| IVOD_ID |
169761 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169761 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-23-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-03T10:08:05+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-03T10:22:53+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5329b193fad041256ac65197dc85cba6a8e069b60cc25a5f585712d3831fe5f0efb3babcbf3bc8885ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:08:05 - 10:22:53 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。
二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。
三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。
四、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算。
五、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算。
六、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管有線廣播電視事業發展基金預算。
【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一至六預算提案截止收件時間：6月10日下午4時】） |
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主席謝謝 麻煩請我們林部長跟NCC代理陳主委好 謝謝 請林部長跟陳代理主委 |
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好幾個議題快速再一次請教其實剛剛部長講很多委員都關心電子菸獨駕的問題很嚴重因為電子菸最重要是它不只是違法的工具它更是現在有可能是毒品吸食的載具是但剛剛部長我必須要糾正你一件事不是只有所謂的黑化這個本席從過去到現在已經質詢了很多次 |
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甚至不用黑化只要打電子煙三個字就可以搜尋得到這才是本席覺得最離譜的事情好 那我請教如果說一個搜尋引擎它都可以讓不用黑化或說它隨意只要打你剛剛講這個關鍵字就可以搜尋得到這個違法的網站來販售的話那個平台有沒有責任平台有沒有責任平台有沒有責任 |
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對就譬如說我也之前也跟委員講就是說譬如說我們今天就要討論電子菸那如果說Google把這個電子菸的關鍵字通通屏蔽掉的話那我們今天的對話那個Google也搜尋不到平台有沒有責任沒有這個是 |
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平台當然是要想辦法配合我們這個合作但是如果說在做關鍵字封鎖這個事情基本上從過去到現在本市已經提出來了嘛本市已經強調了嘛如果說你今天你平台要收費我相信這一些違法的業者他也有付費給平台他的關鍵字才會跑到前面嘛 |
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那一樣啊如果說平台今天他有收費他有收取廣告費用那他就應該要有把關的義務啊怎麼會讓違法的網站我們就問毒品能不能在台灣販賣 |
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不行嘛槍枝能不能在台灣販賣不行嘛那一樣是非法的電子菸卻可以因為他附了廣告給平台就可以讓他的搜尋跑到前面請問委員是哪一個平台我們去跟他溝通你剛剛講了啊Google啊Google你這個search第一個他不是廣告的話那我現在講說Google譬如說他搜尋電子菸不是不是我們是為了本席剛剛特別查了就是本席剛剛特別查了 |
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不管是你剛剛講我就講的電子菸三個字或者是你剛剛講的那關鍵字我不想要再贅述是因為我不想要幫人家打廣告我也不想要讓大家知道說原來還有這個黑化可以找這個管道 |
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莫名其妙嘛 但重點在於是說今天 今天部長 這完全不好笑我不知道為什麼你還可以這樣子嬉皮笑臉你每次都說我嬉皮笑臉 但是你講這個話 這個就是苦笑 這不是嬉皮笑臉部長 兩個事情 第一 從以前到現在 苦笑 全民才要苦笑 |
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被毒蟲撞死的那些無辜的百姓才要苦笑你們是主管機關從以前到現在我們都一直一而再再提醒你如果說找平台過來講我們會配合去處理這個事情我們管的是網路平台就是網路平台是你們管所以說現在我才會那麼的要求就是網路上不應該要可以公開很容易讓人家買到 |
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我以為有什麼具體的建議我從以前到現在我就講過了你應該要開發平台啊開發平台平台如果說有賺取廣告費用你應該開發平台你應該也平台更多的責任啊有做了嗎請問哪一條如果它違法我們一定會開發 |
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沒有違反我們陰害防治法嗎沒有違反我們相關的陰害防治法這個是為服務相關的法令嗎如果說是違反了陰害防治法所以到現在我們今天這樣講這個就是我過去到現在一直認為說民進黨政府就在踢皮球 |
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速發部衛福部你看要分那麼細這個是衛福部管的這是速發部管的速發部雖然管平台但是它上面賣電子菸我們也看到了也可以搜尋得到了但是速發部就說那是別人管的那要這樣子政府幹嘛 |
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266.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
要成立一個速發部幹嘛那跟以前沒有成立速發部的時候不是一樣嗎我們回到這個問題 您講的問題是說本市從以前到現在就一直告訴你說你應該有公權利益 你應該要來處理這些工具你應該要處理 你應該要讓這些平台知道不能讓我們的國人那麼輕易的可以搜尋得到你認為這些土產是在哪裡搜尋到 哪裡買到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
289.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
307.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們來處理我們這邊衛福部就是你從頭到尾沒有處理違反了我們這邊訴發部所主管的這些法律我們一定會開罰那但是如果是違反了煙害防治法照剛才委員所說的因為煙害防治法的確就是衛福部主管的能不能開罰這個要看衛福部那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
309.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
