| IVOD_ID |
169561 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169561 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-19-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-21T13:03:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-21T13:41:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:38:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14c66ee36e76b85cdbf3b0aa620b30f0ca1860e2f1c42d1af929c1ba330123fb5d8ce9dcc01387985ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
傅崐萁 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:03:34 - 13:41:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣糖業股份有限公司董事長、農業部部長、行政院災害防救辦公室首長、行政院公共工程委員會首長、內政部首長率國土管理署首長、交通部首長、原住民族委員會首長、財政部國有財產署首長、國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會首長及衛生福利部首長就「全台各縣市汛期防洪防災工程準備情形及花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後復原重建工作」執行進度及預算運用進行報告，並備質詢。
【5月20日及5月21日二天一次會】） |
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副坤崎總裁質詢 |
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15.741 |
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首先謝謝洪義祥召委今天來排定這個馬太安溪重建相關的事務進度了解讓國人能夠更加的清楚謝謝我們首先是不是先請內政部跟農業部請內政部跟農業部部長還有內政部次長委員好委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
60.993 |
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請問一下這個內政部花蓮縣的面積是全國土地面積最大4600平方公里在台灣的八分之一現在目前我們打火兄弟這個消防目前的編制 |
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62.894 |
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91.33 |
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只有420人要負責整個4600平方公里這麼大的一個面積包括打火包括救災包括山難包括水災有任何需要救難的地方都可以看到我們打火弟兄的身影但是目前編制的員額420人地方政府也準備好了相關的預算 |
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92.31 |
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101.405 |
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但是目前只有實際只有368人這52人是不是能夠在今年把它補足 |
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103.713 |
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130.672 |
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好 謝謝昭緯的的推詢我想那個目前全國的消防員額的部分大部分都有些都沒有補足那我們在每年的那個考試分發的部分我們都會優先來做調整那也會針對幾個縣市政府的員額的需求我們這邊都會請消防署這邊來做調整你這是概括的說法 本席在請教你全國面積最大的地方4600平方公里只有420人的編制 |
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134.029 |
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146.473 |
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這樣子內政部都不能補足應該要盡快補足啊你不是在用這種官宣的方式我們怎麼不知道你們就是各縣市區分配本席在問420人這個問題問很多次了什麼時候可以補足委員是不是容我再請消防署來做一下說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
163.088 |
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184.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那消防署在那個人員的禁用的部分這部分他因為他有一定的那個培訓就是警專警大這部分的培訓他有一定的一個實現那另外在短期內需要去補充這個人力當然就是要靠我們現在的一個義消以及志工那今天的主題是針對這個水災或台紅災害的這個問題那這個部分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
211.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
志工在上一次去年的那個馬太安溪的這個堰塞湖的災歷中其實他是解決人力問題的問題所以我們現在就是說第一個在這方法的部分修法在地方每一個鄉鎮市有協作中心那用運用的人力來源志工的部分就是加以培訓也就是防災室那另外還有加一些等於說替代役等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
240.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
地方公所以及村裡這個部分會有充分的人力去執行這樣子的一個水災的工作那從根本的來解決那這部分在修法那另外每一個鄉鎮每一個村裡目前都有編列預算在做補助那以上檢要的報告所以還是沒有回答本席的問題嘛地方打火弟兄有義消這個鳳凰志工復宣還有巡守 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
241.79 |
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249.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
議警 民防 通通都有但這不是正式的編制原則啊24小時要上班的啊你半夜要找誰啊你們這麼大一個部 這麼大一個署這問題是今天發生的嗎 已經多久了不能永遠用這種官司說法你們要講到民國110年 120年 130年還是用這種說法4600平方公里 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
272.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
282.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
只有420人內政部第一大部你們到現在這個事情都辦不好獎勵對官宣在講什麼本席聽不懂喔你們針對本席的問題書面立刻回覆本席了解了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
298.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
304.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
解決問題不是丟一張S的紙給我那怎麼解決 要告訴本席請回那很簡單的問題嘛很簡單的問題嘛那氣溫不要搞這樣嘛還在這邊跟我講官司說法本席看這邊看了三十幾年還需要這樣跟我回答嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
329.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
