| IVOD_ID |
168545 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168545 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-15T10:13:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-15T10:26:29+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:37 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ec77822e2e6eae362cee80df76bb2fecf00c58ee6be6f7a25bca6d85ad377ffdb33f131730d363f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
莊瑞雄 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:13:52 - 10:26:29 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請監察院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝昭偉 有請我們監察院黃秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
15.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 請黃秘書長秘書長好有幾個問題我想來就教監察院你現在來看的話是很尷尬的一個機關不管是立法院或者是外界其實很多人也認為說監察院一個國家裡面的一個制度何去何從該把監察院把它給廢掉大家覺得是一個盲腸的一個機關就這些話聽在秘書長你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
73.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
你會不會覺得有點感觸我沒有感觸我只是覺得監察權絕對要繼續進行下去只是說他過去大家在討論的議題應該是說這個權利應該獨立成一個監察院還是回歸到立法院其實世界各國只要是三權分立大部分的監察權是附屬在立法院也就是說委員您質詢完之後發現有重大的問題以後進行調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
91.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
甚至可以提出相關例如彈劾等等的懲戒然後再送到懲戒法院去進行司法的訴訟如果有失職或是違法的公務人員予以免職、停職、降級、減俸等相關的懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
96.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
116.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這個是應該一整套的配套秘書長你提的是另外一個層次的問題但是本席在問的就是說其實在國會裡面各個政黨其實都是主張把監察院給廢掉可是大家的看法怎麼樣去廢那大家的看法有所不同民主進步黨我相信連秘書長你過去的一個主張也認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
117.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
132.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那就修憲嘛 就來修憲我們當然是尊重 完全尊重修憲的結論那當然 完全尊重所以廢監察院的進度裡面可是你現在又碰到一個問題 就尷尬了監察院現在29個嘛 第六屆好像是不足 現在是26 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
135.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
159.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
二十五,法定是二十九嘛,那你現在二十五位那第六屆就到今年的七月底就結束了,就全部都離任了接下來全部的人又要另一波新的提名嘛那如果假設總統來提名,那你這個國民黨主張他就認為這個全部都不要,人就不用再補了 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
179.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那台灣民眾黨他們立場也很清楚各個政黨其實都很清楚但主張會有所不同那結果好來了會產生一個狀況監察院這一屆7月31號全部結束以後你說5月份開始提名那送到立法院來那以現在的政治局勢來看的話通殺啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
180.137 |
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187.979 |
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就是還不會過關啦那不會過關問題來了你去把他看我為什麼說你們尷尬立法院就把你預算全部砍光光說那監察院那盲腸那不好那吃尿病聽起來我意思說你這樣會有一個感觸但是你去把他看這個在野黨其實把預算砍光光說是一個盲腸機關轉過頭來你看他又跑到你們那邊去說這個卓院長喔卓榮泰不附屬喔已請監察院來彈劾又很看重你們了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
208.664 |
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220 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
老百姓其實我一直認為監察院還是一個老百姓深淵的一個地方還是有這樣的一個功能可是碰到國內在政治鬥爭的時候監察院你就變成尚方寶劍如果要去背革的孫子 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
226.988 |
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253.996 |
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所以我是覺得說這個感觸我是指這一方面但是司法院大法官的一個釋字的632號的一個解釋裡面也確實確保整個監察院的實質的一個存續跟正常的一個運行他認為是憲法憲政機關責無旁貸的一個職責除非你去走修憲的一個路可是我有幾個問題要請教就是說如果現在都沒有任何配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
254.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
258.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
把它廢掉了以後 實質上讓它停擺啦都不會通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
260.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
281.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那個停擺造成的損害 秘書長你有要向社會做一個說明嗎譬如說 我很擔心就是你這個國家人權委員會那你也是在監察院現在的一個所在那如果說監委沒有辦法繼續來順利的一個任命的話那你現在對我國所推動的各項的人權調查國際人權公約這樣的衝擊會有什麼樣的一個打擊 請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
287.556 |
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305.237 |
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如果依照現在比如說委員不通過或是類似像預算三零這反而是一種廢監察權我們剛才一直在講到說外界說要廢監察院可是你如果沒有委員沒有預算是不是真正的權利的行使反而就不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
305.817 |
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325.639 |
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那不見的情況之下他傷害的反而是我們要協助的人民我們一屆有十萬個陳情這十萬個陳情需要監察院來替他們找出行政機關的問題甚至有些是弊案來解決問題懲罰這些公務人員也就是說整次關針 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
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350.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
有些在國家人權委員會他有許多人權上面要去維護的地方因為沒有錢沒有委員反而任何的行政處分我們都不能進行在這種情況之下反而是廢了監察權他不是廢院沒有錯但是廢了權讓整個權都沒有辦法執行的時候反而不是人民的福氣沒有人當然就沒辦法來行使這樣的一個執權這是一定的可是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
357.14 |