327.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這不是踢皮球 這個是政府運作的分工絕對不是政府運作的分工我比你更了解 十幾年前我就在地方政府待過就是因為我了解地方政府 我了解中央政府的運作也因此我才會跟你們講是說你現在這個心態就叫官僚心態 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
328.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
338.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你現在這樣的一個心態就叫踢平球心態你這樣子的心態就叫做是我自炒門泉學習的心態來部長我想請教來部長部長聽好部長聽好本席的問題聽好本席的問題所以如果說我在Google可以搜尋的到電子菸然後出現一個非法網站的話那這樣算誰的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
348.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
371.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那衛福部發現通知我們馬上就會讓他下架所以這算誰的責任這個是我們兩個部會的責任啊對啊所以跟你書發部沒有關係嗎打棒球球打到三壘的時候三壘手接到傳給一壘這是三壘手的責任還是一壘手的責任這是三壘手接球是三壘手的責任然後在一壘把這個那個刺殺出局這個是一壘手的責任這個我們就是政府的分工跟打棒球是一樣的那跟你 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
373.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
388.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
沒有關係嗎你在浪費了本席六分鐘的時間從一開始我不開宗明義就講是說如果今天平台我可以搜尋到不用任何的黑話只要打電子煙三個字就可以搜尋到他的官方網站那你還說你沒有責任那我想請教平台有沒有責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
392.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
416.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
平台收取了廣告費用讓這個非法網站可以在他的平台上面優先被收取到有沒有責任有啊 那就對啦所以我不知道速發部部長今天前幾個委員有執政黨的委員所以就大家奄奄細刻刻氣氣的在野黨的委員提出一樣的問題就要這樣子大呼小叫苦笑 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
417.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
428.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我跟你講全民才要苦笑沒有因為你剛才那個有我這個跟你講說實在話有一個人身攻擊啦我沒有人身攻擊從頭到尾我都沒有人身攻擊是你的態度讓全民看到我們不知道速發布在幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
430.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
448.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
過去只會點面線現在只會推卸責任除了這樣你們書發部還要幹嘛我都不想講這種話是因為本席還很尊重所有書發部的同仁但是如果說主事者用這樣的態度本席沒有辦法接受然後我們做了這麼多的政績我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
449.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
477.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個委員應該看一下我真的看不到如果說今天我都還可以用Google直接搜尋電子煙三個字就可以搜尋到非法網站的話你不要跟我講你做了什麼政績來NCC代理主委代理主委是再過兩個月您的任期也到期七位委員的任期都到期那現在到底行政院要用什麼樣的一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
478.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
506.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
來做處理跟我們報告目前因為全責在行政院那邊你也不知道那行政院院長已經違法了一百多天了該怎麼辦因為如果說到了7月31號真的沒有你的任期也到期了是那NCC的組織法裡面我們有講是說有所謂的代理主委制是因為要有委員的資格所以現在還有委員的資格是你們三位嘛那可未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
507.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
528.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
未來如果說假設到7月31委員都沒有資格了那NCC就要停擺了嗎跟委員報告就兩點第一點就是剛剛本會的組織法第五條確實是有委員的時候沒有主委的話是委員來代理但是法律上的唯一解釋就是說沒有寫的部分他並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
529.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
555.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
明文規定說沒有委員的時候那個機關首長是要如何來處理這塊沒有那就回到第二點就是NCC第一屆的時候有那個613號的大法院大法官的解釋就是行政事務的話全國行政事務統一由行政院來掌握所以這一塊就法理上應該是憲政機關就是大院就是立法院跟行政院互動的議題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
556.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
578.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
NCC沒有委員的時候 那機關首長要如何代理這個是大院跟行政院要面對 要互動的議題這不是我們要面對的議題啊這個是行政院已經違法了如果說連違法的行政院院長跟違法行政院都可以這樣子不釋法律無誤的話那我們不知道是說我們要怎麼樣教導國人要依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
579.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
