| IVOD_ID |
168615 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168615 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-19-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-16T10:09:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-16T10:18:11+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5c6c6faabdac9c28b55019e0ab18c32c24d82c1ebe87fe24f52e0125f93f25670c81ff874c24f3695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪毓祥 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:09:01 - 10:18:11 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長、國家發展委員會主任委員及農業部部長就「我國再生能源及電網韌性之發展現況、建置進度、容量目標、推動困境、法規障礙及相關改善對策」進行報告，並備質詢。
【4月15日及4月16日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席好 我們有請經濟部跟國發會經濟部 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
46.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
69.547 |
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我是覺得說現在的話從過去的歷史我們105年開始這些太陽光電一直到111年2050的淨零排放的這樣的一個路徑那其實當時我們都說這個發電這個光電是20GW再生能源的比例要佔20%可是都一路一路跳票 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
70.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
89.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
然後到115年台電能源署的最新統計的話光電是15.47GW整個再生的話是22.87GW那基本上實際大概13.1%的一個占比所以其實你自己往下調從20%調到15%的再生能源占比到現在13.1% |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
93.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
99.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
然後你現在我看到你們的報告國發會這邊2030年的目標47.222032 50.99我就覺得這個就是一個無限輪迴剛剛前面謝委員也問了啊目標定了啊再來答不到怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
113.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
137.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這個比例是不是一個好的目標事實上我們要來檢討因為它分子跟分母都一直在變分母現在是國發會寫的國發會寫2030年再生能源再比30%所以我們現在的目標都是再生能源它的裝置容量多少我們就盡力給它達到比如說它裝置容量要達到比如說離岸風電要達到10.9個GWh那我們盡量把它做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
138.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
153.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
沒關係啦 我只是說我沒有什麼信心啦所以我們就務實一點啦那因為我看到國發會寫20%就大不了了 然後2030那你也很擔心別人死2030那個不知道你在哪裡啊所以我國發會寫的那個東西可能要跟經濟部再好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
154.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
168.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
對不對行政院這邊或經濟部我們這個部會再檢討一下但我們民眾是沒什麼信心然後我記得我們在核二核三重啟的質詢的時候也說過因為如果這個核電重啟最快現在是多久預計我記得是2028嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
170.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
198.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
如果一切順利啦如果一切順利所以我們是先重啟核三嘛然後再來就是核二嘛所以核二應該在2028再之後嘛對不對好所以那時候我們就說了是不是整個這些能源的占比的比再重新好好思考一下規劃不然你這個東西國發會寫出來的報告都我不會寫這樣啦我的感覺是這樣就是讓我沒有信心好再來有一個也是讓我覺得很沒有信心的是這一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
199.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
209.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
光電這個就算了 離岸風電這個增加1.1倍 增加2.8倍我看那個地熱發電到了2065年7MW 2030年寫1.2GW的目標 這增加200倍對 現在是改成200MW改了喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
221.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
248.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你的報告又沒改了我的報告啦經濟部的已經有改了有改了所以這個務實一點嘛我想說看這個數字我就覺得很奇怪對不對好這個有錯能改很棒那國發會也順便改一下這個報告你們兩個部位我每次常常覺得國發會到底是怎樣這個各部會收集的資料如果是最新的那是不是應該也是update一下好不好不然這個讓我覺得哇嚇死人 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
251.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
274.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
再來我為什麼還要想要再看一件事情的就是說這個我們的再生能源過去很多的一個弊案包含聯合再生當然國發也答應要試股但那個比例當然還是少那聯合再生來講的話我們來看它綠色的連帶是161億五家公股的行庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
275.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
296.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
誠信這個是佔政府一定共生的目標35%最具指標性案子三家公股航空綠色連帶是120億台尼的加簽在嘉義的案場這個問題也是很大假示範真廢照也就是說他基本上這些他跟誠信一樣台尼加簽也是養不出魚 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
298.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
305.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
然後再來是永興因為他背後的股東是美國貝萊德投資公司那他在家園的這個漁電共生的案場這個更誇張 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
308.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
332.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
沒有這個農業的這個容許許可然後就已經發電併網這個是那時候我在3月30號講的就給我先發電沒有再養魚然後呢 匱限接進去之後我想問齁這個在我們整個的流程裡頭不曉得部長知不知道我們整個漁電共生這個申請的流程會是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
355.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
包委員他裝置好以後他養魚的部分是要可以我簡單講第一段就是前期規劃土地取得第二階段農業部是要給他農業的農許的許可再來取得農許許可之後能源署你才可以備案跟施工的許可其中很重要就是農業農許許可才能備案嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
356.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
377.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
再來的話他現在跟台電溝通並聯簽署構定合約也就是說他必須要滿足農業的容許許可之後才能夠發電去並聯然後台電才可以付錢這段流程沒有問題那上次我在3月30號跟招資委員共同開的這個有請農業部部長農業部部長就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
382.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
386.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
當時我問了漁業署的話對不對你們跟能源署然後這樣子的漁歸漁電歸電 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
389.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
416.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
被我抨擊 環團也一直在抨擊後來3月31號你們也知錯能改說絕對不會 對不對我們還是餘電貢獻您所說的漁歸漁跟電歸電也是在我們現在的政策是完全沒變的情況之下只是讓我們的案場在規劃設計的時候就能夠依照我們這個我清楚 你們的那個說法很不好啦我是一個IBM的主包商或是與我們講的例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
433.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那我拿到標案之後我發給A包B包那請問誰要負最大責任如果A包B包做不出來還是主包商的責任嘛所以這跟魚龜魚店龜店沒關係我店場當然可以找專業養殖戶來做這沒有問題但是要負最大的責任叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
435.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
453.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
發電廠然後農業部要站穩的力量是保護漁民這個是我一直在強調那你們也很好也就是從來就不再講了很棒啊我是肯定的喔農業部與漁業署要站在當漁民的角度可是當時我問了一個問題根據剛剛的流程來講審計部調查了完工併網數呢393件嘛查核件數的話122查核通過數37代費只留69農業部自己找的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
465.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
486.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
是276件裡頭你去查了174件廢止了35件改善57件基本上總共廢止加待改善是92件其實超過你查核數的一半所以有些是以上是Burger那我那天有問能源署的說當他農業農取許可被廢止之後能源署的態度是廢照 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