355.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們今天盡量針對問題回答問題來 陳部長幾個問題我們就快問快答了 好不好現在淹沒土地的徵收有架構 有一地一地架構的部分都會盡量以實際的價格不要讓民間覺得受了災難之後還要再受土地徵收的損失 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
357.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
383.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個部分可以明確說到嗎?我想我們也是朝這個方向,就是說對,你是朝這個方向,所以部長,請你承諾不要在這方面的民怨盡快完成,可不可以?對,我們會照這個進度,像7月查過完了以後,我們大概年底之前會完成這整個的一個徵收的部分,如果他願意的話好,不要有民怨,可以嗎?我們一定持續的在溝通,希望大家能夠滿意媒合的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
384.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
412.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
什麼時候可以媒合完成媒合的部分現在我們跟台南的地跟國產組織比現在的媒合的部分一個很大的問題就是我們現在所掌握的地跟馬太安的區域有交通上的一個問題啦所以雖然說找到地以後他不一定會過去但是我們看看還有沒有其他的誘因是可以讓他們願意到其他的地方去其他的誘因就是農業部可以給他相關的輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
414.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
441.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
整個配套的措施畢竟他原有的土地光復那個地方的土地原本就不是肥沃所以農民 農友已經花了很多的時間做土壤的改良成功耕作現在換一塊新的土地要重新再來做整個土壤的整個要花很多時間你講的這個我們絕對可以協助的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
445.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
473.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那架構的部分年底前完成梅河的部分什麼時候可以完成923之前可以完成嗎不是梅河的部分就是我們會有像您剛才說的這些異地的部分如果需要這些土壤改良我們會來協助他也甚至於不需要出錢我們來協助但是畢竟還是要願意進來啦我剛才說的那個交通的問題可能要做一些一些想辦法解決部長給你這麼多的預算好不好你手握這麼大的工氣這麼大的資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
475.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
498.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如何如何在你的本業啊你的專業裡面去跟農民溝通我想這是很重要的工作盡快來完成那另外啊對於這次擴大整個提房徵收的這個範圍啊包括這些農林漁牧等等啊請務必啊要用市價來徵收本市再強調一次他現有的財產剛剛蓋好 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
506.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
532.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
農林漁牧在那裡本來地方就業就少已經在那裡投資 已經在那裡剛剛起步要生根建置完畢突然收到一紙公文說要 相關的那些土地要被徵收所以我想啊 部長你應該跟共工程委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
534.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
561.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
內政部相關的部會到地方去再做一次很清楚的座談把這些民怨再排除不是快閃我們真正要解決問題也不是去過以後提出了80個100個問題然後回來再一個官宣給他們這樣是不行的我們希望說很務實的來解決現在的民困 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
563.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
568.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
部長可以排個時間跟內政部還有這個工程會 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
569.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
598.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
一起到災區去我想我們一定非常樂意在災區聽取農民的聲音然後第二個部分就是我們現在做相關的茶菇也是用市價去茶菇我如果不用市價的話我就用公告地價馬上就可以解決了所以我們一定是確保農民的權益的前提公告地價這不是喊口號啦對嘛所以我們用市價去茶菇嘛市價茶菇但是市價要真正是符合市價現在不是土地的部分而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
599.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
626.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
還有地上物的部分 這個就是我們委託專業團隊去查過而不是我們自己人去 還有地上物今天增值最大的很多都是地上物再過來我們那個下游的部分 鳳林相關這些西瓜的瓜農鳳林的西瓜叫做國宴瓜國宴瓜是台灣品質最特優的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
627.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
641.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
現在這些被這個土地核酸區不予承輸以後這些瓜農可能轉做的部分請農業部能夠給他們做一個專案的輔導可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
642.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
667.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
輔導是可以的但是因為現在工地的部分因為河川的部分可能不再適合去種這個西瓜那我們後續看看用什麼樣的方式能夠協助說他在其他的地方能夠從事他的本業西瓜業或是改種其他的作物我想這個我們會來專門輔導好接下來就是萬榮鄉就是除了光復以外包括萬榮也有很多的種摘區這個覆蓋土有50公分以上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
674.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
676.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個部長你現在處理的方式為何 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
678.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
703.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們基本上在我們分兩個部分50公分以下我們又分20跟50 20可以馬上立即復耕的部分我們會協助然後50公分需要整地怪手間去整地那50公分以上的我們現在目標大概100將近160公頃左右我們是希望他能夠變成一個造林區不管是協議架構或者是是相關的這些這些造林但是如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
703.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
