| IVOD_ID |
168799 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168799 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-23T10:38:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-23T10:56:12+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0a6b12795be5442690d3b00b759198b6e07bf52eec0dd49d3cfaf5c3773194d8a3d5adc657703f85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊曜 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:38:16 - 10:56:12 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部、法務部就「脆弱家庭兒少支持服務及兒少保護個案處遇之跨體系協作與銜接機制檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【4月22日及23日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
6.156 |
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34.896 |
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謝謝主席 主席請問一下施部長有請施部長兩位人好 部長好部長任何法律的制定跟制度的設定其實再怎麼完美都不能讓人免於傷心就是都一定會有一些遺憾產生我想我們在委員會當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
40.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
不討論單一的個案我們來討論一個整體性的問題就是保護性的業務對於社工來講其實是支撐很大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
73.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
的作用啦我看我們社安網因為業務需求所以也持續在擴大可是禁用率來看呢2021年的禁用率是89.7% |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
95.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
去年是82.8%也就是說社安網本身一直有兩成左右的人力缺口沒有人你就支撐不了這個安全網 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
118.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
而且流動率也高最近因為單一的事件所以引發整體的社會氛圍我們還是必須要靠社工來支撐這個安全環境所以我們還是必須要做社工的後盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
127.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
144.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我想請問一下因為經用率持續下降所以除了完善薪資制度這個我們講過好幾次就是現在已經社工的薪資會隨著軍工教育調整這個跟部裡面肯定一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
145.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
159.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
包括他每年增加一千可能七年就停這個要不要延長這個可能你們也正在努力走我想薪資當然是讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
163.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
185.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
讓我們投入某個行業的其中一個重要因素而不是唯一的因素有沒有辦法有其他的方法可以讓讓有實務經驗的人願意留住還有沒有其他的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
208.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
當然跟委員說我們剛剛也提到,那麼科技的協助也是,讓他在分案或者是在管理個案的時候能夠更省工,程序也可以簡化。這個資訊系統的整合,讓他在個案的追蹤上也能夠更流暢,工作能夠簡化。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
209.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
236.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
最重要的有一些剛剛前一位廖委員也在提到的這些KPI應該要檢討合適就好避免這個我跟部長溝通一下就是我一開始就講了就是說法律跟制度的設定再怎麼完善都不能讓人免於傷心就是說在這個部分當社會壓力來的時候我們有沒有辦法去支撐 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
239.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
260.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
社工的心理狀態社工也是人他們的心理支持我們怎麼在制度上設計一套讓他們給他們力量的制度有沒有辦法這個很難我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
280.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我想我們過去也都有提供一些教育訓練,可能要把這個心理支持、心理健康的部分導入,然後我們也嘗試的去把一些部件一些資源來給予這些社工支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
282.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
310.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這可能也沒有辦法討論很多像最近其實大概我們收到很多社工想要離職甚至於有一些已經投入社工行列的社工直接告訴學弟妹不要進入這個行業這對整個國家社會來講是一個很大的傷害所以你們有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
311.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
337.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
或者是我直接要求你們這樣可能沒有辦法在這邊回答啦有沒有辦法做更明確的工作指引那當然我剛才也講再怎麼明確的工作指引還是沒有辦法避免憾事啦不過就是看能不能看怎麼從制度面來支持社工啦我覺得社工對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
338.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
357.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
對於社會的健全發展是很重要的一個環節那我們不支持他那誰來支持社會其實確實像委員提到的不論是這個工作指引或者是工作規範這個當然一方面這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
359.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
381.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個是一正兩面定的太細你就缺乏了彈性最後反而讓它容易被刻折啦你定的太鬆有時候那個模糊空間有那也會造成另外的問題所以這個怎麼去拿捏就像這個醫師開刀也是一樣你叫他每一個步驟都把它定出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
382.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
392.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那可能這個病人也會開始掉因為每個狀況是不一樣的所以有一個規範當然是好但是要定到什麼程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
393.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個是一刀兩刃所以我剛才也說了沒有要你在這邊回答不過核心的概念就是我覺得我們應該要給予社工更大的支持當作他們強烈的後盾要不然一直離職也不是辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
414.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
421.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好 部長請先回去聊聊今天剛好國教署來我跟國教署討論不然國教署謝謝副長請問請 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
434.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
451.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
副處長喔我大概想要問幾個問題第一個就是說校園安全的問題頻傳其中校園暴力的通報人數從2022年的3萬3提升到2024年6萬人次 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
460.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
468.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
然後其中師長跟師生間的衝突也從2018年每10萬人有47位到2023年每10萬人增加到 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
477.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
505.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
212位增加了4倍那當然造成學生行為偏差的原因跟學校校園暴力的原因都很多那我想要請教一下副署長當然我還是先替你講一下話就是教育本身跟教育行政還是不同的領域不過教育行政有的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
506.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
528.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
指導者的教育的方向所以還是要問你學校老師的管教權一再被限縮以後你覺得學校的老師現在主要的角色是什麼你懂我的意思嗎懂問題嗎那請回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
531.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
