| IVOD_ID |
169444 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169444 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-19-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-20T10:04:38+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-20T10:20:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e8e93c7ebde79baed9949e357cd84968b2ebd91c2d73985b1cbc05507f2af6342aad447d12a835725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:04:38 - 10:20:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣糖業股份有限公司。(詢答)
【所列預算提案於115年6月5日(星期五)下午5時截止收件】
【5月20日及5月21日二天一次會】） |
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好 接下來請楊瓊瑩委員質詢謝謝主席 楊瓊瑩發言首先來邀請台電請台電董事長那個總經理 新任的總經理總經理 顧總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.607 |
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董事長總經理那總經理新上任你強調自己是穩定供電的操盤手那你也表示今年年底將要完成台中電廠新一更新二號的這個燃氣機組 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.261 |
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73.083 |
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那我想我們長期跟董事長不管他擔任市長或者擔任總經理我們一直在討論怎麼樣讓台中的空氣能夠更清新怎麼樣能夠還給我們台中人的一個健康呼一口新鮮的空氣那所以呢因此中部地區的人呢付出了那麼多中火在那裡所以我們好不容易以氣來換煤那所以我想要首先請 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.244 |
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85.112 |
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那個總經理回答好了你既然是總盤操盤手那請問什麼時候新一號二號的燃氣機組可以上傳來按下去對好可以委員好目前是五月份的時候本年度的五月份的時候會一號機會接受調度 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
105.45 |
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132.191 |
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已經都接受調度2號機是在預計11月份的時候會接受調度所以換句話說燃氣機組1號機5月份就現在2號機是11月份我們的指標是如此會完成因為目前進度是應該是OK的這個是機組接受調度上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
133.462 |
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153.221 |
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所以換句話說時間可能還會超前那再請教什麼時候拆我們的這個藍莓機組2026年如果12號機商轉之後就是在今年年底今年年底拆藍莓機組的1號機跟2號機 |
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157.383 |
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167.466 |
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我們這個是長期大家一直努力所以一定要達成成功因為中部地區我再強調我們付出了那麼多理當還給我們清新的空氣所以我們預計在今年年底拆藍莓機組的一號機跟二號機那其餘的我們明年度還是繼續加油只要有爭氣 |
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183.43 |
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192.832 |
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就是要拆煤以這個原則好 謝謝你 接下來董事長 部長來 請經濟部長一起來總經理請回座好了台電是國家非常重要的資產 我們都說台電不能倒台電的員工很辛苦 但是台電的負債讓我們這個要謹慎為之那謹慎為之的時候呢 如果 |
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213.871 |
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229.28 |
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如果有任何應當要拿回給台電的錢而不追討回來那這個就是對不起人民那部長你也點頭 表示你認同本席的這個說法是不是是不是 對對 好 所以我們繼續來討論更為有同仁 我們繼續討論也就是人民好幾百億的血汗錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
242.952 |
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269.249 |
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台電在離岸風電發電的第二期計畫裡頭由深微能源的子公司也就是富威能源以628.88億的天價來做銅棒但到目前為止我們看到合約的採購很清楚設備採購與安裝的需求書裡頭寫得很清楚你必須在114年12月31號前必須完成全部工程的竣工 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
270.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
281.741 |
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現在是什麼時候現在是115年的5月中旬換句話說依照你的合約書你的需求量來說已經超過將近半年的時間所以要請教部長目前我們31座的機組我們安裝了幾座 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
287.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
313.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
機座我們安裝了幾座上面有寫一座幾座一座對為什麼因為他是先裝那個機裝機裝先裝完以後最後才裝風機所以他的機裝現在已經都完成了現在很快的就是把那個風機裝上去就好了機裝完成他已經超越時間剛剛你也特別回答我們只要把它裝上就好了請問什麼時候裝上 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
314.687 |
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336.341 |
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如果是今年可以繼續施工的話因為今年可以裝完如果是今年可以繼續施工換句話說你已經給人民一個答案你已經超越時間沒有完成部長你的回答不是 報告委員這個就是剛剛提到的因為兩兆在合約上有一點爭議因為他們講說有一些不可能好 你來一個來一個爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
338.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
344.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們很清楚 你告訴我們說你的工程已經完成了96%那這個不是我講的 這個是對方訴求這是你的次長說的這在媒體上面都披露 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
351.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
358.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以在這樣的情況之下這個96%到底是什麼96%是我們的預付款已經拿了人民的納稅錢的96%是不是啊委員這個不是什麼預付款我先說明一下這個契約叫做財務採購代安裝他基本上採購的是設備然後他要負責安裝完成那因為他設備都已經抵岸都已經到台中港所以他其實在整個設備的估價上面對於合約旅行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
381.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
398.709 |
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百分比依照我們標準的工程合約財務財過代安裝的合約他就是要把這些已經到達已經送抵的這些計算進去但工程還有一個最重要的一塊就是要把風機裝上這一件事海嵐目前正在施工這個是關鍵如果沒有裝上等於是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
403.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
418.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
當然裝上 它要把它好好裝上才能夠順利發電這個是關鍵的工項 這個也是確定的對 所以在這樣的情況之下 在你的需求量 你的合約裡頭寫明是要在114年的12月31號去完成這個是原來合約要完成的時間當然是你訂約要有合約啊對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
426.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
434.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那個跟委員報告就是所有的工程師做只要遇到不管是天后或其他你這個理由我們繼續來討論不可抗力我們人民情何以堪在你的第14頁裡頭的第4項裡頭完成所有風力發電機組以及海上發電的這個下部結構設置你如果明明白白寫清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
454.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