731.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
他沒讓那麼高 他可能是60公分或50公分我們也願意用更好的方式去輔導他去做一些逐步的土壤改良這些盡快以書面回復本席同時到地方再辦一個座談因為當天這個部長也沒有去這個現場災區這次經濟委員會去大概陳部長比較忙沒有去 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
732.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
756.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
本席現在跟您詢問的都是當天地方災民所提出來的問題要盡快去處理我們一直在協助我們的農民包括我們的團隊包括改良黨的團隊怎麼樣讓他願意種的話我就直接協助他們馬上就8個月了後天就8個月了8個月了盡快讓農民知道何去何從 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
762.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
788.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
再過來縣農會被徵收了20公頃的土地包括先堆置這些的這些佔置土等等我想這個部分縣農會正是平常在支持農民在輔導農民的在地方第一線跟農民常年在合作的常年在支持農民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
789.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
796.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以呢征收的方式還是以地易地這個陳部長給他們多一點的選擇可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
800.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
825.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
不過這個部分我想我們會在這個整個的一個馬太安專案會議裡面去把它提出來那因為它被徵收的當初的一個目的那是不是一個臨時性的還是永久性的被徵收如果是永久性被徵收的話以我們對農業的輔導的話我們一定會想辦法去讓它還有其他的地能夠持續去做農會的一個營運 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
827.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
853.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
部長的意思如果是暫時性的話暫時性相關的補貼的費用也要講清楚對所以我說要在因為如果是永久性的徵收的話地方農會是希望能夠以地一地他們能夠繼續的從事相關的對以農業部對於農業農會的輔導我們一定會主動的去協助他找到相關的地這個陳部長本席還是要再一次的提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
855.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
884.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
在之前的四方會議裡面有一再提到當驗射服務發生一流還是潰壩的時候要儘快釋放海嘯警報貴部完全沒有釋放黃金的逃難40分鐘就此消失台灣多地震未來還有多少驗射服務會發生我們不曉得但是一個完整的機制要盡快建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
886.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
914.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
預警的警報系統要盡快建立部長可以嗎我們現在已經在重新去處理包括驗射壺現在因為只有5000萬噸但是相對的它兩邊的土石有可能成了新的驗射壺所以我們也匡列了不同的情境之下所跟縣政府做避難計畫的一個設計跟演練那這個部分就是會再跟地方政府去做加強的一個溝通包括演練的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
917.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
946.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
演練當然要來進行但是所有相關的預制等等行政院在防中心要做一個完整的配套不是不是撤離697人預制的軍卡跟兵力跟撤退8600人中央沒有增加一部軍卡沒有增加應援兵力同樣的能量叫鄉鎮公所執行單位要怎麼來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
948.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
965.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這以後可以慢慢檢討啦本席是提醒你啦四方會議都有錄音的啦也有會議紀錄但你們沒有做我覺得這個沒問題另外現在調查局在調查法院在調查我覺得可以尊重這都很清楚本席現在就提醒你悲劇不要再上演還有很重要的不是剛剛講的幾千萬噸在旁邊上面還有2.4億萬方 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
978.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
1005.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
4億噸的沙土在上游部長請回請交通部、經濟部委員好這個交通部是次長這個現在整個光護箱的重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
1007.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1024.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個觀光的推展請問一下交通部到底有什麼因應作為你們讓本席知道一下全觀光部的鄉親中區的鄉親都很好奇我們交通部到底做了什麼觀光署到底做了什麼是不是跟全國國人講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1026.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1040.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
觀光的部分我們就是還是去輔導當地那第二個呢可能未來會推動國旅的部分來振興未來可能喔所以從去年9月23號你們睡覺睡到現在未來可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1044.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1069.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
報告委員 這個因為是新興計劃所以預算的部分可能要等115年的預算核定後才能處理這可不可以115年預算不要鬼扯嘛本期好心好意來跟你談不要再用這種清涼式的亂講我跟委員報告那個有幾個 公共署的預算這麼多有幾個公共署的 三百億的預算在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1076.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1087.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
原則上光屬會推動受風還有復旅還有御禮幾個地方的這個重鼓以及相關的這個觀光推展活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1088.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1106.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那這個後續我是不是把資料再給您 因為有好多件事但是本席請教的不是受封御禮婦禮 本席請教的是萬榮鳳林光復災區的觀光的重建 貴部有什麼積極作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1109.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1134.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