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也有一些問題啊 監察院自己本身啊你有沒有覺得看錯地方了你像譬如說啊 公視 針對第五屆跟第七屆公視董事的延宕監察院應該兩天去跟他們糾正文化部啊 對吧文化部也是我要理你啊 問題到現在也沒有真正解決啊上個禮拜四你看那個董監 董監事的這個審查委員會的八名審查委員現在人家聯名跟立法院院長韓國瑜說我們請辭喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
384.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
404.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你去把它看這種情況嘛你看從第五屆的董事由第四屆延任長達968天第七屆董事第六屆延任也高霸歸綱審查委員的消極資格條件同意權門檻的計算方式是否採記名投票是否可以委託代理審查委員有誰來召開是立法院還是文化部 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
405.658 |
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421.909 |
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這都長期失靈了,你去跟他說,他也不會理你,你給他糾正喔,所以說監察院對這種以糾正,他不甩你沒有去改善的機關,現在大家在跟你們說,你給他糾正也不好,你們有補嗎?還是你們只能顛倒為止而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
426.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
440.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
其實我們這兩個兩次的這個所謂的那個任命的狀況我們都有糾正案那糾正案甚至到現在我們都還是在追蹤行政機關要切實的改善這問題那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
442.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
466.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
是不是法治相關的問題就必須要行政機關他來面對讓這個問題能夠解決包括我們監察院現在假設沒有權沒有人沒有委員的時候當然也會產生類似的狀況所以我們也期待在未來在監察職權的行使上面能夠讓我們能夠為著針對人民的需要來進行監察權的行使 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
466.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
493.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個都不忍苛責啦 因為以現在的政治氣氛來看的話監察院並不是一個強勢的一個機關啦所以啊 就像秘書長所講的整個監察權的一個形式啊 就會產生這麼大的一個落差我現在 以前的監察院就不是這樣咧以前的監察院你真的殺他 嚇嚇他 打他 把他撲下去所以你把他撲下去之後 不會理你我再舉一個例子啊 你跟台大 拆文資法 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
496.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
513.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個起源地,我們監察院的調查的一個作為,你看看過去三年喔,因為都更改革開發的推進,溫州街那個地方啊,我看很多台大老師都住那個地方,五十二巷,日式公寓,那個宿舍啊,反覆的一再上演,叫一間又聽一間,這種抗爭的行動啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
516.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
539.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那我們眼睜睜的去看著兩位對台灣學術跟文資界有奠基貢獻的領袖文資法之父 大家講的就是成吉祿跟台灣島史觀海洋性格提出的提出者曹永和兩個人在溫州街的故居啊 你看這照片喔2024年跟2025年相繼被宣告不具文資價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
540.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
559.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在四個月內火速拆除引起文史團體的不滿那也促使監察院去決議調查釐清我是覺得這個都非常諷刺就是說這個對台灣文化歷史記憶的一個刪除然後也意味著對文資保存意識的一個退步那 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
560.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
586.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個都是過去文資的一個推動者他本席的意思就是說如果任由這種具備高度歷史精神指標的建物被系統性的拆除那你怎麼去面對過去在艱難環境下保護台灣文化的這些前輩我為什麼會提出這樣的一個問題就是說監察院針對此案我覺得可以更強力的一個作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
588.328 |
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605.967 |
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老闆你看台大,不知道要怎麼去批評,你知道嗎?台大現在校方坐擁369棟50年以上的建物,其中具備文資身份者68棟,位具文資身份者301棟。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
607.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
625.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個你們也跟我說你們責任保存的責任重大你們現在都消極維護積極去拆除你們跟他下這個很好玩你們跟他說他們都是消極維護但是很積極在拆除那也就是說台大他本身的想法就很簡單我都沒有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
627.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
648.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
檢查案你跟他說有啦 你有兩百個校務基金啦但是他投入這些錢 投入文資的維護的經費這百分之零點三 這你如果講得很清楚但重點就是說 本席的看法就是說校方還是一樣把檢查案看衰無視檢查案調查意見 甚至以安全為由火速拆除 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
649.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
659.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這種有歷史文化意義的故居實在都是應該好好去檢討的一個必要監察院後續你們還有什麼手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
661.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
686.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
因為您提到的這個案子還在整個調查中還在整個追蹤中所以還沒有結案在沒有結案的時候因為秘書長在這邊依照法令的限制我們沒辦法針對還沒有結案的個案來跟您做說明但是我們監察院的委員以及進行調查的協查的同仁一定會基於公平正義的原則把這個案子好好辦下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
688.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
715.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這就是在說一個社會到底是否願意為整個記憶來承擔成本那其實文化保存最常被誤解的地方就是它常常說好像是這一些保存者就看中這些文化資產的人是反對改變那但是真正的保存它倒不是拒絕未來而是拒絕只有一種的未來所以文化保存 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
716.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
743.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
太重要了 本席提這個只有一個一個關鍵就是認為說監察院其實喔 雖然現在得到人質同意權得到日本人給你們看衰 得到國政黨給你們看衰但是就像秘書長你所講的你這個監察權的一個行使裡面喔該去把它發揮到對強度喔尤其是公視這 尤其是台大這喔你若沒有一個比較強勢的作為喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
744.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
755.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你談這個監察權慢慢不是只有消滅在這段期間裡面呢你會發現你毫無作為是對不起這個社會的喔好不好是 謝謝委員長好 謝謝 |