| IVOD_ID |
169714 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169714 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-28T13:30:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-28T13:45:31+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/89665fc2cee9c367d72a42c112caed0f7a79f49b44e074569bd54c157223343e6b1af878bc708cb15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:30:01 - 13:45:31 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查
一、國民黨黨團擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。
二、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。
三、委員林月琴等19人擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。
【僅詢答】【第三案如經復議則不予審查】） |
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好主席謝謝麻煩軍旅次長軍旅次長侯委員好次長好次長 |
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本席應該是在這個委員會講最多次電子菸我們現在是沒有合法任何販售製造等等都有相關罰則我今天上午也看到我們有委員講是說是不是要研議連持有現在都要有罰則那部長也說會最快的速度來研究但最重要是什麼最重要的是電子菸它取得為什麼那麼的容易 |
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36.173 |
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為什麼電子菸在現在台灣社會裡面用Google隨便就可以搜尋這是本席一而再再而三從以前到現在就已經提到的這個畫面是本席剛剛要上來質詢之前一個小時在Google上面打電子菸三個字就可以直接找到在第一頁搜尋就可以直接找到的一個網站次長要不要看一下裡面有什麼分類鉅細米粒啊 |
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各種品牌各種機子各種煙油多少錢我們先看一下上一頁這個價錢多少錢下一頁從400塊到1000多塊不等很便宜啊可以馬上買到來我們看下一頁 |
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119.645 |
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口味包羅萬象這也是之前本席有講過的就是說有這樣的狀況包羅萬象的口味我們先不要看了不然他以為是在幫他們打廣告莫名其妙來 次長本席想要講的是過去我質詢速發部 質詢衛福部質詢教育部 質詢內政部因為都有相關權責但主管機關還是在你衛福部 |
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138.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
有沒有去處理我必須要講有當本席每一次質詢完之後過那一兩個禮拜真的搜尋不到或者是說Google至少第一頁第二頁第三頁沒有跳出來可是一下子之後他們又死灰復燃又回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
141.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
161.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
難道沒有辦法根治嗎 我不相信以現在的技術來講 我絕對不相信沒有辦法根治如果說今天我們不能允許毒品可以這樣子販賣我們不能允許槍枝可以這樣販賣那憑什麼一樣是不合法的電子煙它可以這樣販賣只是因為它比較輕微嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
194.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
還是只是因為它價錢比較低廉不是啊因為這一件事情追根究柢最近毒價那麼多很多人就講是說電子菸它可能是一個載具它可能用這個載具之後再摻雜其他的毒品然後變成是吸食器然後它就可以很方便的吸食然後之後造成毒價一步一步來嘛這完全不衝突我今天講說這個毒蟲它真的敢駕車上路然後撞死人了判處死刑我們支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
196.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
203.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個毒蟲趕西時然後上車上路開車這就不定時炸彈但是另外一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
230.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
源頭管理加強取締並且讓青少年朋友不要那麼容易取得電子菸這也是衛福部的責任啊這完全不衝突不是說我做了A之後就不用做B或做了B之後就不用做A不是是獨駕零容忍到目前為止多少人從兩三年前我們新北市的那個永景劉中興永景他查緝一個毒蟲到最後被這個毒蟲駕車撞死 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
232.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
251.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
到上個禮拜新北市也有等待紅燈騎摩托車後面被攔腰撞上然後到最後原來這個是獨駕那這一些都是源頭觀念如果說他比較難找到這一些稀釋的方式那他就比較容易好本席講那麼多其實我只是想要問的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
252.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
262.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這都有罰則講了那麼多次那為什麼每一次都是貓捉老鼠講了做一動然後有下架然後之後他們又死灰復燃你不要騙我說沒有技術可管創意私房回來了嗎有沒有就講最直接的嘛我們那時候以前創意私房有這些未成年的性影像我們後來就立一個法結果之後他就他就不見了至少說沒有那麼好搜尋了 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
283.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
304.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
可是電子菸我這件事情我講的是不是它不是一個很困難的技術你只要打電子菸三個字就可以搜尋得到這是一個諷刺啊如果我打槍枝可以搜尋到槍枝官方網站我打毒品可以搜尋到官方網站那這樣不就是諷刺嗎那為什麼電子菸可以打電子菸三個字搜尋到官方網站市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