557.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
謝謝委員關心我們就是下案通報的有關一些衝突管教的事件人數增加這個問題對老師而言坦白說整個校園的環境還有就是說我們青少年兒少所面臨的社會環境的那個影響坦白說在校園的輔導管教裡面的確是 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
559.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
581.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
增加很多的挑戰那基本上我們也是很希望老師能夠體察到就是社會環境影響下我們兒少的一些他們的心理健康的狀況以及他的情緒以及他的學業的表現我現在問的問題是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
585.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
596.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
老師的管教權被限縮成這個樣子你覺得老師在校園裡面的角色或工作樣態是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
599.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
622.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
基本上老師他的管教權基本上我們還是都有一些輔導管教的一些原理原則你們有一個輔導管教學生辦法的注意事項那我舉這裡一個例子主席不好意思我把這題問完就是說學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
625.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
635.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個我剛才講的這個注意辦法裡面就有正向管教譬如說我舉一個例子就是學生可能在課堂上就是老師在講課他就講話嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
648.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
665.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你們這邊給老師的例示是這樣子就是跟這個學生講上課時在沒有舉手或被邀請發言時請你不要講話那這是第一次那這個學生講說第二次 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
667.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
681.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你再跟他講一次那第三次你可能可以這個都是你們的歷史想想看如果你很想聽課卻有同學不斷講話你會受到什麼影響這個我不評斷你們的歷史可是因為學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
696.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
721.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
每一個學生的觀念跟行為都不一樣所以這個學生一直講話老師就只能一直跟他好言相勸我簡單問一個問題會不會影響到其他學生的授教權 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
723.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
744.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我想應該多少會有影響那老師只能對這個學生一再的跟他重複講說這個是不對的因為你沒有舉手然後你去想其他的學生會受到影響這個學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
747.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
762.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
當下會有能力想嗎他可能回家或者是突然在幾個月以後心智成熟了他會想可是這一節課裡面他會想嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
768.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
793.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
基本上就是學生都是未成年嘛那我們都很期待老師還是用正向的語言正向管教的態度來對這些學生我現在就是在講說正向這個大家都支持可是管教權只剩下這樣子只剩下這樣子因為副主管要了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
795.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
817.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
學校是團體的是 團體生活不是 課堂也不是只有一對一的教學是那老師的管教權只剩下你們力士的這種模式其他學生的受教權會不會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
818.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
825.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
跟各位說明當然這個是歷史那我們很希望說老師盡量用正向的語言盡量 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
831.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
853.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
說盡量就是還有其他的方式嘛那他大概可以怎麼做?班級經營的策略能不能發展?比如說他可以有分組嘛那分組的話其實他也有一些小的幹部班級的幹部可以協助維持一些秩序啊等等的那如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
854.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
864.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
老師維持不了 其他的幹部維持不了有的時候同儕協助是可以的 反而是可以的有時候一些小幫手 或是小組長都不少長我並不想在這裡為難你啦因為這個問題確實是值得教育行政也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
876.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
889.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
家長也好社會大眾也好大家都要思考一下就是說讓老師的管教權限縮到極致到底對於整體教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
891.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
915.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
是好的還是會有很多更大的問題產生就像我剛才講的班級上並不是只有一個學生其他學生的受教權怎麼保障或者說學生的管教權過於限縮會不會讓老師的熱情也限縮了 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
920.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
927.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這個我想你在這裡沒有辦法回答不過你們回去真的要好好思考最後一個問題最後一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
933.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
952.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所以說教育部去年已經宣布提高導師的假期、行政假期跟終點費,終點費提高了百分之二十對,二十五那終點費調整的部分僅限於第一節到第七節,沒有包括第八節 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
954.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
975.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那第八節呢有一種課程叫做學習輔助受輔助的對象其實他是國英數三個科目沒有通過篩選測驗的可是呢你們調的是一到七節第八節這個反而沒有所以現在變成第一到七節正常的上班時間的終點費比 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
979.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
995.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
學習輔助的課後輔導的重點會高這個你們回去趕快做調整這個部分我們也在陸續的研議有一些如果是屬於有一些是家長必須要分擔的我們現在不討論那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
998.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1016.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我現在討論的是學習輔助的這一個部分這個部分是家長免付費是為了要讓學生趕上進度的那你一到七節的中年費高於這個會影響老師投入的熱情好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1018.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1024.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
而且也顯然不公平啦其實人家運動部就比你們快一點運動部已經把第八節的 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1033.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1043.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
就是運動成績優秀學生的學習輔助計畫它已經提高到540元那你們現在是450元 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1051.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1076.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個差距趕快把它拉起來我們會研議好不好那有關我剛剛講的老師的管教權的範圍我覺得真的大家都要再重新思考一下好不好好 這個部分我們再來研究好 謝謝主席好 謝謝謝謝楊耀遠發言我們現在休息十分鐘 |