| IVOD_ID |
169430 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169430 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-19T16:16:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-19T16:31:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8880074e6a4cf30be36e17e41e68a95da9272009bde436eabb1c87f72f231e0d99a31e873eea2ed35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
徐巧芯 |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:16:14 - 16:31:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-19T10:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「本（第5）會期延長會期至115年7月31日止。」是否有當？請公決案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、總統彈劾案事項。（5月19日上午）四、「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案籌編相關事項」專案報告。（5月19日下午）五、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國防部部長及相關部會首長列席報告保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案編製經過並備質詢。【如經本院同意行政院籌編特別預算案則於5月20日(三)下午加開】六、5月15日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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謝謝主席 我們是不是有請卓榮泰院長跟顧立雄部長好 請卓院長還有顧部長備詢學員好我先請教一下部長因為您剛在這個跟馬文俊委員質詢的時候提到了這個我們的M1A2T那我剛好就想要請教M1A2T的預算是在哪一年的時候開始編列的 |
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39.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
54.315 |
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M1A2T的預算你剛講的這麼快講這麼大聲我現在問你又要等這麼久不是很有把握嗎因為您問的問題是說M1A2T在什麼時候開始編列的這個開始編列的啊總額多少錢呢M1A2 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
62.918 |
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79.005 |
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我找一下慢慢等你喔我只有15分鐘的質詢時間M1A2T這麼重要的你剛剛問了老半天說哎呀因為這個預算今年的還沒有審查但他是一個非新興預算的M1A2T是108年到116年沒錯從2019年就開始編列的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
82.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
103.096 |
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它是一個連續性的分年的編列的預算所以既有的分年付款的情況之下即便在現在還沒有審議完畢之前它是可以動之的所以當初編列了405億我們每一年從2019年開始我們都有編列相關的預算我現在要問的是 |
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104.096 |
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122.832 |
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最近我們的國軍必須要傳出來提到了M1A2T戰車有嚴重的缺料以至於它的妥善率低落甚至維修未達標準的情形請部長先回答據我了解是我們現在還在接樁的過程當中沒有任何缺樁 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
124.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
140.836 |
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或者是有任何後景維持上面的任何問題所以你的意思是說在國軍地修他們在這個MIHT這邊講到的缺料然後妥善率有低然後他們維修的過程當中出現了一些問題這個是假消息是嗎 |
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141.657 |
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157.327 |
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對 就我跟陸軍的了解因為我們現在相關的我們相關的獲得成本裡面就會有包括兩到三點的這個部長講說MIA出擊的薛亮跟妥善率低落是假消息因為很多國軍弟兄在反映跟關注既然你說是假的 那你自己去跟他們解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
173.131 |
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我今天要針對的是我們FMS的這個無人機來做詢問那我們的FMS軍售的部分呢有OTS600跟OTS700的兩款攻擊型的無人機它的金額一共是在發價數上面來說的話是350億的這個台幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
177.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
201.708 |
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我請問一下到時候預算送進來這兩類型兩款無人機的預算會是多少錢?這是目前可以公開的嗎?你們會送多少預算進來?因為Artis的這個600的ISR跟700的部分我們是在5月16號才獲得一個發價數的草案所以我們現在在執行這個發價數內容的磋商跟簽署作業 |
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202.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
222.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你不是馬上要送預算進來了嗎對 那我們現在是因為那你們不是很急海瑪是不是5月31號沒有的話就來不及我們這是頭皮啊所以我問你 你預算進來 預算是多少錢大院要求我們現在一定要在特別條例之後要專案報告有馬上送所以你說你的規定是錯錯錯你真的很急嘛所以發價書上面的金額不會是預算的金額這個是對的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
246.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那所以我現在問你的說發價書是350億那預算是多少啊你現在應該可以回答我啦我們現在是根據發價書的草案來編制這個預算的金額所以你的預算送進來也只是發價書的部分的你用發價書上面的金額來送的預算一模一樣你要打算送350億進來是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
250.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
277.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
