| IVOD_ID |
168872 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168872 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第8次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第8次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-28T10:45:38+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-28T11:01:12+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:34 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/35437261a170eb0324576db9d492e16766e90e72df29f72fb7c213fc50a082c605516ffde792dc4e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:45:38 - 11:01:12 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第8次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院民進黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「一、立法院不分朝野堅定支持我國總統進行對外國是訪問，堅持台灣人有走向世界，與世界各國交往合作的權利。二、嚴正譴責中華人民共和國政府以脅迫手段迫使第三國撤銷我國元首專機飛航許可之粗暴行為，違反聯合國憲章、國際民航公約精神、外交關係慣例，並構成對第三國主權之公然干涉。三、促請外交部、駐外館處、國際民航組織（ICAO）之友我代表及所有可行管道，將本事件列入國際紀錄，且尋求國際民航組織、聯合國人權理事會等多邊機制之關注與因應，並就中華人民共和國對我國長期之脅迫行為，研擬完整之法律文件與政策白皮書，於年度外交報告中專章說明。四、呼籲世界上所有理念相近之民主夥伴，正視中華人民共和國對他國實施經濟與外交脅迫之行為，將其納入各國『反脅迫』（anti-coercion）之政策工具與立法檢討。並以具體行動聲援我國維護正當國際交往之權利，共同捍衛以規則為基礎之國際秩序、自由開放之國際航空體系，以及中小型國家免於威權霸凌之主權空間。中華民國是主權獨立的民主國家，任何外部勢力之脅迫、封鎖或打壓，皆不能改變我國走向世界、與民主夥伴並肩同行之決心。本院全體委員將超越黨派立場，團結一致，捍衛國家主權、民主自由與國際尊嚴。」是否有當？請公決案等2案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、同意權之行使事項：本院司法及法制、內政兩委員會報告審查「總統咨，為最高檢察署檢察總長邢泰釗任期於115年5月7日屆滿，茲依法院組織法第66條第2項規定，提名徐錫祥為最高檢察署檢察總長，咨請同意案」案。（5月5日上午）四、審計長列席報告中華民國113年度中央政府總決算審核報告等案審核經過並備諮詢。（5月5日下午）五、4月24日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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臺灣跟美國的關稅談判之前很辛苦達成很好的成績但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.014 |
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因為事情的演變,川普的對等關稅被美國的最高法院宣布說這是違憲現在衍生說我們要重談重談原因就是因為既然不能用對等關稅所以美國現在就是川普政府就都用301條款特別301條款調查進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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那你可以跟我們講說大概什麼時程我們台灣可以跟美國完成這個特別301條款調查之後確定雙方的關稅嗎時間性怎麼樣 |
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63.001 |
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美方在4月28號左右跟5月初5月5號會展開兩場的公聽會分別針對產能過剩以及強迫勞動那之後完成之後的一段時間應該一週內我們就會如果對我方有提出一些什麼樣的一些意見的話我們會據事實來價以說明那之後進行下去因為美方是對很多國家產生這樣的一個301的調查所以 |
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我們預判估計應該是到7月左右看能不能達到一個最終的一個結果第一個齁其實就商界來講他們很擔心的是不確定你一方面當然關稅高我們是很難過但是不確定也是另外一個問題你知道嗎因為 |
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109.124 |
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我舉個例子就有跟汽車業有關的業者就在講說大家都在等這個關稅什麼時候確定大家都在期待說美國的車主我來台灣可以進口關稅降低是不是可以買到便宜車所以使得今年的這個市場上這個車輛的購買目前就陷於比較遲緩的狀況是不是造成這個產業上面 |
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他們的困擾那你這樣有沒有可能可以早一點如果不涉及你剛剛講的那兩個所謂勞動的條件跟請消的問題這方面的問題 |
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哪一部分產業能夠快一點現在我們的最大的目的是希望時間能夠早一些來確定讓業者安心第二個我們更期待的是我們有沒有辦法確保到我們當初所談的ART的內容確認那個內容以及確保我們所得到的優惠待遇當初談判的那個內容我個人認為是對台灣很有利 |
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174.69 |
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如果能夠確保在這個301條款調查之後能夠確保的話那當然是非常好那你對這方面的信心度到哪裡因為我們當初爭取到15%而且不疊加讓我們的競爭力是得到一個相當好的一個支撐同時有我們對我們國家單獨豁免的項目正是我們最重要的一些產業那現在他 |
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196.591 |
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218.258 |
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這個IPA作廢之後使用122很多的品項是對全球都豁免了我們包括在內相反的有一些單獨對我們豁免的品項目前是沒有得到豁免所以我們還是認為回到ART的內容來講對我們國家的競爭力以及產業的保護應該是最完整而周到的所以朝這個方向來做那這個 |
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220.3 |
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這樣子的進行程度,我是覺得應該多讓國人了解就是說我們進行的,我們政府談判的這個方向,對台灣有利的部分在阿德的談判過程當中,如果我們有到美方去做實體的會談我們之前,之後,回來之後,我們都會向國人做一些清楚的交代 |
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241.531 |
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270.333 |