465.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你如果預約一個日曆工作天就是要罰一百零五萬三十座就是要多少呢就是要三千 一天就是要三千一百五十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
466.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
481.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那個一個月就是將近10億的錢所以就誠如與人的時候上一次我們一直討論該依法計法的411億那今天台電的二期的這個部分認為成這樣 我請問本席要請問喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
484.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
508.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本校請問因為子公司今天復會的一個情況導致聲威甚至要被爆出禁止轉付甚至要終止上市剛剛你回答了雞生蛋 蛋生雞是什麼原因我們的人民就希望要知道到底是什麼原因所以我在這邊要代表著全體的納稅人 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
510.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
511.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
要請問這一筆一天3150萬的預期違約金你台電有開罰了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
519.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
541.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我跟委員報告幾件事情我跟委員報告幾件事情第一件事情你剛才講允能的事跟這個工程合約是完全兩件事當然上次我跟你討論過我舉這個例子告訴你我講第二件事情就是升威升威的財務狀況我們的簽約對象是富威不是升威他是他的子公司所以剛剛請你針對本期的評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
545.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
547.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
請你針對本席的提問 3151億的違約金你們有沒有開罰報告委員 這些叫做工程時程進度上面中間的落差人家只要他有具體的理由他都可以具體申請好 這就是人民要聽的 具體的理由違法就是違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
567.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
571.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好 你同意這一點 我告訴你 部長站在這邊如果你要用疫情你要用惡霧戰爭你要用通膨申請 這些不可抗的爛藉口那人民的納稅錢要怎麼做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
587.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
602.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
報告委員剛才前一位委員的質詢是說我們應該要去注意這一些不可抗力因素所以光是在國會就有兩種意見那我們只能夠做一件事就是這些申訴程序就到工程會去協助好請告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
603.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
628.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
台電已經同意追加了55.57億而且還要兼顧付款你的理由有爭議就到哪裡就到這個調解委員會去做調解你們就是這麼做但是人民要問的一邊要給立法院拿千億的撥補一邊要讓台電成為私人的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
629.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
649.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
提款機部長這是不同意這樣的一個做法台電公司的財務如此你們一定要嚴格的依合約去執行當然所以本席告訴你本席告訴你本席告訴你這個628.881他的班前的三部曲第一部 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
655.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
667.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
低價投標高價變更部長你要聽清楚當時他們是用比較便宜的新聞紙來搶標得標了之後又想要要求轉換為高價的維斯塔斯的方式然後基礎可以減少這裡又莫名其妙的增加了將近70億也就是歐元的2.1億 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
681.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
692.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
在這樣子的一個情況之下就像你進了餐廳你買的是你點的是洋蔥麵但是你要付款的時候要求台電要付一個頂級的牛肉麵錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
693.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
716.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第二步 告訴你 無首轉單 移心大法台階我們編了60億的維運管理費5年但是他再發包海外的部分27億33億跑到哪裡去 部長第三個 也就是更惡劣的 你不蓋風場你海外去洗船錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
718.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
746.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
海上的風機躺在那裡 你趕快裝啊遞席啦但是他用台電的這個預付款去買了三台工作船台電的合約書裡頭沒有要求要買工作船大家都在評論這三艘的工作船 溢價了60億所以因此 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
747.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
758.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們看到這樣的情況變更機型多出了70億維運差價不見了33億海外買船又溢價了60億這是在幫台灣蓋風場嗎還是把台電剛剛本席說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
767.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
786.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
當成是提款機呢台電面對的是婦威啊我們還是針對婦威當然是婦威啊你怎麼不針對本集的提問大家都知道簽約的是婦威啊對啊你上面講的是審威的事情啊那不是婦威啊什麼審威的事情你的簽約是婦威啊對不對所以告訴你部長現在台灣看到這樣子的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
798.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
819.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
原公司 子公司互威來簽約 到現在已經搞到台灣的股市支付抵債 禁止轉付 要面臨下市 海外的資金疑雲重重那海上的風機 互威所跟你簽約的海上的風機 至今只裝了31座 只裝了一座 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
821.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
840.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
紙上的一座所以本席在這邊要嚴密的提出經濟部跟台電你必須要去徹查清楚你必須要去徹查清楚徹查什麼呢第一個 升位跟負威有名有利用 入付款來轉投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
841.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
859.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
境外公司背書保證跟有沒有不合營業常規的一個交易有沒有掏空資產他的資金流向以及在合約台電跟富威合約依法的情況之下的責任到底是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
862.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
886.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
本席嚴正的要求你在一個月內將這些的資料給本席也給我們經濟委員會大家都在關心這些錢到底目前的流向是怎麼樣這些進度到底是如何請部長我們還是按照合約來進行當然請一個月內將這些剛剛本席所提的一個月內提出報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
893.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
903.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們可以說明所以在你還沒有提出說明之前你必須要要求主案嚴格審查而且暫停所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
910.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
916.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個追加的這個預算凍結沒有 按照合約啊當然按照合約啊當然按照合約啊所以一天3100多億的這個多萬的這個錢你們到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
927.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
932.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
什麼社會去理清楚告訴社會大眾當然按照合約一定要依合約來進行一個月內請將資料給本席不要讓人民當成是開始也不要讓台電淪為私人公司的踢款機 |