你具體告訴我就是說這個計畫什麼時候可以出來啦我們大概會用半年的時間來檢討這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
385.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
404.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
就是今年底可以出來是吧對今年底可以出來兩千億用在什麼地方說不定不夠再加還有騎乘的問題對還有騎乘的問題另外一個東西我關心因為我時間到了我就不要拖太多時間了請部長回答一下我們到宜蘭那一段是不是高鐵宜蘭確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
407.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
424.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
2036可以通車嗎向委員報告目前這個案子行政院還沒核定等核定好之後我們才有辦法去確定他的整個通車的時間屏東呢屏東的部分也還沒有核定所以這兩個都還沒有核定這個宜蘭要花多少錢你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
425.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
其實他還在浮動當中接近四千億四千億左右實際上他真正在開始做了之後整個價格應該會應該會再往上了所以整個交通部這個像高鐵像這個不管是在往南沿屏東往北沿宜蘭都是交通部要買單了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
449.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
472.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們針對務實延伸的計畫其實都有在進行我是最後一點提醒這個石董市長啊這個我看起來2000億沒有你是一個大概印象你沒有具體的來講就是2000億主要主要你是要發債還是主要就是跟銀行接一個答案我就下去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
474.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
479.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
高鐵本來就有發公司債業 本來就有跟銀行連帶我想會依照原本的制度來進行這個規劃好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝賴司發委員 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-06-04T11:38:42.360000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-06-04T11:38:44.662000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席及各位先進，有請交通部陳部長以及高鐵史董事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-06-04T11:38:44.762000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-06-04T11:38:45.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請陳部長、史董事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-06-04T11:38:45.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-06-04T11:38:45.422000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-06-04T11:38:45.462000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-06-04T11:38:47.964000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
我先請教陳部長，因為前面有一些委員提了問題，我也關心這個題目。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-06-04T11:38:48.925000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-06-04T11:39:23.570000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
有關酒駕跟毒駕的部分，在行政部門是不是交通部這裡確定，如果在什麼情況之下就直接沒入其交通工具，不管是他個人的，還是借別人的？ |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.825 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-06-04T11:39:24.311000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-06-04T11:39:37.519000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
向委員報告，確實我們有朝這個方向在研擬，希望未來對於只要敢毒駕的人，他使用的運具，不管是摩托車或者是汽車，我們都朝沒入的方向前進。並且…… |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.885 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-06-04T11:39:37.519000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-06-04T11:39:37.799000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
什麼時候可以確定？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-06-04T11:39:39.961000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-06-04T11:39:45.305000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
不管車主是不是毒駕本身，也就是這位毒駕者，我們都要沒入。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.76 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-06-04T11:39:45.926000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-06-04T11:39:55.414000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
這個部分我們在6月底之前一定會把案子送到行政院，並由行政院轉送到立法院，由大院來審議。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.974 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-06-04T11:39:55.414000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-06-04T11:39:56.055000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
你也贊成？ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-06-04T11:39:58.176000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-06-04T11:40:00.679000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
我想請問你一下，你覺得酒駕比較可惡還是毒駕比較可惡？ |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-06-04T11:40:02.841000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-06-04T11:40:10.046000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
我之前也在委員會上宣示過，毒駕跟酒駕要脫鉤，因為毒駕比酒駕還要嚴重很多。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.848 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-06-04T11:40:10.046000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-06-04T11:40:11.327000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
對啊，還要嚴重，毒駕比較嚴重。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-06-04T11:40:11.327000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-06-04T11:40:21.334000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
並且他已經先犯法了，吸毒這件事本身就已經先犯法了，犯法之後你還使用運具，其實這就變成是一個犯罪的工具，當然比酒駕…… |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.769 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-06-04T11:40:22.094000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-06-04T11:40:28.358000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
所以現在很多委員在修這個法，基本上毒駕的罰責應該比酒駕來得高嘛？ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-06-04T11:40:28.839000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-06-04T11:40:32.161000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
是，沒有錯，我們已經脫鉤處理了，所以也會比酒駕高很多。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.913 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-06-04T11:40:32.801000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-06-04T11:40:33.401000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
要高很多？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-06-04T11:40:34.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-06-04T11:40:35.782000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
可以高到無期徒刑？ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-06-04T11:40:37.083000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-06-04T11:40:41.605000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
這個是刑罰的部分，我們尊重法務部那邊對刑罰罰則部分的規定。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-06-04T11:40:44.766000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-06-04T11:40:48.748000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
好，我想請史董事長一起來。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.636 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-06-04T11:40:48.748000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-06-04T11:41:02.374000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
我們看到這次高鐵的事情，高鐵到底已是國有民營了，我看到你說針對這個事情，不管是賠了幾千萬，那個就賠了嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.872 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-06-04T11:41:03.374000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-06-04T11:41:04.354000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