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但當中有很多的視訊會議或是公文來來往往就比較沒有辦法但是一旦有重大的突破我們第一個會向產業來做說明所以我們對產業會做很多關懷的這個座談會關懷之旅希望他們能夠做說明同時我們未來我們也希望跟國人做充分的說明因為你這樣做很好但是就在給我的感覺因為我比較注意這一方面的新聞因為我們是在財政委員會嘛就一直覺得這一方面的說明好像對社會的說明還不是很充足是不是可以加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
296.276 |
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好我會請談判團隊無論是副院長辦公室或是OTM或是經濟部能夠跟我們大院裡面的各委員或是委員會來進行做必要的說明那相關需要機密的部分我們再共同來維護院長我要跟你講一個概念有一個概念叫做租稅法定主義那原因是哪裡這是跟從英國的大革命開始跟英國革命有關 |
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297.52 |
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312.253 |
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因為古時候的國王王權很高他要跟諸侯征稅要跟人征稅他就拿了那後來因為打英法百年戰爭花費太大了後來諸侯受不了所以起來大革命那大革命之後最後就簽訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
313.579 |
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340.767 |
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過程最後就是簽訂這個大憲章最後就是我如果要徵稅要國會同意那在台灣在民主時代來了要徵稅要國會同意這個是第一個是法律保留原則稅一定是法律保留原則你所有要增加國民的負擔必須跟國民之間有一個間接的契約關係那這間接的契約關係就是國民選出的國會民意代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
341.363 |
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358.761 |
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能夠同意你要徵稅的這個法律通過這樣你才能徵稅那所以我們在租稅方面就叫做租稅法定主義啦那租稅法定主義衍生的一個結果就是你的稅能不能收全部都是要法律規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
360.319 |
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379.998 |
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但是倒過來講法律規定之後你的稅也不能不收啊我現在舉個例子你現在的消費稅是5%你也不能說我今天行政院覺得我錢夠了所以我不要收5%我收4%或是說我哪一個地方就把你免掉除非經過修法對 除非法律 我是說法律保留原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
381.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
402.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以現在有一個很錯誤的觀念大家都已經因循這個錯誤的觀念我要在這個地方提醒你稅沒有什麼超徵的問題因為它全部都是法律的規定法律規定你該徵你就得徵啊所以沒有超徵徵數超過預算數但是徵收到的實質數額超過這個去年在 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
410.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
在決定今年度預算時候的預算的收入數估計數那預算數是一個估計啊我舉個例子我今年覺得我今年應該要自己估計我今年應該要賺200萬台幣結果到了年底結算一下我居然賺到240萬可能是因為我的這個營業額增高了那我可不可以講說多賺40萬我就不要就退還 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
464.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以剛剛講的租稅法定主義 租稅保留原則就稅沒有什麼今天坦白講如果國家 如果我們的政府所以法律沒有規定的稅多收一塊錢 那個都是不可以的那所以我再跟你講一個基本的觀念這個我們已經溝通過很多次了沒有超徵這個概念我聽你的說法非常正確那是持徵數高於預算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
466.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
486.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那為什麼會預算數會做這個保守的估計呢這個第一個我們的台灣的公務人員就是在這一方面觀念是基本上是比較保守他希望能夠盡量能夠接近第二個他去年邊境年度的預算的時候他用的是前年的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
487.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
497.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你知道嗎用前年的資料來然後在去年的年中開始編列預算其實是去年的年初就開始編了然後要用在今年嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
497.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
526.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以這個訊息有落差兩年的這個問題然後他通常又不敢把那個GDP增長像去年我們增加了8點多的GDP那今年估計可能要增加7點多那這個數額是很大的但是他在編預算的時候他不敢這麼樂觀啊他都會想得比較保守啊所以那個預算數既然依照剛剛的觀念其實不會影響到實收的稅額 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
527.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
548.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以他就認為說孤寶守點也不要緊不過我昨天看到一個很擔憂的問題我們在野黨的同仁一個很偉大的發明說因為去年因為被他們這樣弄之後又普發了一萬塊還拿了一萬塊的新台幣在那邊說你看領錢多好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
550.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
577.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他覺得腸道的甜頭他覺得那個對於他在選舉上在罷免上對於選民的這個投票他們自認為是有影響所以他現在要把它入法化把錯誤的觀念入法化說以後啊我知道實收的預算實收的稅額比預算數高出15%以上的話他變成要把它入法說以後就是直接還稅於民這個也是錯誤的觀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
580.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
604.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