本席國語說的不清楚嗎謝謝委員那個萬榮的部分他有縱谷的相關的部落旅行的推展那山谷音樂會大概也會在蒙古木魚辦理所以有相關的活動在推動中部長不是次長是請你們陳部長非專業也不認真的部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1137.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1144.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
政治掛帥的陳部長盡快到災區去看一看災區現在觀光是什麼樣子陳部長如果還是很忙有授權您的話請你盡快過去跟工工程委會一起過去可以嗎是好 謝謝經濟部請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1166.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1191.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
對於光復鄉的產業振興有哪些積極作為 有哪些成效八個月了是 產業振興的部分其實我們對商圈 對市場的部分其實市場 公有零售市場的修復也已經完成了那商圈的部分我們也會辦一些行銷活動那當然也結合什麼時候要辦五月份 好像應該下禮拜就有辦一些行銷的活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1192.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1214.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
喔 這麼巧 本席今天下禮拜要辦了可以公告一下嗎可以可以 可以 沒問題最好每個月辦 好不好要有成效要有成效 好不好經濟部會有這麼龐大的資源你們跟交通部觀光署應該一起合作嘛找國內的旅行者 國旅嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1216.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1244.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
看怎麼樣大家做一個完整的配套有什麼優惠的措施讓更多人走進去嘛 一起來關心嘛是可以嗎 可以可以的現在有310的預算給您使用 好不好好另外經濟部啊在這裡啊 真的要交通部 經濟部 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1247.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1277.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那個工程會工程會啊工程會啊工程會跟經濟部一起好吧謝謝啊今天是副主委來嗎是嗎對副主委中文部副主工程工程會的副主委周勛元副主委是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1281.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1306.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
工程委員 李毅德副主委這個副主委請教一下現在副主委你現在已經是幾乎是行政院的層級你現在是副院長的層級曾經的主委現在是院長的層級因為過去不管是莫拉克風災 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1309.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1330.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
88水災還是921大地震重建委員會都是行政院院長來擔任現在不曉得卓鴻胎院長在忙什麼然後請這個工工程委員會來擔任這個重建委員會的主任委員陳金德先生擔任代行這個行政院長相關的工作所以啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1332.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1361.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
縱向 你沒有縱向 你是最高指導對下面這些各部會啊還有地方政府鄉鎮公所整個重建啊要請這個副主委啊能夠啊盡可能我們李毅德副主委拜託你們能夠全力的投入第一個問題現在這麼多的這麼多的清出來的這些沙土在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1362.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1364.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
要请问要如何去化 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1367.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1392.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
要如何去化?跟委員報告啦齁那當然這個新出的商品我們已經開過一次會囉是是是我們在四月份有跟那個委員開過一次會啦齁那現在大概幾個方向也都在進行當中第一個當然就是說我們一些土砂就是限地的工程就是可以做填方來使用啦齁那第二個當然就是去加大那個整個盤點的量能來擴大那個東砂北運的這樣的一個量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1393.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1417.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那第三部分呢我們大概還現在也在盤其他的比如說我們在花蓮沿海這邊有一些海岸的沖石地區是不是可以就近的去做這個填足這也在評估當中那所以我們大概會有這些方式來做那有一些齁有一些就是像比如說農業種摘區這個他可能就是就地我們看是有土方流失在那邊多少然後重新做一個高層的重新的重抓 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1418.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1442.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
讓農業部去做一個整體規劃重裝之後那個整個水路跟道路就一併再重新來規劃設計但是這個過程中的話我們大概還是會有一些權宜的這些措施來確保當地的地區能夠比較不容易自災啦謝謝副主委你們現在所做的相關的規劃但是現在還是暫置在光復鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1444.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1465.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
你們目前還是暫置不管暫置在河床裡面也好暫置在台塘土地也好目前都還在暫置現在防汛期到了本席在這裡特別提醒一場大雨來地方政府好不容易把水溝清一清好一場大雨來又到水溝裡去 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1467.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1495.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這個重複這樣的循環你們終究解決的辦法應該很積極的拿出來本席上次你請教過你們可以去詢問到底從各種溪流下來的這些砂石一般是流到太平洋去就是流到太平洋去為什麼我們這些清出來未來幾千萬噸的這些砂土能不能直接 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1496.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1520.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