你以後要好好檢討。 |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-06-04T11:41:04.354000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-06-04T11:41:15.739000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
我其實看了一下歷史的資料，過去的軌道事件高鐵幾乎是零，我們的績效是非常好的，這一次怎麼會發生這個問題？ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.936 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-06-04T11:41:15.739000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-06-04T11:41:31.932000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
有人就講了，請部長也聽一下，因為從2015年那個時候，我們把折舊的年限拉長讓高鐵活起來，那個時候高鐵差點倒掉啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.787 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-06-04T11:41:32.032000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-06-04T11:41:45.235000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
整個來說的話就是變成國有民營，在國有民營的情況底下，績效就慢慢變差了，大家就是變成公家的感覺，這種感覺就出來了。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.804 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-06-04T11:41:45.255000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-06-04T11:41:47.957000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
我現在要問你的題目是，你說你要投入2,000億，請問你的資本額是多少？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.821 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-06-04T11:41:48.077000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-06-04T11:41:48.417000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
實收資本額大概是七百多億。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-06-04T11:41:48.417000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-06-04T11:41:50.038000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
七百多億，但你要投入2,000億，錢怎麼來？ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:00.902000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:03.585000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
高鐵當然是一個高資本密集…… |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:03.585000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:05.666000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
你2,000億要怎麼來？ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:05.666000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:07.468000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
當然是透過資本的申貸。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:07.468000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:09.410000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
什麼東西？ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:09.410000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:11.632000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
就是透過融資。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:11.632000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:12.773000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
要借2,000億？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:12.773000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:14.915000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
高鐵平時其實就有相關高額的金額…… |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.867 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:15.135000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:19.198000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
你們現在已經負債八成了，現在負債多少錢，你知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:20.632000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:22.933000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
你的總負債已經超過3,000億。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.545 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:23.193000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:24.093000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
是，沒錯。對啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:24.633000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:28.434000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
你現在再有2,000億的負債，就是5,000億，部長，聽著喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.684 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:29.235000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:34.796000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
今天人家借高鐵錢，你說你有三條路，其中自有資金的部分，我不知道你有這麼多錢，你的自有資金有多少？ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.744 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:35.096000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:35.276000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
你可能不知道！ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:35.296000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:35.676000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
可能要查一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:35.837000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-06-04T11:42:37.337000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
哪一位來跟他講一下自有資金有多少錢？ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.765 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-06-04T11:42:49.550000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-06-04T11:43:19.912000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
不然就是發行公司債，不然就是聯合銀行授信，不管是公司債或是銀行授信，就是銀行借你錢，此時主要是看你右邊那一位，就是交通部，因為你等於是交通部的國營事業，所以人家可以借你錢，但我不知道你這2,000億要花在什麼地方，今天報告寫了這個，我看了嚇一跳，2,000億是好大一筆，你的資本額…… |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.825 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-06-04T11:43:20.053000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-06-04T11:43:21.014000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
委員可不可以讓我說明？ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-06-04T11:43:21.014000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-06-04T11:43:22.014000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
好，說明一下用在什麼地方。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.091 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-06-04T11:43:21.114000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-06-04T11:43:43.515000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
我們在2015年進行財改的時候，雖然把折舊年限從35年變70年，但是同時交通部鐵道局也有新的財改模組財務計畫，而這個財改模組財務計畫當中，在70年當中，其實也有計算出資產重置、重建的財務，所以這2,000億並不是無中生有。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.978 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-06-04T11:43:43.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-06-04T11:44:02.451000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
我今天要講的是，我們把電力、號誌跟舊車擺在優先，而將近要花2,000億的資產重置我們要評估、考慮是不是提前，這不是新的事項，這本來就有在財務模組當中，只是在面臨這個事件後，我們有在評估、考慮是不是要提前。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.784 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-06-04T11:44:03.239000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-06-04T11:44:06.342000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
什麼時候這2,000億要花出去？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.727 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-06-04T11:44:07.142000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-06-04T11:44:15.248000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