確切的金額我要再看一下因為每一個案項你現在看我給你一點時間你現在看因為我要談的事情是說你們一直講很急你們一直說這個專案報告的話會讓他很多事情delay你們一直在講說至少第一批的軍售應該是已經除了發價書之外你要送預算你可以送進來那你現在就要告訴我那預算要送多少這是一個合情合理的問題查好了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
278.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
300.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那個發價數的草案依照發價數草案的金額現在編列的全案是330億330億對所以你們會送進來的預算是330億ok好那我接下來要問就是說為什麼我們國軍在建軍的時候我們要向美方去採購OTS系列的600跟700的型號而不是其他的型號 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
301.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
325.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我们对于这两款无人机以及这一架无人机的公司之所以我们国军我们国防部在建军的时候需要它喜欢它的原因在哪边呢为什么我们觉得它比其他的无人机比如我们也有MQ-9B啊比如我们也有弹簧包啊为什么要特别买OTS-600跟700它对于我们的建军作战的需求好在哪里 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
347.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
根本報告MQ-9B是高高空的偵查了那個那個公信人跟這個那一樣我清楚我還做了表格給你看我沒說他們是一樣的不要誤解我我問的是為什麼我們要特別找這個LTS600跟700委員能不能讓我講一下要要我要讓你講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
348.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
371.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
台灣大的部分是人員殺傷型的那Artis-700主要是它對於這個反裝甲的一個攻擊的力道強那麼Artis-600的ISR是為了要做監偵也就是這兩個搭配的也就是透過Artis-600的ISR給它這個勤監證資料以後Artis-700的M可以用這個對裝甲器這個載具來進行攻擊那這個是美軍的一個現役的裝備 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
377.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
396.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我想要問一下我們對於這個OTS系列的無人機在烏克蘭戰場上面的運作我們有沒有先去了解我們的了解是英國也用了我問的是烏克蘭我問的是烏克蘭為什麼要問烏克蘭因為這是戰場實戰經驗英國現在沒有在打仗他就提供烏克蘭英國買了之後來支援給烏克蘭然後用了怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
408.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
422.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
效果沒有不好啊效果沒有不好來我們來看一下華爾街日報在去年11月下旬的時候的報導提到了我們確實經常失敗也就是這家公司Ongel它在武器技術領域遭到挫折以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
423.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
440.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
底下的這個military名是烏克蘭最著名的軍事跟國防新聞媒體他寫到的是經常失去通信無法擊中目標容易受到俄羅斯電戰系統的攻擊最後在2024年放棄了使用這樣子的無人機請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
441.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
452.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
是不是烏克蘭國家安全局SSU在戰場施力後目前已經放棄了OTS的光子型無人機在他們的戰場現在就使用有沒有這個信我跟委員報告我以美國陸軍美國陸軍的第七部兵師在2025年9月就實際驗測了這個無人機系統的作戰驗證而且是成功的我問的是戰場的實戰經驗你只要回答我剛剛的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
471.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
481.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
請問OTS的無人機是否現在還在烏克蘭的戰場他們戰爭還在進行喔請問是否還在他們戰場上繼續實戰還有沒有在使用我相信英國會採購這個OTS600M跟OTS700M來提供烏克蘭使用這是驗證了這個OTS700跟600的一個實戰的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
493.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
504.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為你驗證歸驗證我問的是你的戰場的實戰嘛就提供給烏克蘭就提供給烏克蘭對那我問你烏克蘭現在還有沒有在用你沒有回答我問題啊我剛剛問你的問題你沒有回答我啊我問你A你答我B啊還有沒有在用很簡單有還是沒有因為這個無人機的消耗量非常大嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
529.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
他不是因為被消耗掉部長你不要胡說八道他不是因為被消耗掉他是因為烏克蘭的國家安全局熱能現在他們不需要這款無人機因為他們熱能小型的FPP對他們來說是更有效的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
530.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
544.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你如果沒有去把烏克蘭跟俄羅斯他們的戰場現在在實戰的情況了解那我們怎麼會知道對我們的作戰需求去尋找尋求這一系列的無人機是否合適呢我的問題是這個委員我們冷靜下來冷靜下來我再跟委員報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
548.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
571.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
Altis這種無人機它有一個特色它就是它一個模組化的無人機的硬體之後它又不斷的軟體的改造會增加它的功性能這一個烏克蘭的戰場的一個驗證反饋他們不斷的重新調整這個產品的性能確實是在烏克蘭跟美國政府的測試當中實在是合得上這個程度合得到相當好的一個程度你是知道還是不知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
577.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
603.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
就是2024年以後 烏克蘭的戰場上還有沒有在使用這家公司所生產的無人機你是知道還是不知道 誠實回答我我現在取得的資料是說英國有提供了一套給他這一套到底有沒有使用完畢 消耗完畢而仍然繼續有後續的供應 這個我並不清楚那我就告訴你說沒有了嘛 不會看新聞喔接下來還有很多題目啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
604.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
618.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
