| IVOD_ID |
169713 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169713 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-28T13:10:19+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-28T13:29:56+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:37 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/89665fc2cee9c367e2348383558427277a79f49b44e074569bd54c157223343e9240d0f21f4d974d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:10:19 - 13:29:56 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查
一、國民黨黨團擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。
二、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。
三、委員林月琴等19人擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。
【僅詢答】【第三案如經復議則不予審查】） |
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好謝謝主席有請次長有請呂次長謝謝主席今天排審這樣的一個專欄報告那我記得在去年的7月31號 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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也在本委會有特別來做這樣安排營運2026施政的防治照護政策綱領2.0升級3.0的專題報告最主要是要檢討經濟台灣施政的預防照護用藥等政策進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
37.817 |
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然後我的特別要求就是第一要研議制定施政專法第二就是要設立行政院承舉的施政專家小組第三強化年輕型的這個施政的政策回應第四推動科技應用與資料整合平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
54.705 |
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第五就是重視照顧者的權利與支持的系統那當時被選的時候是林志那個時候的時任健保署的署長是我們現在的部長那一個月後衛福部有回文有針對第一點自定私自專華衛福部是這麼說的次長您看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
77.023 |
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102.843 |
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施治政策劃是提供本部業以有以下相關的法規包含長照服務法、經費法、申請災害水平保障法及國家級的政策綱領然後在設立施治政的防治造物專法將塗增法規之間適用的漢格不利於行政效能也不建議設立施治專法這是在同年7月31號的一個回應 |
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奇怪今天行政院的報告也寫長照10年計劃的3.0已將私自政的這個防治照護整為長照體系政策之一環並將私自政防治照護政策綱領3.0納入長照3.0的計劃專章第5章由縣城級督導集統而支援推動後面就不再贅述市長你怎麼看這個是你的意見 |
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135.08 |
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還是整個部的意見還是你提供的意見請慎重回答 小心回答包委那個我想這個我們都會來廣聽各方意見當然啦當然啦 當然會廣聽各方意見啦他最終提出來給衛福部來做這個答詢給行政院來做這樣的一個答覆是衛福部整體的意見還是 |
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160.936 |
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還是有你的特別的我們這個都是有多方的一個討論我先跟委員報告啦現在就是說現有已經我們現在目前就是那你能不能回答我不得主導是你嗎是我主責對好沒關係來聽你繼續說下去 |
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183.72 |
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那我們現在目前已經有現有的一些相關機制包括就是說在我們在行政院層級有長照推動委員會那是由每三個月由副院長他簽字主持那在這裡面其實也有這一個我們的第二個就是剛剛這裡面所說的我們的這一個已經納入這一個整個 |
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計畫的一個專章比如第五章我們有一個所謂專門的一個chapter就是專門處理這個問題那現在目前也在這個行政院長照推動委員會裡面也整合12個的一個部會來做這個相關的處理 |
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222.726 |
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239.345 |
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那我要確定的一件事情就是說這個整個給行政院的這樣的一個回應然後衛福部的一個統籌如果是呂氏你剛才已經承認是你嘛對不對你就是要做這個承擔嘛沒有錯嘛那你還是覺得沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
240.68 |
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如果你覺得沒有問題,我當然會繼續問下去如果你覺得有問題,我當然還是會問下去我會用不同的角度跟詢問的方式來請教你 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
256.666 |
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現在目前就是說現有我們的這個機制我們都會來推動但是院長那邊我們也有一個建議就是說是不是可以像吸肝防治有在行政院那邊成立一個辦公室就是有一個比較專責的一個辦公室來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
276.378 |
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貴乎不提供給行政院就是依照你們剛剛所講的嘛不管是長照嘛不管是這個施政綱領嘛大家就不需要立一個專法然後就可以來應付嘛那院長這邊是特別講提供建立是不是在成立一個行政院院級的一個辦公室嘛對不對 |
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296.923 |
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好,所以你們,那我就先救救衛務部嘛,就治療你所以你們覺得只要依現行的長照的政策在推動,包含施政的綱領,就能應付了就可以應付了,對你們意思就這樣嘛因為你回答我兩次,大家都focus在這個這個範疇裡面,沒有錯嘛我應該沒有聽錯嘛,OK,好所以今天就是你要跟社會大眾,跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
323.898 |
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332.765 |
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所有的委員特別提到就是只要這兩項就可以足以應付失智症的這樣的一個防治跟照護所以我要提醒你再強調一次長照政策也不等於高齡政策對不對同樣失智症不等於需要長照政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
348.8 |
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374.82 |
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你又回答我沒錯 你前面答覆的不是很衝突嗎你再想一下啦包委 這個其實是不衝突啦我們現在目前在這裡面有關於我剛剛已經說了我們現在目前長照的一個推動裡面我們有一個委員會嘛那這裡面其實會有幾個相關的我們除了目前3.0之外除了3.0之外 另外也有一些像針對像原民啊 還有像針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
377.602 |
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396.88 |