488.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
500.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
對不對 甚至你台電的那些賭博費都不行可是經濟部能源署給我送出來的查額件數第62件只有一件招費紙這樣的數字到底能源署 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
502.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
524.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
清不清楚 為什麼農業部已經廢止了35件 那你們的這個廢止發電的許可為什麼才只有一件委員好 因為我們這個農業農許的部分是地方政府核發的 那大小個別有異那現在在內營登記是大型的電業的部分在經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
526.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
547.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
經濟部美元署只廢止了一件那其他那些小型都在地方政府登記他地方農業單位廢止以後他就會送到地方的經發單位去處理後續的事情好 補充你再把報告給我 因為你的報告我都還沒看到但我是覺得不要讓他們說是用真的種電然後不養魚然後再去騙台電付錢好不好 第一步再把報告給公務員好 謝謝 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-04-16T10:09:25.135000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-04-16T10:09:25.435000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
主席好。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-04-16T10:09:25.775000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-04-16T10:09:25.915000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
有請經濟部和國發會。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-04-16T10:09:25.915000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-04-16T10:09:26.076000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
請經濟部龔部長、國發會詹副主委。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0.429 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
龔部長明鑫 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-04-16T10:09:26.076000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-04-16T10:09:47.601000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
洪委員早。早。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-04-16T10:09:47.601000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-04-16T10:10:10.527000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
根據你們的報告以及我們查的一些資料，從過去的歷史來看，從105年的太陽光電一直到111年2050淨零排放路徑，當時我們都說光電的發電是20GW，再生能源比例要占20%，可是都一路跳票！ |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.681 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-04-16T10:10:12.676000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-04-16T10:10:30.233000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
依據115年台電、能源署最新統計，光電是15.47GW，整個再生能源是22.87GW，基本上，實際占比大概13.1%，其實你們自己也往下調，再生能源占比從20%調到15%，現在是13.1%。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.785 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-04-16T10:10:34.837000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-04-16T10:10:40.219000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
我看了你們的報告，國發會2030年的目標是47.22GW，2032年是51.99G，我覺得這個就是一個無限輪迴，剛剛前面謝委員也問了，目標訂了，達不到怎麼辦？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.839 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
龔部長明鑫 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-04-16T10:10:54.990000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-04-16T10:11:02.614000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
報告委員，這個比例是不是一個好的目標，事實上我們要檢討，因為它的分子、分母都一直在變，且分母現在變得非常快…… |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.771 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-04-16T10:11:03.314000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-04-16T10:11:06.756000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
這是國發會寫的，國發會寫2030年再生能源占比30%。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
龔部長明鑫 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-04-16T10:11:06.756000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-04-16T10:11:12.619000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
所以我們現在的目標都是再生能源的裝置容量多少，我們就盡力給它達到。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
龔部長明鑫 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-04-16T10:11:13.220000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-04-16T10:11:18.623000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
比如離岸風電的裝置容量要達到10.9GW，我們盡量把它做到。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-04-16T10:11:19.325000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-04-16T10:11:30.317000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
沒關係，我只是說我沒有什麼信心，所以我們就務實一點，因為我看到國發會寫20%就到不了了，2030年要達到30%，這樣不是「咒誓予別人死」？ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.755 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-04-16T10:11:30.698000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-04-16T10:11:40.365000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
2030年你都不知道在哪裡了，所以國發會寫的那個東西可能要跟行政院或經濟部這邊好好檢討一下，因為我們民眾是沒什麼信心。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.827 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-04-16T10:11:41.046000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-04-16T10:11:47.869000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
我記得我們在核二、核三重啟的質詢時也說過，核電重啟預計最快是多久？ |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.933 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-04-16T10:11:48.449000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-04-16T10:11:49.049000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
我記得是2028年，如果一切順利的話，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.438 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
龔部長明鑫 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-04-16T10:11:51.383000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-04-16T10:11:52.083000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
如果一切順利。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-04-16T10:11:53.684000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-04-16T10:12:00.405000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
我們是先重啟核三，再來是核二，所以核二應該在2028年之後，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.962 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-04-16T10:12:00.985000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-04-16T10:12:06.726000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