608.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你剛剛還提到是說法令明文規定第四條已經寫非常清楚了第五條寫非常清楚了那現在第五條沒有委員任期才可以有代理那如果說現在七位委員任期全部到期了那還要再找一個沒有委員資格的人來代理嗎現在有人傳是說有可能是有組密來代理啊那未來到最後變成是說我們七位委員都沒有然後只有一位代理 代理的組密 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
609.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
635.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
然後變成是一人的獨立機關一人可以做七個人的獨立機關的事情你覺得有可能會發生這個事情嗎你可以接受嗎以身為NCC的委員代理主委這段時間獨立機關嘛撇開藍綠嘛今天是民進黨執政嘛但哪一天如果說國民黨執政國民黨的人也做那麼荒謬的事情那不管藍綠 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
636.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
661.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你可以接受嗎你可以接受說七個委員都到齊然後沒有任何一個委員獨立機關就讓一個沒有委員的資格的人來代理然後變一人獨立機關各位報告從法律上來解釋如果這個而且6132有您解釋 銜件的指揮監督管理事項是統一行政院來掌握所以這一塊的話代理主我只問你可以接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
662.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
684.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我個人認為應該是說機關能夠運作比較重要然後法理上必須要機關可以運作比較重要所以不用依法行政就法理上也必須要站得住講所以要依法行政嘛任何機關要運作都應為他有法源依據對 法源包括不然我們也不需要訂立所謂的組織法訂立相關的法令啊是沒錯但是法源也包括大法官的解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
686.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
714.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
主委我最後一分鐘啦我只請教因為最近的這個醫美診所的偷拍案非常的嚴峻那本席也提出來就是無線的這些設備不管有限無限設備其實它很大的一個範疇都是在NCC的主管範圍裡面那本席之前也提過像日本韓國其實都有明文的規定就是禁止販售這個所謂的偽裝式的攝影機因為你要做閉路電視要做攝影機你 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
715.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
728.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
就是比如說電視攝影機這個是很清楚的但是有一些業者把它偽裝成時鐘偽裝成布娃娃偽裝成這些部分那可能他就有犯罪的意圖那現在NCC這邊召集相關部會開會討論立場跟建議是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
733.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
761.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好 根委員報告其實這個案子行政院也關心行政院召開至少三次會議那大致方向是就是從四個面向第一個面向都是個案上已經在處理都檢證所在處理的那行為面向那藉由醫美診所相關的後續處理他們也在follow up法務部也在處理第三個是場域的加強管制這部分那不管是運動部還有消防衛福部他們也在處理那剛剛委員提到的是設備面的部分因為剛剛確實你的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
762.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
787.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
確實是因為有些是針孔攝影機後面直接他沒有用RF沒有用攝影機直接接記憶卡那種其實最近的一些個案某些大學的那些其實是屬於這種這種情況之下其實那行政院有初步分工就是主政單位是經濟部那NCC是協助單位就是說這種設備面的進口在邊境管制那邊就是我們跟經濟部標準檢驗局來做把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
787.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
795.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
都是有攝影平台一定要經過NCC的認證沒有攝影平台的部分 標準局也一樣會有處理那現在 我知道不是啊戴主委你講那麼多都講起來我現在問題 我問題很明確吧我們問題是問是說偽裝式的攝影機有人建議說要採取實名制 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
805.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
823.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
有人建議是說要仿照日本韓國就是不得販售那我想要問的是說現在NCC主管機關不管是有社評的是屬於NCC主管嘛沒社評的是屬於經濟部主管嘛但NCC協助嘛但不管怎麼樣你都有責任跟你都有立場那請教一下NCC的態度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
823.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
852.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
是 這個我們是經過相關的行政院開會其實日韓 他們韓國韓國提出過這種立法修說要 發售端實名制提過好幾次但是因為正反的利用正當利用跟違法利用其實都很難區分所以他們都沒有通過因為考量這個正當使用跟違法使用都無法通過所以我們認為說應該是做實際可行一定程度的邊境管制為主就是實名制端 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
854.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
866.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以你要一定的實名管制一定的邊境管制是什麼樣的一個標準本席現在在問最後了我已經要收尾了沒有問題那個最後是不是可以給邊境管制這個部分規範可以給本席一個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
875.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
886.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好 我會順便資料給委員好 本席在這個議題上面還要持續的追蹤因為這關心到是全國大家共同的隱私的一個安全所以說我們一定要嚴格把關 好不好好 沒問題謝謝好 謝謝委員 |