| IVOD_ID |
169509 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169509 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-20T18:11:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-20T18:27:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e8e93c7ebde79bae936e5857ed8ba28a7568857f6f1e6f3b10feea80fe6987ffd23dda6d107b523c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
范雲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
18:11:59 - 18:27:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-20T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「本（第5）會期延長會期至115年7月31日止。」是否有當？請公決案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、總統彈劾案事項。（5月19日上午）四、「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案籌編相關事項」專案報告。（5月19日下午）五、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國防部部長及相關部會首長列席報告保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案編製經過並備質詢。【如經本院同意行政院籌編特別預算案則於5月20日(三)下午加開】六、5月15日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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麻煩再請卓院長備選 |
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謝謝卓院長今天辛苦了昨天一場專案報告然後今天又一場預算編列的報告我今天主要是想請問被藍白丟下的4700億到底如何補回 |
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我想不知道院長怎麼看我們這次特別條例的名稱叫保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計劃採購特別條例您覺得這裡面大概有多少是在強化不對稱戰力還是強化不對稱戰力是不是有很多的東西其實是被丟包了 |
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整個特別條例跟特別預算的最癥結的重心點就是在發揮我們不對稱戰力我們看看惡霧戰爭就好了以小博大不對稱戰力而且要長期有個大量穩定的一個支持系統在後勤甚至將 |
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86.147 |
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能夠自主研發自己來製造才能避免當外援為了來一擊送過來的時候我們如果來自己研發製造相關所需要的武器設備所以應該是要這幾個層面都要 |
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101.784 |
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涵蓋住 另外重要的是我們這裡有一個台灣之盾那台灣之盾在現在7800億當中也沒有全然也沒有包含在裡面那我們高科技的擊殺鏈也有部分的缺漏所以這整個7800億跟原來的1.25兆的整個特別條例跟特別預算的精神裡面當然落差很大我們勢必要想辦法補救 |
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123.96 |
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142.981 |
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我想這個跟委員報告我想不對稱的有一個當然除了激動隱匿跟致命的一個活力之外一個最重要就一個成本效益的概念那這個我想大家也您都很清楚那無人機或者無人艇這個裡面就是很重要的一個具有成本效益的一個 |
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144.022 |
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在台海的防衛作戰上面扮演的這種我們如果要做成一個地域景象的話是一個很重要的一個那這個就是要透過國防自主產業鏈自主生產才有可能我們不可能去外購然後到了戰事的時候還能夠維持這樣的韌性然後這樣子的一個自主製造的能力這個烏克蘭的戰爭中看得非常非常的清楚所以現在俄國也在發展它的無人機產業 |
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172.465 |
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189.203 |
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生產鏈然後烏克蘭也有他自己的生產鏈我想從院長跟部長講的這次這個條例應該要改名因為強化不對稱戰略裡面的兩個重點台灣之盾沒有完整然後無人載具的這個產業鏈也幾乎沒有了 |
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191.725 |
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那我不知道剛剛顧部長您聽了那個林沛翔委員的問題有什麼感受我在那邊覺得挺荒謬的因為他最後不是還問您說這個現代的戰爭什麼不能夠只重視重型的這些武器然後還請教他他提到兩個重點第一個就是國防自主的重要性第二個他想要彈藥這個 |
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215.387 |
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239.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我問您彈藥可以撐多久對不對對 彈藥重點 我剛剛有回答他如果就彈藥的生產線我們在特別運送我們要就增加14條的生產線那這個完全被刪掉所以他剛剛提到說作戰在持續力上面要增加這個彈藥的這個囤儲甚至增加彈藥的自主生產能量那這個部分剛好就被砍掉那國防自主就是剛剛講的就是無人機那我們就是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
240.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
261.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
一個不假外求我們要建立自主的產業鏈這也全部被砍掉了對 所以我懷疑他的助理幫他寫這個質詢稿是不是在害他就是好像並不是很了解他們到底刪除了什麼我想這一次我們有看到就不只是我們國內非常多的支持者失望 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
262.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
288.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
