| IVOD_ID |
169461 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169461 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-15-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-20T10:25:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-20T10:40:55+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e8e93c7ebde79bae9d8fd8e390b8ef123847d5ba5f4714201cbc05507f2af63427c4fbec8c3d8b6c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
高金素梅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:25:11 - 10:40:55 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況(含上會期臨時提案辦理情形) ，並備質詢。） |
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主委今天520這個賴總統就職已經快兩年了如果要我給原民會打分數我覺得原民會非常的不及格除了不及格之外呢你們心裡面有沒有想到全台灣的原住民族的權利我也打一個非常大的問號馬上就要審理預算了所以在這裡呢我有幾件事情要就教您 |
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您看到原住民地區有非常多的地方民意代表的連署書嗎?在網路上非常的氣憤,您看過嗎?主委,你看過沒有?你只要回答我,看過沒有?好,我念一段給你聽 |
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我們是各地方的民意代表今天共同連署是因為許多原住民的族人長期反應不是不願意守法也不是不願意授信而是我們想要走合法安全的路卻排不到課等不到班 |
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援軍民主狩獵不是犯罪,也不是特權,而是長久以來的生活、文化與傳承。政府若要求族人依法使用、依法管理自治列強,就應該要提供足夠、清楚、可參加的安全訓練。 |
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讓族人知道怎麼合法怎麼安全也讓地方政府跟執法人員有一致的標準這是他們最卑微的要求主委你怎麼看這件事這個我想我也是這樣可能大家是就是有一點誤會我們去年也有開課那今年我們希望說在北中南東都能夠開這樣的一個這個訓練課程 |
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那當然這個因為它這個是比較特殊我們必須也要協助他們找到合宜的場地所以當然審核上我們就會沒有那麼快那就是說我們今年也希望能夠 |
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154.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們希望在今年我們5月已經開始就是在採購公告了那我們希望今年我們也預計一個人數我們希望是不是可以拉到最少要一個班30個人最多50個人希望今年可以有1200個人取得即可證書主委你必須要承認一下在5月5號之前原民會你們其實呢並沒有專心處理這件事情我為什麼這麼說你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
155.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
178.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為呢 人民會你們僅僅在屏東 是不是因為你們的家鄉 我不知道啦齁只有一場 而且呢 人數少之又少我認為這不是量能不足 這根本就是把絕大部分的族人的需求當一回事我剛剛講掉 很希望不要因為某些立法委員 或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
179.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
197.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
主委您是屏東人所以才做屏東所以我在5月5號的時候在我辦公室有要求中歸處必須要在花蓮跟台東為什麼是花蓮跟台東因為花蓮跟台東的民意代表還有人民憤怒啊對我辦公室來講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
198.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
221.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以當時政會處的處長有答應必須要在一個月內競速開課這三個地方 對嗎 請問一下處長我跟委員報告有誤會 屏東不要再講那件事情了 屏東還沒有上課所以屏東也是在你們準備上課之一是不是當然我們北中南中高屏都要辦那現在是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
222.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
236.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那請問周孟柱處長請你正式的回答我5月5號在我們辦公室有花蓮跟台東的議員來陳情你答應我在一個月內要競速開課那現在主委又告訴我說是屏東也要開 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
237.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
263.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
還有哪些地方要開跟委員報告目前向本會提報希望地方政府要辦的地方政府共有屏東縣花蓮縣及台東縣三個縣他們都報計劃過來了已經報了嗎都已經送到一個月內要處理好不好是可以開課嗎特別跟委員報告就像上次協調會的時候一樣花蓮縣的代表當天其實也提出了很多需要我們協調處理的技術問題那我們已經把這個公文 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
264.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
278.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
只是他們如何做調整的公文都已經發下去請問一下一個月內能不能進速開課我們一定會在一個月內把這三個地方政府都請來當面協調幫忙另外因為有時間有限我們就很簡短的回應另外請教文書處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
280.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
306.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
請問一下 之前這個業務在中規處 是不是會移撥到您招文處現在未來的獵人的獵槍訓練會移撥到本處來處理好 您要準備怎麼做報委員 我們現在已經正正積極的研擬招報文件我們希望在5月底能夠上網招標然後在7月的時候開始受了我們族人的獵人的報名然後8月可以正式上網所以有包括住宿跟膳食費嗎 交通費嗎都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
308.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
328.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