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這個要有一點時間討論,我講快一點,不然會拖很長時間如果你一直把長照政策就是等同涵蓋所有高齡的議題當然你也不能夠認同,對不對?那相對的你要涵蓋整個失智症那我想這整個台灣的不論高齡不論失智症的政策就是出了很大的衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
398.081 |
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419.992 |
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更會延伸出很多的問題甚至還會我們會遇到可能難以去回顧注意到的相關的事情去做更積極的應變反而會使施政的病患這個病情加劇也不一定施政它有分輕中重的對不對也有這個病情的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
420.672 |
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447.998 |
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也不是說今天確診施政他生活就完全無法治理嘛對沒錯他就需要常常介入二次小額要看護的病人的一個對象沒錯沒錯這個都很清楚嘛所以你看到連勞動部他都有施政的就業服務計畫勞動部在2020推動這個施政就業推動計畫保障施政者的工作權截至去年的6月底共協助失業失智者就業服務82人其中協助40人成功的每一合就業 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
448.698 |
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467.279 |
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民意率不到50%啦算是低啦但是總是有在做嘛那這個需要長照嗎你的施政政策綱領有還在這塊嗎包委員這個就是我們的政策綱領裡面我們就是一個就是一個比較的comprehensive就是說各個部會的一個統合跟協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
468.723 |
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486.032 |
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因為這裡面確實會牽涉到其他的那個啊好 你們的政策綱領 那我們等一下再來講你們的政策綱領 雖然你可以答覆我你在這個政策綱領還是長照推動小組裡面屬於這個公部門各部會各單位的你們能不能如一的跟委員會做一個報告你現在是說我們這個就長照推動小組嘛 包含哪些公部門嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
493.955 |
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522.317 |
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這裡面就是我剛剛說總共我們有橫跨12個部會啊12個部會嘛 衛福部 財政部 教育部 勞動部 經濟部國化會 退伍會 園林會 課委會對不對沒錯沒錯還有有沒有漏掉的剛剛有交通部嘛交通部還有法務部法務部再來金管會金管會還有國科會等等國科會夠了吧這樣夠了12個對各位聽市長有沒有漏掉底下幕僚注意一下有沒有漏掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
525.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
553.775 |
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沒有 應該沒有啦還有園民會 園民會園民會嘛 對對對那就夠囉 市長 對嘛沒有漏掉了嘛沒有漏掉了嘛跟委員補充報告您剛剛問的是長推小組的成員 對政府部門 對那確實就會有國發會這些相關的部會我們不要贅述 剛剛念的這幾個部會我知道 對嘛 夠嘛另外我們政策綱領這邊長期跨部會12個部會的裡面跟這個行政院長推小組的成員這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.015 |
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573.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
沒有完全一致可是我們本來常推推動小組裡面要點裡面就是可以試議題來加邀相關的專家學者甚至是部會一起來參與試議題的時候才增加相關的部會來一起討論嘛沒有錯嘛但是在常規底下就是這12個部會沒有錯嘛對不對我要建議那個主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
578.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
596.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
內政部、刑事、警察局、預防科他今天應該可以,現在可以離席了他不在這12個部會裡面啊今天是我們衛環委會在設議題又不是你們那個小組在設議題也不是你們政策綱領在設議題啊對不對今天是主席設的議題,不是你們設的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
607.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
612.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你把除了這12個部會的相關機關的成員邀請來做什麼你有跟主席打過招呼嗎還是你們覺得今天主席討論這個議題絕對不能沒有內政部警政署相關的單位來列席或者攔理討論 極致會關於漏案 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
630.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
637.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那如果是這樣,你們行政院,你們衛福部在這12個部會裡面為什麼沒有列政部,為什麼沒有警政署?不衝突嗎?不矛盾嗎?不夠離譜嗎?還是我們立法院衛福委員會是你們行政院首屬底下的一個委員會? |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
659.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
685.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
貿委員不會啦我們不是我們一定是尊重尊重大院我把問題挑明來跟你講嘛對不對施政就是有親中眾對沒錯然後勞動部都還把有機會失業的施政的對象要媒合到工作市場上去你把這些人放在整個長照的長推小組裡面這個不是很大的衝突跟矛盾嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
686.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
697.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個一個政策綱領就可以來做一個解決那人類免疫缺乏病毒傳染防治及感染者權益保障條例為什麼要定?癌症防治法為什麼要定? |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
710.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
722.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
監察院2018年公布施責人權調查報告台灣地方法院有關於施政民事案件自2006的時候是115件10年到2016已經來到1990件件數高達16.3倍刑事案件則94件成長到368件增量2.9倍長照推動小組能處理嗎政策高齡 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
739.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
743.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
有在韓大這個範圍裡面,如何去抑制這樣的事情發生嗎?有嗎?你們講的這兩項啊,有嗎?請答覆我啊。不管失之甘寧、長頹小組,有嗎?我剛剛講了嘛,涉及到兩個單位,這個是華務部嘛。也包含司法院啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
772.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
798.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你怎麼回答我?你怎麼不出聲?然後去年北市有一個個案我講個案一名患有失真的婦人在110年就陸續遭起這個詐騙繳交稅金、手續費等等將他名下贈付現金提領後進行免交進入誘騙他向高利貸借款處分或出售名下不動產然後再將這個現金交付這是另外一個案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
802.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