那時候我們就說了，是不是整個能源占比再重新好好思考、規劃？ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-04-16T10:12:06.726000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-04-16T10:12:13.908000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
不然國發會寫出來的報告都亂寫，我的感覺是這樣，讓我沒有信心。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-04-16T10:12:15.108000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-04-16T10:12:28.645000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
再來，有一個也是讓我覺得很沒有信心的是，光電也就算了，離岸風電要增加1.1倍、增加2.8倍，我看到地熱發電2025年是7MW，2030年的目標是1.2GW，是增加200倍。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.85 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
龔部長明鑫 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-04-16T10:12:28.805000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-04-16T10:12:30.586000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
現在是改成200MW。改了？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-04-16T10:12:42.796000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-04-16T10:12:43.957000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
你的報告也沒有改。 |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
龔部長明鑫 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-04-16T10:12:44.678000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-04-16T10:12:48.040000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
我的報告我們經濟部的報告已經改了。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-04-16T10:12:48.500000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-04-16T10:12:48.901000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
有改了？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
龔部長明鑫 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-04-16T10:12:48.901000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-04-16T10:12:49.901000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
對，務實。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-04-16T10:12:49.741000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-04-16T10:12:51.142000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
所以務實一點。 |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-04-16T10:12:51.282000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-04-16T10:12:58.387000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
我看到這個數字覺得很奇怪，有錯能改，很棒，國發會也順便改一下報告。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-04-16T10:13:00.449000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-04-16T10:13:04.372000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
我常常覺得國發會到底是怎樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-04-16T10:13:04.372000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-04-16T10:13:08.415000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
各部會蒐集的資料如果是最新的，是不是應該也要update一下？ |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.931 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-04-16T10:13:09.135000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-04-16T10:13:09.716000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
不然讓我覺得嚇死人了。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-04-16T10:13:12.161000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-04-16T10:13:27.851000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
再來，我為什麼還想要再看一件事情，再生能源過去有很多弊案，包含聯合再生，當然國發會也答應要釋股，但是那個比例還是少。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-04-16T10:13:29.192000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-04-16T10:13:35.375000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
以聯合再生來看，它的綠色聯貸是161億、5家公股行庫。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-04-16T10:13:36.955000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-04-16T10:13:57.621000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
誠新占政府漁電共生目標35%，是最具指標性案子，3家公股行庫綠色聯貸120億，台泥嘉謙在嘉義案場的問題也是很大，假示範、真廢照，基本上它跟誠新一樣，台泥嘉謙也是養不出魚。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.718 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-04-16T10:13:59.477000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-04-16T10:14:12.582000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
再來是永鑫，它背後的股東是美國貝萊德投資公司，它在嘉原的漁電共生案場更誇張，沒有農業容許許可就已經發電併網。 |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-04-16T10:14:12.582000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-04-16T10:14:33.446000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
這個是我在3月30日講的，它已經先發電，沒有在養魚，饋線接進去之後……我想問在整個流程中，不曉得部長知不知道漁電共生申請流程是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
龔部長明鑫 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-04-16T10:14:35.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-04-16T10:14:39.718000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
報告委員，裝置好以後，養魚的部分是可以先蓋好再養魚。 |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.652 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-04-16T10:14:40.158000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-04-16T10:14:56.511000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
我簡單講，第一階段是前期規劃土地取得；第二階段是農業部要給它農業容許許可；再來，取得容許許可之後，能源署才可以有備案跟施工許可，其中很重要的就是有農業容許許可才能備案。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.883 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-04-16T10:14:58.360000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-04-16T10:15:12.587000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
接著他要跟台電溝通、併聯，簽署購電合約，也就是他必須要滿足農業的容許許可之後，才能夠發電去併聯，台電才可以付錢，這一段流程沒有問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.831 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-04-16T10:15:12.767000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-04-16T10:15:18.050000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
上次我在3月30號跟陳昭姿委員共同開的……有請農業部部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.87 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-04-16T10:15:18.050000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-04-16T10:15:18.530000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
請農業部部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-04-16T10:15:23.255000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-04-16T10:15:37.786000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