交通熱線他們要治理,然後我們會提供上述的支持我跟各位理解的很快的,在這邊讓我的族人清楚的了解一個是五月底以前,就是一個月之內一個月之內,地方縣政府就是中規促在辦理的時候花蓮、台東、屏東三個一個月之內趕快開課,對吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
330.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
345.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為這是地方政府要辦的嘛是然後五月以後挪到教文處的手上的時候你們會統籌辦理所以不再是地方政府辦了還是回歸到原民會辦了好謝謝主委你看一個那麼簡單的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
351.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
362.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你們搞了這麼久那麼複雜今天終於有個定案了接著我要問的是原住民聯絡道路的部分聯絡道路養護的經費對原鄉市的很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
364.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
389.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
是不是很重要你們還沒有就任這個位置之前本席在112年到114年帶著原鄉的山長曾經到行政院去我們要到了1.7億的經費這1.7億的經費是要來完成原住民聯絡道路養護的經費做得非常好也非常需要也因此原鄉的道路 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
390.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
401.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
一個一個被維修一個一個被維護了可是在今年你們的預算只剩下6500萬一億元不見了請問主委你要怎麼處理你要怎麼跟族人交代跟委員報告就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
406.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
420.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那個我們現在要怎麼樣因應就是說在這個100本年度啦原住民族部落的特色這個道路韌性的提升計畫我們是核定7300多萬還有遺跡部落的建設我們是核定2626萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
424.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
433.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
養護經費的分配還有執行的計畫我問您的是這一個請您明確的告訴我我已經講得很清楚112年到114年本席我跟蘇貞昌院長爭取到了1.7億的部落養護經費因為我們一直在修道路一直在修道路但是呢沒有養護的錢而原鄉的養護很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
451.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
466.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
每一個聯絡道路又那麼長當時我們是爭取到1.7億現在我只看到6千萬請問一下包委員因為怎麼辦以後那第一個部分就主要是因為採訪通過之後地方財源增加所以我們這部分經費相對簡略 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
470.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
479.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為地方財源增加所以新入縣在今年特別增加給尖石五峰各4千萬所以你的意思是說 爭取到的每年1.7億已經被中央打折打到6千萬了那以後這些錢就靠地方政府剩多少 8千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
491.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
508.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不夠的部分將近一億不夠是各縣市政府在財化法裡面要分配到原鄉的意思嗎我們現在一一六年還是希望能夠爭取回來元安二都我們目前正在爭取什麼時候要爭取我們現在提了一一六年需求的時候我們已經把我們需求提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
510.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
520.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
1.15年沒有,只有1.16年有其他部分的話,我們用這個道路的計畫來支持能不能答應我,也告訴我們這個55個原住民鄉的鄉長們這個錢你們會找回來給他們?我們會去爭取爭取不到嗎?主委下台 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
532.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
541.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
還是怎麼樣我們還有其他計畫可以支持所以嘛你現在是不是告訴我們很正確明確的告訴我們的鄉長養護大陸的經濟還是有你們原來會把它沖下來可以嗎有好 謝謝來 第三個傳統領域的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
550.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
565.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
主流我們在使用土地的時候根本就沒有所謂的公有私有的概念最高行政法院在112年度上至第487號的判決也清楚的指出傳統領域是不分公私有 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
566.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
582.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
原文會裡面當時也公開的說你們會通用檢討然後也會邀集學者專家全面檢視傳統領域畫色跟諮商同意的機制也會持續跟立法委員來充分討論請問將近一年了主委哪一項完成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
585.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
605.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
跟委員報告,其實我們在2014年做完判決之後我們從2014年10月8號開始,就辦理到我們下鄉去辦理三場傳統領域化社集體上同一個座談會那目前這三場座談會收集過來的意見的部分就是說贊成跟反對的部分,都沒有過半,換句話說這個部分是沒有共識的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
610.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
612.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