所以我說我們在評估、考慮要提前，我連期程都沒有提出來，但是原本35年的折舊設計我認為是到了應該要檢討的時候。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.979 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-06-04T11:44:18.225000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-06-04T11:44:20.147000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
你還是沒有回答我，就是這2,000億你要投入在哪些地方？ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-06-04T11:44:20.448000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-06-04T11:44:21.249000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
我剛剛特別講了，就是電力、號誌跟車輛。 |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-06-04T11:44:22.090000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-06-04T11:44:23.251000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
這三項就要2,000億？ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-06-04T11:44:23.371000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-06-04T11:44:50.891000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
這三項應該不只2,000億，這在原本的財務計畫當中都有，只是當時是要35年之後再進行資產重置，我現在是認為，有關於是不是35年之後再進行資產重置這件事情應該要評估、檢討。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.958 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-06-04T11:44:51.891000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-06-04T11:44:54.012000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
你等於是把35年提前就對了？ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-06-04T11:44:54.172000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-06-04T11:44:57.373000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
我認為每一個項目去做評估、檢討，避免民眾覺得…… |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-06-04T11:44:57.473000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:03.355000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
你這樣並沒有回答我，請你具體告訴我，就是這個計畫什麼時候可以提出來？ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.903 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:04.015000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:05.256000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
我們大概會用半年的時間來檢討這件事情。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:06.441000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:08.703000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
就是今年底可以提出來，對吧？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:08.703000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:13.246000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
今年底可以提出來，說明這2,000億用在什麼地方，說不定不夠的話，還要再加？ |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.7 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:13.987000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:15.028000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
還有期程的問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:15.028000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:16.509000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
對，還有期程的問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:16.509000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:29.595000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
另外一個我關心的東西，因為我的時間到了，就不要占用太多的時間，請部長回答一下高鐵到宜蘭那一段是不是確定2036年可以通車？ |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.811 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:29.595000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:37.522000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
向委員報告，目前這個案子行政院還沒核定，等核定之後，我們才有辦法去確定整個通車的時間。 |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:37.522000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:37.963000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
屏東呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:39.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:40.445000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
屏東的部分也還沒有核定。 |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:40.785000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:41.966000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
所以這兩個都還沒有核定。 |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:44.349000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:45.390000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
那宜蘭的部分要花多少錢你知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0.733 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:46.886000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2026-06-04T11:45:56.870000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
其實這還在浮動當中，接近4,000億，實際上真正開始做了之後，整個價格應該會…… |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.935 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2026-06-04T11:45:56.870000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2026-06-04T11:46:08.734000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
應該會再往上，所以高鐵不管是往南延伸到屏東或是往北延伸到宜蘭，都是交通部要買單，我只講到這裡…… |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0.674 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2026-06-04T11:46:10.655000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2026-06-04T11:46:13.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
我們針對務實延伸的計畫其實都有在…… |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2026-06-04T11:46:13.598000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2026-06-04T11:46:31.095000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
我最後一點提醒史董事長，這2,000億你只是提了一個大概印象，並沒有具體來講，就是這2,000億主要是用發債還是主要是跟銀行借？ |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2026-06-04T11:46:31.996000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2026-06-04T11:46:33.257000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
你給我一個答案，我就下去了，主要是發公司債還是什麼呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
0.375 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
史董事長哲 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2026-06-04T11:46:35.842000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2026-06-04T11:46:40.611000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
高鐵本來就有發公司債，本來也就有跟銀行聯貸，我想會依照原本的制度來進行這個規劃。好吧！謝謝。謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0.86 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
陳部長世凱 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2026-06-04T11:46:40.611000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2026-06-04T11:46:40.631000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2026-06-04T11:46:40.631000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2026-06-04T11:46:40.771000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
謝謝賴士葆委員，謝謝部長，謝謝董事長。 |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0.562 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2026-06-04T11:46:41.271000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2026-06-04T11:46:44.413857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
接下來請萬美玲委員發言。 |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0 |