倒置在太平洋裡面 把它清乾淨以後倒置在太平洋這個比較複雜一點 需要再詳細評估因為畢竟他的路程 他不是說太平洋就在旁邊太平洋就在旁邊不是 但是你從因為到花蓮港你從現在鳳林這邊再沿著花蓮溪只有40公里你這個回答我不滿意喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1522.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1543.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我跟委員報告不是在否定委員現在提出來的想法但是任何的想法不是你不能否定嘛因為你不能打嘴砲嘛你如果不搬出來要搬到哪裡去呢跟委員報告就不是打嘴砲所以才會講得比較清楚你才需要詳細評估嘛詳細評估要到什麼時候現在那些不斷在惡性循環你沒有看到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1544.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1570.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我想這個有階段性的處理方式我們當然是以不要再讓這個我們現在在處理過程當中產生的這些土砂然後去影響再造成第二次傷害嘛那可是第一個還是要先把那個現在去的話不管是送到西部也好還是送到水泥廠也好還是送到哪裡去也好路程都是一樣你都一定要出來最近的地方叫花蓮港 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1572.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1580.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
對不對 還有什麼路程的問題你不管去哪裡 除了就地 你們所謂的超級堤防超級堤防 你們的堤防越蓋越高進一步十年不輸菌馬丹西幾年沒有輸菌 進一步幾年沒有輸菌 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1593.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1621.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
還要回憶喔包委員你們都有公告啊幾年沒有回憶我們其實在馬太安都有定期跟縣政府我們也有輸不要去扯其他單位啦主管單位是你啦有我們都有共同在輸菌九合局水利署幾年沒有輸菌回答本席的問題不用牽扯不用牽扯那麼多我們即使去年都還有在輸菌啊去年什麼時候去年什麼時候五月六月你們有公告嗎我們都有輸啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1622.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1635.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
去沒有公告公告在哪裡 本席調查你多少資料出來我跟委員報告我們最主要現在我現在告訴政告經濟部不要老是在這裡嘴硬到去年5月 你說準備輸進2016年到2025年那你們在幹嘛核藏品路面高9年不輸進 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1650.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1673.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
草菅人命 罔顧地方的安全體防拼命加高這就是水利署啊 這樣子排水啊光復附近有多少條溪啊可以越加越高就可以嗎10年不輸菌現在加高體防就好你們常年每年都做 今天有這個問題嗎水利署我回去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1681.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1703.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所以經濟部全部剛剛農業部講的現在司法調查中本須尊重但是你們所有的輸進都有公告你們自己回去看一下不是現在後面可以偷改偷加的啦十年荒廢造成這麼大的災難 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1704.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1730.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
到現在還是經濟部本期實在是碰到你們經濟部剛剛大家一直在講這個表不要了大家一直在講說淹水5月15號又來了公共城委員會很厲害馬上就講地方政府地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1733.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1755.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所以沒有做好水淹進來那我請教一下那個工程會副主委你先請他們哪個部分有問題我想這個是在那個就是剛剛有提到就是有一個那個縣管河川那個備水堤的工程因為他設計就是480公尺可是有一個大概幾公尺施工變道下去那剛好那天的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1757.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1773.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
就是可能在那個溪盤那邊第一個他沒有水位監測器那再來就是那間的雨量比較驟降下來所以他就從那個便道整個整個那個開口啊就跑出去您是副主委耶你到今天還在講故事啊整個過程你還不清楚啊水從哪裡來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1779.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1804.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
雨量集中在那個地方 它就上面這樣過去然後水的水勢比較高就滲進去現在我的施工便當是在上游欸喔沒有 就是在上面這邊 它是上游啊不是上游 這是在上游淹過去啊它是回灌回來的 從哪裡回灌的從哪裡回灌的 應該是花蓮溪那裡啦它是接花蓮溪啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1807.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1834.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
馬達納西來來來馬達納西接花蓮西看一下下一張下一張再來再來北溪要讓你了解這個是九合群施工的變道他的寒管就堵住了堵住了最後水回堵回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1835.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1847.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以回顧回去 報告委員 這個事實上是去年在應該是 這不是最近的照片啦我們事實上完成以後的這些 請問有閘門 最後挖開是誰去挖的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1851.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1867.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我們後來已經有做一個閘門在那邊 而且我們閘門都有 閘門有沒有堵住沒有 我們有影片 我們有影片我們這次影片 影片送給本席是 影片可以給你看 就是說他的排水是順暢的沒有關係 本席也會再找你 是沒有問題最後旁邊土是誰挖開的不用挖排水自然 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1878.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1888.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