當時我問了漁業署跟能源署，這樣的「漁歸漁、電歸電」被我抨擊，環團也一直在抨擊，後來3月31號，你們也知錯能改說絕對不會，還是漁電共生，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.897 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-04-16T10:15:39.627000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-04-16T10:15:51.871000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
跟委員報告，您所說的「漁歸漁、電歸電」，也是在我們現在政策完全沒變的情況之下，只是讓案場在規劃設計的時候，就能夠依照我們漁業…… |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.873 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-04-16T10:15:51.871000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-04-16T10:15:54.092000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
好，這個我清楚，你們那個說法很不好。 |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.933 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-04-16T10:15:54.972000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-04-16T10:16:03.037000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
舉一個例子，我是一個IBM的主包商，我拿到標案之後，我發給A包、B包，請問誰要負最大責任？ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.872 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-04-16T10:16:03.137000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-04-16T10:16:06.259000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
如果A包、B包做不出來，還是主包商的責任嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-04-16T10:16:06.700000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-04-16T10:16:22.651000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
所以這跟「漁歸漁、電歸電」沒關係，電廠當然可以找專業養殖戶來做，這沒有問題，但是要負最大責任的叫作發電廠，至於農業部要站穩的力量是保護漁民，這是我一直在強調的。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.817 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-04-16T10:16:22.812000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-04-16T10:16:29.256000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
你們也很好，後來也就不再講了，很棒，我是肯定的，農業部漁業署要站在幫漁民的角度。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.914 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-04-16T10:16:29.676000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-04-16T10:16:58.997000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
可是當時我問了一個問題，根據剛剛的流程來講，審計部調查完工併網數393件、查核件數122件、查核通過數37件、待廢止的69件；農業部自己找的是276件裡頭，去查核174件、廢止35件、改善57件，總共廢止加待改善的是92件，所以你查核數超過一半以上是不合格的。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.823 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-04-16T10:17:00.518000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-04-16T10:17:10.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
那天我有問能源署，當農業容許許可被廢止之後，能源署的態度是廢照，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.906 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-04-16T10:17:10.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-04-16T10:17:12.622000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
甚至台電的躉購費率都不行。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-04-16T10:17:13.082000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-04-16T10:17:23.533000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
可是經濟部能源署送出來的查核件數62件，只有1件遭廢止，這樣的數字到底能源署清不清楚？ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.892 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-04-16T10:17:23.933000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-04-16T10:17:30.015000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
為什麼農業部已經廢止35件，你們廢止發電的許可為什麼才只有1件？ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
龔部長明鑫 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-04-16T10:17:30.015000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-04-16T10:17:32.375500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
我請署長說明一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.125 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-04-16T10:17:32.375500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-04-16T10:17:34.736000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
請簡要說明一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
吳代理署長志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-04-16T10:17:34.736000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-04-16T10:17:35.017000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
吳代理署長志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-04-16T10:17:35.377000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-04-16T10:17:41.939000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
因為農業農許的部分是由地方政府核發，大小個別有異。 |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
吳代理署長志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-04-16T10:17:42.959000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-04-16T10:17:56.466000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
現在再生能源登記是大型電業的部分在經濟部，所以經濟部能源署只廢止了1件，其他那些小型的在地方政府登記，在地方農業單位廢止以後，就會送到地方的經發單位去處理後續的事情，以上補充。 |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.852 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2026-04-16T10:17:56.666000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2026-04-16T10:18:07.152000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
你再把報告給我，因為你的報告我都還沒看到，但我是覺得不要讓他們真的用種電、不養魚，再去騙台電付錢，好不好？謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.918 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2026-04-16T10:18:07.772000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2026-04-16T10:18:08.312000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
經濟部再把報告給洪委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.545 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2026-04-16T10:18:08.812000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2026-04-16T10:18:12.240571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
謝謝洪毓祥委員，部長先回座。 |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.167 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2026-04-16T10:18:12.540571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2026-04-16T10:18:15.683429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
下一位質詢請呂玉玲委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0 |