321.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
338.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
謝謝委員指教那我想在網路平台的部分那包括購物網站跟社群網站那這些我們也會再去做持續的加強那從12年到目前來說你如果說只是想要背書的話不用本席現在講的是Google直接搜尋他也不用社群了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
339.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
360.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他囂張到他不用社群他直接告訴你說你只要你想買我Google打電子驗官方網站賣你而且還可以你訂購之後直接寄送到便利商店便利商店直接取貨這個本席都已經質詢過好多次了我相信你們不是沒有印象但為什麼每一次都是這樣那公權力在你們手上 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
362.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
390.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
衛福部、速發部、內政部、教育部相關部會你們都有責任那我之前也講過拜託你們去找相關部會來開會速發部就用科技的方式遮屏嘛我至少讓一般民眾他沒有辦法買到如果說連一般民眾比較輕易的可以解決不要買到的話那你至少那個散播的網站就會少很多但他現在是公然是可以在網站買這才是現在最大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
392.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
420.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
可以理解嗎是那我們現在也有一個跨部會的平台那也已經有做這個一萬多件的採訪那我們會再持續強化做這樣一萬多件是從什麼時候算到什麼時候從一二年三月到那今年到現在咧對目前就是每一次都講這一萬多件算很多然後就原來是三四年下來那我就問現在獨家是今年特別飆升嚴重我們看到今年一到四月的那個獨家的比例明顯提升甚至 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
421.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
431.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
擴大臨檢有一天晚上就100件獨家那我想請教今年到現在我們開發了電子菸有多少件我們再提供詳細數字市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
437.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
457.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
本席今天站在這邊以一個父親的身份以一個立法委員的身份以一個中央民意代表的身份這件事情不是藍綠不是黨派不是任何政治這件事情是國民健康大是大非的問題沒錯沒錯這個確實齁這個我想這個問題毒害啦毒害不要每一次聽到都是這種官方文章你有沒有辦法做 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
460.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
483.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
來次長我點出來我等一下這個網頁我都可以直接送給你們拜託你們去看一下該開罰開罰該遮屏要遮屏來再來因為今天很感謝昭偉有提這個失智證的一個專法的一個討論喔劉建國委員剛剛用那麼多時間我覺得他只是沒有講出一點啦民進黨政府要做那你們的版本在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
485.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
506.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我剛剛特別看了一下今天衛福部的書面報告最後一段推動專屬的失智症基本法兼顧失智症融入社區生活與友善共榮的目標等等等等等等納入既有法令跟國家計畫架構中又保障失智症跟家庭照顧者的權利同時避免標籤化講得很好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
507.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
532.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
但你也知道問題在哪問題就是現在跨部會的整合沒有一個可以收納的空間那你一直跟我們強調是說有綱領有什麼可是如果說有綱領沒法則那各部會還是各司其職他還是沒有把這當成第一優先順位為什麼很多的議題跨部會議題要設置一個基本法就是把大家都納進來用法明定下去讓大家知道權責相符 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
534.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
562.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以今天我們有看到國民黨團有版本民眾黨團有版本林業勤委員有版本但是我想請教行政院會不會出版本包委我們今天來就是聽那個大院這邊的一個想法所以什麼時候行政院會給版本包委我們會帶回去我們趕快來做要不要給版本我覺得昭偉很用心昭偉他現在已經排了巡打了那之後我們要進入主條的時候能不能看到行政院的版本還是行政院沒有版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
564.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
590.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我覺得這就是重點了失智症的議題重不重要重要啊但是失智症不是長照失智症跟高齡也不相等長照政策是長照政策他是需要照顧的政策是長期照顧有可能年輕他就因為受傷因為等等意外所以他就需要長照所以他不一定年紀大高齡他年紀可能80年90幾歲他不一定失智 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
591.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
608.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以失智是有可能年齡的成長但是他的某機能的退化而造成失智他不一定完全等於長照也不一定完全等於高齡更重要很多人形容啊有沒有看過有一部電影叫日本的電影叫明日的記憶 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
609.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
628.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
