| IVOD_ID |
169564 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169564 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-19-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-21T10:54:33+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-21T11:10:07+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:34 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14c66ee36e76b85c13758b421d2f1822ca1860e2f1c42d1af929c1ba330123fb296ad41e3562adc05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪毓祥 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:54:33 - 11:10:07 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣糖業股份有限公司董事長、農業部部長、行政院災害防救辦公室首長、行政院公共工程委員會首長、內政部首長率國土管理署首長、交通部首長、原住民族委員會首長、財政部國有財產署首長、國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會首長及衛生福利部首長就「全台各縣市汛期防洪防災工程準備情形及花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後復原重建工作」執行進度及預算運用進行報告，並備質詢。
【5月20日及5月21日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.029 |
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2.49 |
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謝謝我們現在請洪立祥召委請做詢談好謝謝主席我們有請這個經濟部農業部跟公共工程委員會好我們請三位 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
20.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
46.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 你好我先就剛剛邱營委員的這個問題我反過來問好了我們現在整個總預算115年的話既有的延續型預算是90%新型預算裡頭大概10%然後我們通過700多億的可以讓你先行動資主計出委說可以動資所以我現在想要問的有關於我們這些殉災防洪防水整治 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
69.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
哪一些請經濟部跟農業部告訴我們明天中午交給我到底哪一些計畫是因為115年的預算因為沒有審查哪裡不能用的好不好我第一個很簡單跟委員報告就是說委員報告就交給我我看有沒有好不好好我再來看這個預算再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
73.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
有關於審查這個預算經濟委員會我請問你來農業部今天公布了農業部預算審查沒預算質詢完了但是還沒有處理對嘛還沒處理嘛來經濟部我負責的是也是一樣所以我們都是同樣進度是吧同樣進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
100.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
125.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我一定是配合這個另外一位召委讓我們經紀人會的預算審查是同步順利進行的這點請相信我雖然是擔心召委但是我沒有任何的偏頗一定都是讓他如期如質推動以上先做這樣的聲明再來我們來看花蓮馬太安西這個八個月之後下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
127.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
150.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我考察的時間是1155月4號這也跟三位長官為什麼我請公共工程委員會員站在這裡因為你是我們整個馬太安溪的一個督導對不對應該是整個匯報的單位那我的意思就是說我也身為是我高雄的我也不是什麼花蓮的泰國人我就是台灣人我沒有綠卡 香港人都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
169.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我高雄鄉中途我去到新竹新竹交代的話我也是大概11年半在整個新竹地區之後我都是在北部新竹這樣工作所以我很簡單的一件事情因為我們在高雄的氣暴受災的時候我看了很多很痛很痛 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
169.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
198.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以我對災民的這個東西不管是我們的地震、風災、水災這些的話我都覺得要苦民所苦一直不能夠忘記他們所以這個是我的初衷我想要看的是說我這裡頭我相信這個是災後的狀況真的是非常的慘不忍睹我今天比較從上次考察之後大概我是覺得根據災民、居民還有商店 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
199.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
225.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
的這些新生我大概歸納了四點加上我自己親身這樣去考察我想問一下農業部跟經濟部的話你們到今年的五月有去過花蓮光復鄉幾次嗎我想我們農業部基本上每一個月都會我今年大概去了一次然後去年去了四次我說我只講今年一次來經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
229.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
257.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你說今年嗎?對 今年到現在 今年1月到5月因為今年這個部分我們水利署同仁其實都那部次長有沒有去?我是沒有 因為這次是我們另外一位那次是絕對有去的絕對有去 回去也是交個報告給我看什麼時候去 做了什麼當然可是陪公共工程委員會去的那一次啦4月30號那一次但是我為什麼要這樣講 就是各位部次長有空 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
258.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
281.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
真的就到花蓮光復鄉再實際去我那一次的考察我排了五個點他們經委會說號稱史上最硬馬不停蹄六點半一直到晚上的我回到台北大概是九點所以我希望是每一個部次長你們在做這個負責不管交通部啊不管我雖然沒有點名各位上台但是大家苦民所苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