820.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
2019報道者報道者的相關的報導真的是非常深入他更是出了一篇最難舉證的受害人圍繞失智者的犯罪風暴專題報告報告中有一段話請市長看一下我實在不用再贅述了這個內容應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
824.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
839.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
應該市長都清楚嘛所以台灣的私事政協會才指出嘛私事者並會完全喪失這個判斷能力只是在面對這個複雜需要多支持需要更多支持然後許多私事者能具備這個基本的決策能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
839.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
863.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那如果像購買手機啊 處理銀行相關的業務它因為可能會涉及到操作 涉及到多重的這樣的一個步驟還有複雜的資訊它就很容易成為這個詐騙極短的手機的對象如果缺乏適當的陪伴與資訊管道這個受騙的風險明顯就會較高嘛 好長推小組 如果處理這一塊 現在有沒有處理這一塊政策綱領裡面有沒有含在這一塊 有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
865.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
886.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
有嗎?我們在那個政策綱領裡面有處理這個議題,有有,就是警政署他們那邊在我們政策綱領裡面現在警政署又有功能了嘛在政策綱領裡面警政署有功能了在堂堆小組沒有警政署的功能政策綱領裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
889.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
905.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
如何去把這個警政署的功能可以列在這個綱領的第幾項第幾條裡面有沒有具體的文字書面的資料可以給我們那如何做應應有嗎?確定有嗎?有市長現在可以馬上討論我嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
913.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
932.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
檢診署很重要的檢診署很重要 包括司法院 包括法務部都很重要你們用政策綱領就可以來涵蓋這一切以後我們相關的這個癌症的防治還有剛剛我講的那個條例基本上都是可以用政策綱領就可以來處理就不用讓立法院這麼忙碌啊 不用讓委員這麼樣的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
937.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
959.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個精心剖測的然後把相關的這樣的一個意見收集之後然後透過這個協會的這樣的一個提醒然後把相關的法案去擬定出來那變成一草案送到送到委員會來做審查如果這麼講所有的政策綱領可以涵蓋這一切那相關立法基本上都可以省略很多時間我們可以好好的審這個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
961.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
974.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們今天很單純的就是看到這個各個版本的相關的條文那事實上有很多條文這些相關的部會的全責其實是從政策綱領這邊目前的架構這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
978.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
987.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
等於寫過去的那當然他要求的層級要拉到行政院那確實我們已經在去年年底把政策單領3.0已經拉到長照3.0計畫其實去年行政院還搬了那 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
992.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
996.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
後面大家關注的是行動方案行動方案就會涉及到剛剛講的這跨12個部會這些相關的工作項目跟KPI那跟10年的要達成的目標值那這個部分我們現在正在彙整 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1008.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1010.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
預計6月底我們會把這樣的一個行動方案3.0給做公布那剛剛表達的是說因為基本法的這些法條的很多的條文內容跟政策綱領裡面現在設定的這些相關的工作事項跟政策方向其實是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1027.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1054.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那所以才會說那如果今天提高成績現在也在行政院由副院長這邊會召集三個月召集會議裡面那會定期針對失智的這個綱領的落實情形到這個行政院的會上面來做一些報告那其實就會跨部會把這些權責的部會一起要求到行政院的行政院這個小組事實上也會有一些相關的專家跟這個使用者代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1055.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1080.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那一起來參與是提的是這樣重點是在落實我們是覺得比較希望能夠盡快大家可以花很多力氣在落實那一旦一個法規過了之後剛剛提的回給委員的版本也是有非常多的失事證關注失事證的議題在散在我們國家有非常多的法規那有時候法規的一個適用性上也會擔心有一些漢格的問題以上做這樣的一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1082.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1106.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
市長講得很清楚,那基本上你就把那個政策綱領跟現在提出來相關委員的這個要訂定這個專法的這個對照,陳柏霖講得這麼樣的句心靡靡嘛,那把它對照出來。有一個重點,最後一個重點,因為這個主席剛剛講很久是市長不是我,所以我要特別再提醒一次, |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1106.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1131.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
你講的政策綱領,它有相對應的罰則,相對應的處分,有嗎?沒有?好,那你如果覺得這樣,你的這一個事情是可以處理到周全,然後可以得到你們的預期效果,那你就持續這個樣子,我沒有意見啦齁,但是那個對照表我們就弄出來,我們就找實際間好好討論齁,所以我提醒市長,那個獨家跟電子菸, |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1132.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1160.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
還是慎行到不行這個有相關的罰則但是不高所以很多的這個狀況就持續的樣態相關的樣態就持續的一直在增加N倍以上的這樣跳動N次以上的這樣跳動增加然後造成很多難以這個恢復的這樣的一個傷害我想這個主管機關還是在我們衛福部請次長這當然不是你主責啦我要請次長就是要特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1161.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1171.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
回去之後把這個事情看怎麼樣做一個相關的一些應應然後再提供給各委員會做各委員會來做參考謝謝市長 謝謝主席 謝謝謝謝劉建國委員的諮詢接下來請洪孟凱委員諮詢 |