在這個被刪除之後很多的網友自主性的告訴大家無人機跟無人機產業應該講無人載具因為無人艇其實也包含在裡面那我們的國際盟友也表達失望這邊有新聞報導美國的高級官員覺得希望未通過的部分也能夠到位那這邊是我們民進黨團整理的這一次被刪除的衝突請問部長這邊並沒有遺漏吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
291.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
313.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
剛剛那個林佩祥委員講的就是第四項嘛他完全不了解他們刪除了這個產能擴充產線彈藥的部分他最後還講說戰爭最重要的就是國內要有民間的生產線也完全就是遺忘了我們這一次所講的就是就是後職就是本土的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
314.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
338.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這是國防的產業主要就是講無人載具的部分這個圖是我上次總質詢的時候部長應該記得我拿以色列的鐵穹來問您請問一下這次台灣之盾是不是整個大腦指揮系統都被刪除了還是還有一部分這部分請顧部長可以回答嗎因為剛剛院長有說這其實就不完整了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
342.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
應該這樣回答就是說我們整個AI指管系統部分在這個案項裡面沒有被納入至於其他的部分我想現在還不能夠說得太清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
356.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好 那其實就是我們剛剛所說的是第三項這個部分嗎就是這個民進黨團做的我們的AI的這個輔助指揮決策系統這個部分被刪除那這個還有我們現在這個台灣戰術網路因為台灣戰術網路現在是作為我們地面作戰共同作戰圖像一個很重要的網路系統那藉由這個TECH的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
383.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
405.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
決志套件然後來建立我們的共同作案圖像那這個共同作案圖像以後會越來越擴張那擴張以後就成為一個我們作為這個再加上AI的指揮決策之後就形成一個共同的作案圖像那這個對我們未來的作戰我是認為非常非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
406.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
429.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
對 謝謝部長的說明以我對這次中東還有以色列的理解人民能夠繼續的生活維持原來的生活方式跟這個鐵穹的保護網非常的重要那國際上也說美國其實也有一個被叫做金穹所以我們這次這個臺灣之盾非常的重要那很遺憾這次有一些重要的大腦指揮系統也被刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
431.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
458.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
無人機跟烏克蘭的經驗我想大家剛剛都講了很多我們也看到因為它的製造成本低比一輛中古車還便宜它在這次的俄國戰爭中精準打擊俄軍的後勤跟防空真的是以小博大所以我想剛剛大家也有提到烏克蘭從產量零到年產量五百萬架 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
459.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
471.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那烏克蘭可以做到我們臺灣一定能做到吧因為我們臺灣現在就有267家的業者投入這個無人機供應鏈請問顧部長你應該知道經濟學人是哪一國的雜誌部長知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
478.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
504.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
經濟學人對他不是美國的他也不是台灣的他基本上是很獨立的以英國這邊為主的對所以沒有人能夠影響他寫什麼這是今年三月經濟學人有一篇在講台灣的無人機他裡面就是談到說全球無人載具的供應鏈七到八成被中國佔據民主國家認為這是安全的威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
505.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
521.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
而且他深入的去講台灣的無人機產業現在就有兩個實例第一個已經發展出完全不含中國製的零組件第二個價格更具競爭力比同樣的日本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
521.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
547.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不含中國領主建的還要便宜許多所以他也訪問了我們本土廠商結果本土廠商說最擔心政治因素會導致國家需求有一年有一年沒有因為俄烏戰爭如果結束了市場的需求會變低那會讓在地的飛鴻供應鏈高度的擔憂所以產能可能也沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
547.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
573.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我有看到菁英學人他也有報導就是說台灣無人機產業快速出口他講到是2025年的那個出口量已經超過2024年的35倍他有提到所以這個可見我們無人機的這個部分在我們半導體還有軟體開發跟機密機械的部分因為領先全球所以我們是認為有相當好的一個條件來發展無人機產業鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
577.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
596.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個部分我們也就是希望透過一個長單一個規模穩定的預算讓他們有信心去建置這樣的一個產業國外的這些當然也有一定的技術會透過這樣的一個長單具有規模的需求量來跟我們國內進行合作形成一個迭代創新的良性發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
602.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
630.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以從部長講的就是長單非常的重要因為就是說國內就有基本的需求對廠商來講他要擴建產能要投資都很重要那可以請問部長就是我們剛講到烏克蘭現在年產量500萬架那台灣的當然我想這個價格包含就是無人載具各方面數量不一樣台灣現在的年產量大概用數字來講的話您知道是大概多少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