5月16號川普在受訪的時候提到對台軍售是對大陸很好的談判籌碼這個要問我們的院長我們的軍售被川普總統說成是對大陸的籌碼請問行政院的立場跟看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
619.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
639.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
跟委員報告啊 台灣是全球核心利益的所在所以我們不會成為一個被犧牲或交易的那他怎麼說啊 你去跟川普說啊 你要大聲的告訴美國說我們不應該川普總統在北京 在飛機 以及面對媒體的詢問之外我們更要注意到美國廣泛的國會領袖長時間在台美關係的國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
646.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
672.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
院長你的意見會比賴總統的意見來得權威嗎我的意見我的意見跟總統都會是一致的那可是他們脾氣啊那川普總統講說他要把台灣的軍售當成籌碼這是事實啊所以你先不要跟他講其他的我們先就美國總統的President of the United States美國總統說要把軍售當成籌碼這件事情好歹行政院要表態吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
674.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
686.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以我們說台灣是全球核心利益之所在我們不會被這麼容易被犧牲或獎勵是不會被是不能被也不會對 你看你自敢講不會你不敢講不能也不應該嘛你就應該要告訴川普說你不應該把台灣對跟美國之間的軍事當成籌碼是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
692.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
701.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我對國家的信心就在這裡而且美方國會領袖報告他的國務卿 談判代表 美方的國會議長還有他的擁委會的主席在這幾天講過非常多話我們可以拿出來所以我問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
712.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
729.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
川普總統他會決定要不要簽署140億第二批的軍售案對吧就算是國會簽過了國會簽過了我們他也發了一些文件給我們的國防部的這我都知道整個軍售的流程是如此但是如果川普沒有簽署的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
729.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
733.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這方面我們現在聽到的狀況包括夏恩等十位議員在5月16號也希望美國政府他希望 我們也希望但我們問的是在川時後之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
747.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
767.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
他講到了要不要簽他再考慮所以我的意思是說如果今天六項保證被川普現在講成那是很久以前的事情了已經沒有六項保證了已經被破壞了儘管底下的幕僚還有參眾議員們很努力幫忙台灣我都知道但是川普他作為總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
768.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
773.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
如果川普總統他沒有簽署沒有發布是不是後續140億的美金的軍售案就沒有了我們目前的掌握是如何呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
784.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
807.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
他希望能夠堅守 但是他不能夠實行所以目前沒有發生川普總統有任何對台灣政策的變化有啊很多變化啊 他過去有六項保證他現在跟你說他不是Santa Claus啊他告訴你說他不需要台灣海峽他不會為了一個6500英里以外的地方看到任何的戰爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
808.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
810.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們現在不需要把帽子往身上一直戴 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
825.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
835.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我跟他在川習會上一直在談軍售的問題談得很詳細我會做出決定這就是六項保證的鬆動沒有扣人和帽子下一張我們再看一下他們說的我還沒有批准他我們再看看後續發展我可能會也可能不會我要問的是他可能會或可能不會你們掌握了他會還不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
855.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
877.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們努力確保台灣目前這種現狀的改變那你不知道 不知道對不對你也不知道我不知道 所以我才問你啊 我知道我問你幹嘛啊我知道的話我問你幹嘛我就是不知道 你是行政院長你才會知道啊我跟妳講的你跟我說出去啊所以我可以說 I have to speak to the person that right nowyou know who he is he is running Taiwan |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
877.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
890.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
他會是誰?我們有掌握到美國各方的訊息那川普方面的訊息呢?因為川普想要跟某一個台灣的人說話那請問一下這個Person是誰?是賴清德總統嗎?所以是賴清德總統嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
901.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
930.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
川普總統的認知那個人就是能夠再讓利台灣的人所以你也不知道他是誰嗎那如果你們兩邊的通話呢因為到現在川普還在罵我們是晶片小偷所以我問一個很重要的問題如果141個軍隊他們要求要交換晶片產業的先進之稱我們會同意嗎台灣的製造能力跟領先地位跟全球的產量不會停下來等其他不是我們會同意嗎你根本沒有回答我的問題啊不是同不同意我們沒有能力留下來所以你不一定同意不一定不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
933.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
933.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
谢谢观看 |