因為普發一萬塊錢連那個沒有繳稅的小朋友肚子裡的嬰兒都有啊那不是還稅於民嗎因為所謂還稅於民的概念是把已經徵收到稅款退還給繳稅的人啊如果這個是對的話那誰會退最多我認為各個法人台積電會退最多啦但事實上領到錢是自然人一個人領一萬塊嘛對不對那照理來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
606.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
610.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
行政權的核心就是經費預算跟人事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
611.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
639.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那他現在把你這個預算的部分這樣弄而且用錯誤的觀念一直延伸一直延伸一直往前這樣子無限的這樣推演這錯誤的觀念如何推如何能夠匡正觀念先正確如果我們的社會因為遇到疫情遇到什麼天然災害有需要的時候行政院認為我的預算足夠我的經費足夠我願意把這一部分的錢直接 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
640.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
668.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
給我們的國民這是可以的但是必須是行政院提出而不是立法院提出因為立法院憲法有規定不可以為增加預算室提案啊那不能為增加預算室提案那我立一個法強迫你把錢拿出來可以嗎因為真正要發給會的人是行政院嘛對不對所以我是覺得你們第一個他現在不經過委員會討論要直接進副二讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
669.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
695.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這些人不講道理其實我覺得他們也不是不懂他們在做政治操作是 委員的講法非常的正確去年我們也講過比如說如果時增數超過預算數會造成稅基剩餘所以剩餘的使用我們是有限制有規定的必須先還債等等它有一套規定的再來全國要做這麼大的公共的建設像現在已經有計畫來還沒核定的軌道建設超過6000億以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
696.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
717.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那如果錢都花給大家那這個公共建設重大的公共建設是無法來支應的況且還有很多的國防還有很多的社會福利我們每年要編足夠的預算在裡面那如果可以有時增數超過預算數的稅宜剩餘我們在往後就可以下一年度增加這個福利啦增加建設啦增加其他種種而不是這樣把它散出去但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
718.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
744.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
終究是來自人民努力跟產業努力的結果我們一定是把它放到對人民對產業有利的方向去這個前提不會錯而且這個預算會讓貧富懸殊的這個差距可以縮減我們會調節的作用你用這個普發一萬塊錢的這個對於這個貧富縮減的那個效益不大啦所以他當然有諸多的考量但是我現在在跟你講說我最後那一句話他們現在在做政治的操作啦為什麼因為11月28號選舉又來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
746.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
765.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以他們現在進夫惡毒希望行政院反對說你這個沒有道理然後希望民進黨黨團反對這個沒有道理不應該是這個樣子他們就可以出去跟選民訴求你看我們直接要給你們一萬塊錢啊我們要直接給你們錢啊是民進黨在反對民進黨在黨啊那我現在是要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
766.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
793.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們如果了解他背後的動機是這樣子的話你要有以待之啊你要怎麼處理呢這個是不是要經過好好的討論不然很容易因為一般的民眾不能夠了解那麼多他沒有辦法了解那麼多人家在野黨要國民黨跟民眾黨加起來要直接又要把多收的稅金要直接給我們結果行政院在反對那到時候你 你要怎麼辦所以這種政治操作又來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
794.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
823.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
以今年的預算來看我們也是因為去年這樣的處理我們今年舉債了將近三千億如果特別預算的話是超過四千億當國家把一筆錢用這樣的普發的方式出去之後我們要做公共建設等等就必須去舉債而來那對國家來講是得不償失啦對人民來講也許獲得了一部分的這種現金但是整個國家的基礎建設重大的發展是因而停滯的我們認為我們應該有必要有需要再強加說明這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
824.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
851.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好另外一點就是說他現在抓的點喔是你的時增數高於預算數超過15%嘛那然後另外一個角度就是你預算編列的時候你的稅數不要編得這麼的保守莊部長在身邊我跟他講過很多次了你要把未來的這兩年經濟成長率的這個增加值要估算在內而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
851.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
875.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們的台灣的公司台灣的全體人民這麼的努力使我們的企業賺大錢賺大錢之後將來鼓勵發給股東之後還會個人所得稅所以那個有遞減效應我是覺得我們財政部當然有這個能力只是大家不要太保守太保守就會產生的結果其實這個問題的來源很很長啦就是從那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
877.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
892.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
從那個什麼叫做稅改聯盟那稅改聯盟你就知道是什麼一回事嘛那其實是一個個案啊那個個案是因為他不願意繳稅他要把那個進施費當作你們當作這等於是補習班的交的補習費類似這樣要收稅結果他說這個是證據他全部都不要繳問題是從那邊來的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
896.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
914.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以一直錯誤的觀念一直被引導一直被引導我覺得財政部有義務要把這個做清楚的說明我們在稅收的估測上我們應該要更精進然後做更接近事實的一個估測我相信會比較好好我們大家一起加油好不好謝謝委員謝謝謝謝吳委員謝謝卓院長下一位請廖先祥委員質詢 |