道歉 道歉最高行政法院112年度上至第487號判決清楚地說傳統領域不分公私有 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
625.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
647.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你們已經有了這麼樣的一個判決更何況台北市政府把這個有利族人的判決也列為精選的判決法律資料也特別的在討論其他的在野黨的團體也公開的支持傳統領域不分公私有整個大社會都是往前面走只有你們還在裝睡啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
649.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
676.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
各位報告那請你不要說現在的結果是怎麼樣那我合理的懷疑請你不要再解釋我合理懷疑我合理懷疑我們的民進黨政府尤其是園民會你們是不是在護航執政黨政府的能源署的地熱開發能源署大喇喇的說只要涉及原住民族公有土地者才需要資深同意主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
677.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
689.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
聽好,如果原民會是不站在原住民族土地權益這一邊,那你們是要怎麼樣向主人報告?原民會你還能做些什麼?主委請您回答有沒有混行這回事情?不會如果沒有混行,什麼時候能夠做好? |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
699.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
710.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這麼多的判例已經說了而部落就因為這樣子的部分一直在有非常多的糾結跟困擾你們到底要不要解決我們的主人的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
713.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
732.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
要解決我馬上就要審你們的預算了如果你們在這段時間還不處理還不給主任一個交代的話我會在預算書上面跟你們做一些主決議甚至於凍結你們預算其他很快說明一下還有什麼事情你們沒有做好抱歉再給我一點時間謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
735.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
754.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
現在地會原住民已經超過六成了除了你比我清楚 當時原住民發展條例的承諾第二會期會提出結果一年過去了 還是看不到喔請問這一年在幹嘛 在裝死 裝睡還是根本不在乎這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
755.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
784.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
主委你看你都沒辦法回答你今天要來這裡備詢你都不知道這件事我不知道主委你每天在幹什麼第二件事情代金業務你們1月答應的事情到現在也還沒做完第三個中發基金裁員的問題到現在也還沒有解決第四個更不要講長期以來我們原運包括你也在內我們原運一直在推動的原住民自治法土海法 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
785.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
809.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
520了賴總統任職520了連版本都還沒有這樣子一路看下來 園民會啊你們真的實在是沒有一件事情辦得好的呀如果園民會主委你在這裡的位置上你只是跑活動只是每一個地方去跟人家頒獎或者是做報告或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
811.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
824.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
編了一大堆的錢然後去辦一個原住民的族人都不會在乎的一些節目八千萬就只剪了四集我講的是一個世界原住民大會 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
825.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
842.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
花了這麼多錢然後減了四個級然後如果人民會你們的根本只是在做這種事情的話我想這並不符合人民會存在的指標跟意義跟價值人民會 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
843.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
866.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們爭取來的這一個單位最重要的是捍衛原住民的尊嚴爭取原民會的原住民的預算讓原住民可以活在一個非常有尊嚴自治管理的路上可是這樣子看起來好像都沒有這個部分我們都有在努力就像原住民主運動會其實跟我們報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
866.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
884.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
有很多的族人他感覺很有尊榮感不是沒有喔那各項的這個我不管是在文化健康部我們也有在努力你們的感知跟感受跟基層的族人差很多你們的尊榮感只有在媒體上偶爾出現的那幾個畫面 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
888.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
909.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
畫面結束了 回到部落 要解決的問題還是沒有辦法解決該解決的問題 還是沒有辦法解決原住民的自治法 屠海法 援運走了這麼長一條路連一個版本都沒有 主委 要好好的檢討我希望 民視全民的 原住民的主委 不是某一個族人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
910.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
937.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
的主委我也希望您在這個位置上能夠替原住民的族人爭取最好的尊嚴而不是只是跑地方活動還有很多的事情必須要做給你鼓勵審預算的時候我會好好把關你們的預算到時候我剛剛以上說的這些沒有做好就別怪原住民的立法委員會凍結或者是刪除或做一些比較嚴格的主決議來監督你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
939.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
939.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝委員 |