他講的就是阿茲海默症他裡面形容一句話我覺得蠻傳神的他說失智症的狀況是0到100慢慢的從100走向0但是什麼時候會走向不一定他很像的是一個裝滿水的水龍頭水桶被打開了水龍頭滴水 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
629.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
644.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以它的功能會慢慢的滴流失我們要做的是把那個水龍頭給關緊但是你有沒有辦法在已經流失的水能夠再補水沒辦法以現在的科學醫學來講你是沒有辦法失智症屬於不可逆的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
645.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
665.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
但你可以做的是就當他在滴水的時候我們用其他的手段幫他把他的水龍孔關起來已經流失的水沒辦法再補回來但我們至少延緩他流失的速度以及讓他裡面的水能夠保持一定的水準所以讓他從正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
666.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
688.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
緩慢走向輕度輕度緩慢走向中度等等日本2023年開始討論所謂的認知正基本法其實就我們的失智正基本法到2024年他們正式入法提案我特別請同仁把日本的法令給相關提出來我沒有看條文但我把立法精神給整理出來這樣子的部分他其實強調什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
690.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
704.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
共生社會社會要學習跟失智症者一起生活減少汙名化以及失智症本人還是有意願跟可以決定的就他有失智症但是他的嚴重程度可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
705.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
733.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
沒有說完全他就是沒有辦法參與社會的一個進行也因此他本人的意願以及參與政策還是可以來去做參考還有他的生活不是完全沒有辦法治理但他要怎麼樣被支持以及提早發現提早治療提早陪伴最後家庭的照顧失智症患者他的家庭的一個協助而不是只是單一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
734.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
759.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這一些都是日本基本法的立法精神但本席現在整理出來我只想問的是那如果說我們現在國民黨團民眾黨團以及綠營委員都有提出版本那我們在進入逐條審查的時候可以沒有行政院的版本嗎我們這個都會來廣徵各方的意見然後我們會來再回去再跟院這邊來做相關的一些討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
761.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
786.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那我好那次長我想請教到目前為止還沒有辦法承諾說一定會有行政院版本或是會有衛福部的版本的理由是什麼就我剛剛說嘛就是理由是如果說大家都認為說這是要跨部會都要很重要然後基本法也確實它是一個方向因為台灣如果說高齡化社會那可能失智症相對比例來講可能只會多不會少 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
787.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
810.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這個是一個趨勢我們也都會老也都有可能高齡社會大概的比例比較容易那如果說是這樣子我們現在要對付少子化我們要因應高齡化那我想請教到底衛福部現在你一直裹足不前不願意承認或是不願意提出你們的版本主要原因是什麼就是我剛剛說我們現在目前現有都已經有一些機制夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
814.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
838.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我覺得這可以來討論啦大家可以來討論啦市長我現在講的其實都是很理性的討論所以第一夠不夠嘛好現有機制夠不夠如果不夠的話就應該加強那加強基本法是一個方向對沒錯所以我說這個相關的這些選項所以如果說第一你沒有辦法回答我說現在的機制如果說你可以拍胸部保證就像剛劉建國委員靈魂考問說現在夠不夠有沒有罰則你們沒有講 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
842.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
867.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那現在如果說假設是不夠了然後你又不願意推是怎樣怕說把責任殘忍在身上不是吧這當然不是啊那就對啦所以我說我們今天會來就來這邊來傾聽各方的意見嘛好那傾聽到現在有沒有哪一個委員跟你們講是說政府不用做基本法有沒有哪一個委員講說你們現在做得很好了不用了夠了很棒有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
869.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
896.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那如果沒有的話能不能真的誠心誠意的建議本期在這委員會裡面我就是認識帶回去真的好好研究因為我認為即便是黨團出來的版本行政部門還是有行政部門通盤的考量可以由行政部門通盤考量出來一個院方的版本我們在一起逐條討論才有意義否則如果說是在逐條討論的途中變成是好像行政部門變上級機導單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
899.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
920.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
委員黨團的版本你每一條你都有意見但是我們真的說要怎麼做的時候你又沒有辦法有個具體的方向那這樣會很奇怪啊拜託次長拜託我們所有辛苦的衛福部同仁啊大家都做事但是真的把事情做好我想這才重要謝謝感謝委員謝謝謝謝洪孟愷委員的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
926.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
929.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
賴慧園不在接著請 |