631.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我想現在台灣的這個因為大部分都是我們有很多的中小企業他必須要聚合在一起那所以要做一些系統的整合就這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
646.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
666.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
要能夠完成這樣的一個系統整合就必須要政府要推一把那當然經濟部提供補助的政策那麼這個國防部率先來提出這個採購的一個策略我想這樣子才能夠提高我們所需要的這個產量它重點是在自主性 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
667.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
685.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
就像經濟學人講的我們有辦法做到沒有就是Made in China完全排除非紅的部分這是第一點第二點所有相關的這些迭代創新的這些技術都能夠落地在台灣那你如果還要仰賴國外的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
687.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
710.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
不是完全的自主那這樣子的防衛韌性還有作戰的持續力就會完全大幅的下降所以無人機是我們一個很有機會的一個已經有媒體在認為說可能會是一個新的護國神山事實上是有這個潛能嘛你看像美伊的衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
711.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
736.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
伊朗到現在為止他還有能力來這個用他的小黑的無人機來形成一定的一個威脅這個就是表示說即使他的防空系統被打掉了即使他的這些相關的很多指管的系統也被打掉了但是他還是有一定的這個無人機的話他還是會對區域產生一定的威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
737.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
766.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
更有趣的就是美國現在要為了要不管是無人機或反制無人機他也開始採用這樣子的一個所謂成本效益cost effective這樣的一個概念來去發展這樣子的無人系統這樣子所以這個可以看到每一個國家那日本黃岳大臣最近也公布了他們要建構無人機的國航自主的產業能力所以他也表示他們要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
766.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
779.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以這個民主的國家形成一個民主的供應鏈然後排除紅色的這個零組件我想這個是大家的一個共識那我們當然要參與其中而且我們要加力 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
780.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
805.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
剛剛我在聽林佩祥委員他一直把我們跟烏克蘭比說我們沒有一個深厚的內陸等等我想他忘記了很多人都說我們有一個台灣海峽並沒有直接在陸地接連這是重要的差異那台灣海峽來講除了無人機之外那無人艇就是國防部的規劃跟想像是什麼呢因為很多人談到無人艇甚至有炸藥的無人艇其實對 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
806.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
820.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們前線很重要我們在這一次特別預算裡面規劃的是屬於自殺的無人艇大概一千三百多艘這個我想也是現在無人艇的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
823.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
850.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這種遠距的導控還有對於相關的這些通訊的維持等等都有我們一定要透過這樣子的一個採購來讓這個能力能夠提升那未來有機會台灣自己製造嗎無人艇我們就是要讓台灣自己能夠製造無人艇我們也都會自己製造包委員我去看過廠商他們已經有原型事實上就是國防部他們要選上 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
851.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
859.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那非常可惜了 這沒有拉進去 他們已經準備好了但是這個預算就可能還要再怎麼樣處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
860.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
881.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那我想就是這個的確可以讓國人能夠知道的更仔細最後我想請問院長就是特別條例追加預算跟年度公務預算哪一個更能有助於耗值本土無人機產業因為剛講的長單非常的重要穩定性的每年都有需求不知道院長覺得這三個哪一個好 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
882.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
897.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
當然我們還要進一步的研議不過無人載具的這個產業如果我們要長期讓它有效的發展它勢必是一個相當可觀的一筆預算跟執行的年限那麼如果量是這樣大的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
897.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
910.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那放在公務預算我會認為顯然沒有辦法在現在公務預算來全部的涵蓋當中所以必須要其他配套的方式或是加其他的方式才能辦法把無人機產業無人載具的產業能夠全數的在相當的時間內把它發展起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
915.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
929.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
謝謝院長我想和平唯一的保障是實力如同院長講的國家安全是臺灣經濟發展人民安居樂業的基礎那我們全力支持國防部把臺灣的安全補回來謝謝三位 |