這個原來是個開口題吧委員談的是開口題 我們後來把它改成了閘門沒有關係 今天委員會 本席會跟你長相左右齁是沒有問題 我們都可以提供資料影片請快送過來還有經濟部本席再提醒你一下齁你們所有的影片齁很好趕快提供本席啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1907.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1928.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
不只有錄音還有會議記錄四方去年8月11號千交代萬交代經濟部要把兩個開口笛補起來前年李康瑞台風就是從那裡驗到佛祖街前年11月嚴過一次去年要你們補那兩個開口笛還是不補還是從那裡進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1931.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1952.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
這不只有會議紀錄還有錄音 通通都有你們到時候一個司法單位講吧好 再過來現在工程會 我要請教一下我們現在300億第一期變成270億270億裡面發包了255億嘛 對不對還有15億的預備金嘛後續還有30億嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1960.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1976.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
因為啊現在還初步就還有45億可以用是不是可以把這45億請工程會也不是主管機關盡快到地方去跟地方來座談可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1978.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
2007.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
對於災民救助的部分災民救助的部分但是民運現在聲音這麼大一直沒有解決一直沒有解決我想跟委員報告一下因為那個馬太西的部分因為現在水利署正在規劃就是馬太西北岸萬榮的部分因為想說讓他保護的更完善一點所以有考慮要徵收取得馬太西北岸大概400公頃的這些土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
2008.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
2034.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那如果這個把這個東西定案規劃算進去之後其實我們不管是剩下30億再加上預備金現在也沒有到那個剩下那個15億加進去它其實經費還會短缺我忘記大概有十幾億30億還是40億的短缺的金額啦短缺可以向立法院提出來啊可是這樣就會超過我就是說300億去算的話我們條例不是不能改啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
2037.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
2061.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
賴總統不是說條例不夠可以再加條例嗎我只是如實跟委員報告現在這個狀況我們也是如實照賴總統講的告訴你不是嗎我是說剩下的30億救他就完整的把他救完嘛我們就盡量把他救完 不夠錢的話我們再來想辦法地方的民怨要趕快解決 好不好另外現在整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
2063.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
2075.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
施工整個重建的進度你們跟不管是 現在250億的部分中央執行是多少 經貿是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
2079.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
2104.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
根本我現在手上沒有中央跟地方分別執行的金額啦不過大概就是很多的計畫就是在軌道上在進行啦大概七成多八成中央執行就是各部會把它單起來在做嘛然後地方的話大概三成多有沒有四成我不曉得兩成多三成現在是多少沒關係沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
2109.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
2127.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我們現在持續來追蹤列管啦 進度上追蹤列管 很好請追蹤列管啦 既然副主委說追蹤列管你們就要保持每一天都要密切的聯繫是 會的 一定會有那你們的這個質詢力啊你們在經費支付的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
2136.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
2154.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
支付的進度交給鄉村公所還有這個縣政府大概現在起付的金額大概多少如果他有有有核銷來請款的話就是有些是有就是一定是馬上給啊沒有任何拖欠的問題他什麼樣可以來請款 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
2158.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
2185.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
有些是已經預撥下去了吧直接撥了啊 都直接撥了啊比如說像那個內政部補助縣政府做的那些不管是清淤啊 還是排水啦還是說那個道路的這些工程啊 或者是說你們什麼時候撥款的什麼時候撥款的不是都有撥嗎撥款的進度啊 撥款的進度啊計劃核定嘛 啊他要請款嘛他沒來 縣府只要來請款就會進度核定啦你們錢都撥了什麼還沒有來請款 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
2188.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
2210.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
有些是先撥了嘛很多撥了啦很多還沒有來請啦請款之前要做哪些工作要核銷啊要核銷對不對要發包對不對他發包要核銷然後他反正就核實的看是階段到所以這是有一個前置的一個進度在那裡嘛對不對啊你們下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
2217.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
2237.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
這個東西是根本現在你們已經撥款了然後你們這個數字也不去調整跟地方政府也沒有做好一個聯繫的工作不要把這個錯誤的圖卡還放在你們那裡地方政府依照設計規劃發包決標然後錢還要送議會審查通過才會跟你們請款對不對什麼打這個鈴 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
2246.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
2274.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
數字趕快調整你們幾副的錢都已經下去了數字趕快調整我們何時來更新啦要更新不要再給側翼來這裡詐問詐答不要演這種戲做到哪裡我們就做到哪裡有核銷有聯盟好 不要在這邊唱戲就在就認真一點趕快把它重建完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
2275.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
2285.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
不要雙方在那邊故意拿一個零來問你們自己撥的款都20%了怎麼會是零我們水利署撥的更多好 謝謝 |