282.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
289.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
真的要苦民所苦再來這四個問題其中第一個我們先看治標不治本我們直接放影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
295.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
317.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這一塊呢應該是超過接近三米讓土不要流進來就是靠沙包啦等等還有一個就是一直不斷的去清淤多少沙包才可以阻擋這根本沒有可能土是還在這邊啊這邊土是沒有清的我們一直把堤防架高堤防架高之後我們會安全嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
318.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你們有沒有考慮到我們的木箱還有五條溪這個溪都很高大你把地號弄得那麼高你們有想到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
357.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好我第一個問題是這樣子剛剛這個是應該是內政部對不對但其他都有在清都是一樣就是我們清出來的河道疏菌然後這些挖出來這個問題就是他清出來就是放旁邊然後那個土石剛剛看到是佛祖街那一段然後河體也不斷加高我現在的第一個很重要的問題是說挖出來的這些的清汙疏菌土方現在是放在哪裡誰可以回答我 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
360.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
383.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
公共工程委員會先回答來跟委員說明那其實委員提到的是好幾塊那整個如果是馬灘溪跟花蓮溪的部分現在是挖起來那有一部分用在限地的工程把既有的堤防這個把它加厚加高那其他的部分就是堆在那個光復那個鳳林就是馬灘溪北側那邊大多數現在在那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
386.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
406.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那佛祖街那一塊是另外一個故事因為佛祖街那個大概整個區域是我們定義的這個所謂的農業重災區為什麼叫重災區因為它整個大概將近170公頃169公頃多那它的淤土的高度大概都是超過50公分甚至有些到6米等於是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
408.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以經過評估之後這一塊就是說如果你要把它回復到災前的那個高層的高度的話其實是比較不切實際因為第一個時間太久 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
420.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
436.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
沒關係 因為問題就是說現在的話整個挖出來的東西如果你這塊地也不要了可是旁邊還是請這個花蓮縣政府在那邊做地下水道的這個清理然後又堆砂堡那你不是一直這樣在擄圖嗎我跟委員報告其實這因為分階段就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
438.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
458.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
長遠是先架構那這個架構的過程現在農業部正在積極辦理當中預計今年年底會開始進行收購但是我們也不會因為說他現在我們要架構再做整體規劃再去施工再重新抓高層跟排水就是你說的你交一個報告出來給我就是你們這個挖出來的過度實施這個排水放到哪裡挖出來的量我記得是維園市指哪個地方挖出來的都一樣啊你公公是怎麼回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
467.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
475.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們有很多區域,不知道委員指的是哪一區啊好,這個我們來提一個報告給你公共工程委員會為什麼會不知道呢,對不對那我就說啦,當時如果不去你一直在那邊repeat,一直repeat就會變成是這樣子啊就是今年的5月15日下雨天又淹了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
498.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
515.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我想要告訴各位是說這個你說短期那一塊不管怎麼樣反正就是會淹因為它就是無盡的輪迴再來下一個農地的復育這邊我當然是肯定農業部農事所那邊但是我覺得復育的太慢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
516.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
543.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
真的有點慢我跟委員報告我們在災後的第一天我們就全員動員去處理沒有所謂慢的問題但是農業本身的復育它必須要有階段的部分要有階段的部分現在的話就是說在這一段時間裡頭他們的生計該怎麼辦比如說你說是休耕的補助或什麼但是我是說要確定達到它維持它之前的一些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
544.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
573.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
維持經濟生活的水準啊對 所以我們非常重要的就是他原來在種的話我們可以同意他領休耕補助等於說他不用種 同時他還是可以領到相當於休耕的這個經費去我肯定這一個做法就是說不管怎麼做 因為農民知道就是說我現在很想耕作 但沒辦法耕作因為土地負真的需要時間 明白但是就是農業部要去照顧他們維持他們的基本的所需好 那再 這個不用 再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
574.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
584.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他要做原地的就是說接下來就是農民就是這一塊這一塊當地很多人在抱怨我們稍微放一下影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
588.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
615.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
他要做原地的先買地不買地的就造林等到這一區到底將來怎麼運用那可能是造林跟植生這個政策好像在我那個重大行動女生那再補一刀六年六十萬嘛一年就是十萬那是一公頃十萬我們幹嘛那塊地就是我們賴以為生的工具嘛該徵收的不徵收不該徵收就用徵收架構是槍X百姓啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
615.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
640.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好 這很多 他只是其中一個代表我那邊去就是不斷的接觸城景現在我可以明白就是說這個農地呢積土超過50公分以上 沒辦法的那個就是植林嘛 對不對然後如果他 就是說他願意土地給你徵收他不種了 那就是用土地徵收市價沒有的話 他想要土地 他就是植林補助等等是 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
641.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
655.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
小於30公分我們就是走剛剛農地復育就是休耕的那一塊那現在的話就是在這個地方也就是說他們有一些是希望能夠以地一地就是說 再往下這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
656.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
684.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那現在要異地耕作因為說他還是想要耕種去維持他們農作物的一個收入所以現在在這裡頭我們的受災農地官方報告這是你們的報告也都查起來都是一樣73.9% 重災區就是所謂大於50公分以上是163.4%一般區的話是383.1公頃好 那我們不管國土署內政部台堂 對不對這些還有退府會都把一些土地放出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
685.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
710.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
放出來之後我們來看釋出的土地是145.1公頃結果釋出當中我去看你們的報告整個下來不適合耕作的是134.61可耕作的土地只剩10.49公頃好 有在辦煤盒有請當地的農會人去煤盒煤盒起來之後只有兩個人因為可以耕種的面積實在太少只有兩個人 8.2公頃 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
712.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
733.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以這個怎麼辦我跟委員報告就是說基本上農民當然希望是說到異地去耕種的時候相對的第一個距離是一個問題是所以我們會去找台塘地有關或國產署有關的地能夠比較讓他們交通便利的部分結果我們找到大概8.4公頃左右然後結果媒合的時候他們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
734.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
762.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
開始很高興可是後來他們又考慮到就是說這個時間的路程的部分太遠了他們就沒有去所以我們會持續的去做這樣的一個媒合然後也希望說加速他原來如果說是比較一般就是雙軌並行一般他自己的農地的富裕我們如果可以趕快去幫助他對我們也開始一直在做如果他的土層菸的土層比較淺的時候我們要加快他的一個富裕的角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
763.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
769.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
再來的話呢這個可能跟剛剛這個問題是一樣我們放一下影片不好意思主席讓我再播放 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
795.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
814.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
來補助這一個是因為跨部會很多嘛所以工程委員會那時我的要求是你要統籌所有的進度啊那補助當時我們在給你300億的特別條預算的時候是從優從素嘛所以我覺得剛剛我為什麼會問你像怪手就是當地民眾反映的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
815.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
838.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
對不對所以這個東西就趕快給人家答案了現在已經幾月了可以嗎我們盡快來處理盡快就是要給我期限了不要到時候不處理我再跟各位預告我為什麼今天會排重大訊息又要來了對不對你我都很擔心我7月會再去看歡迎委員常常來看對我當然是常常去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
839.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
858.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
你們的那個工作站的話現在還有在駐守我也都很清楚嘛就在這個火車站旁邊的是每天都有同仁生那裡的我知道就派工嘛那我最後的希望是這樣子就是在這裡頭我等一...不當...對不起不要動不耽誤時間就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
861.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
885.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
經濟部這邊的話我相信大概就是我們有一些的這些的馬太安溪的特別條例的建設所以包含你們這些輕屋堆置外運等等各個工程的規劃預算執行進度在各一個詳細的列表那農業部我剛看完你的報告當然有一些再去找耕地副作有些是要到6月7月嘛對不對尤其在土地徵收那我覺得部長也剛剛答應我了就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
886.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
908.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
儘量去照顧農民的生計讓他維持在沒有這個當時這個水災來之前的這個生計的一個水平不管你是休耕補助不管是他的農機區不管是他東西最後我也感謝台塘但是台塘喔台塘的園區的商店的店家我看你是寫得不錯啦那個報告這樣寫但是呢人家不缺那個錢啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
909.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
925.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那我當然會免賄格格格免租金因為那個遊客數實在太少我們去看的時候就真的是也是很少啦所以我想這個再請吳董事長再拜託一下這樣子好不好好 以上謝謝好 謝謝現在休息八分鐘 |