| IVOD_ID |
168532 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168532 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-15T09:49:22+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-15T10:03:04+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:42 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ec77822e2e6eae301251cd9848e2bf8cf00c58ee6be6f7a25bca6d85ad377ffc9a64353dbdea2ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林沛祥 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:49:22 - 10:03:04 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請監察院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝謝主席有請黃秘書長有請黃秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
30.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
今天本席想用一個法學上很嚴肅但是其實很生活化的問題來開場當一個機關人民不相信他的時候權力還剩下多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
32.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
57.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
監察院身為我們國家最高的監察機關依照憲政設計負責糾舉彈劾違法失職的公務員並保障人民的權益這些職權在制度裡面都寫得很漂亮但是我想請問一個最根本的問題請問黃秘書長是否認同監察權最重要的基礎不是權力本身而是人民的信任當然 我認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
59.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
80.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
因為其實這不是哲學問題這是一個憲法實踐的問題沒有信任再完整的制度也只是紙上談兵那接下來我想問第二個問題而且可能會稍微比較務實比較尖銳一點監察院我們認證是一個事實就是為什麼現在社會對監察院的信任正在快速的流失呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
82.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
102.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這個部分我跟委員有不同的意見就是所謂的信證的流失我們從我們的監察院的陳情數字來看事實上去年大概也是八萬兩千多件的數字一整屆卻不是去年上一屆第五屆但目前為止本院人民的陳情的案件已經高達八萬六千多件預計 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
104.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
122.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這一屆截止的時候會飆到十萬件也就是說人民對監察院還是有所期待的等一下我們會談到說監察院這方面有關建樹的問題但是老實說現在目前社會的觀感上面很直接該查的不查不該查最查的很勤 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
123.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
139.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這句話雖然不中聽但是如果我們不去面對它就會一直存在講更白話一點這其實就是一個法律的問題檢察院有沒有選擇性行使監察權的疑慮舉一個具體的案例來請教好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
139.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
161.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我記得如果沒有錯的話應該是前年的4月24號吧針對侯友宜市長35年前的舊案羅易事案重新被啟動調查甚至要求本人到監察院說明那我也想從最基本的法律結構上面來說起第一侯市長在當年的案件中是不是專案負責人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
162.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
183.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
第二他是不是這個案件裡面的決策者呢如果兩者皆非那麼請問他在法律他在案中的法律地位是什麼是違法失職的行為人還是僅僅是關係人委員這個這畢竟是個案我是不是請我們施議委員會的主任秘書來跟我們說明目前這個案子過了剛好快兩年那這個其實也蠻明確的如果只是關係人 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
191.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
211.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那監察院動用調查權要求到場說明秘書長還有各位監察院所有的同仁們我們都知道公務人員四大法則合法 合理 必要 比例原則那我就想請問這個案子請侯友宜市長到監察院說明請問他的必要性跟比例原則在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
213.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
231.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我是不是請市議委員會的主秘來回答委員的問題讓我繼續講完好了 因為這個案子我那時候看的時候覺得有點 身為立法委員覺得有點匪夷所思那跟你插嘴不好意思那更有就是 檢察委員曾經表示 這個調查不追究個人責任 只是為了還原事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
233.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
249.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
聽到這句話我本席身為一個國會議員其實我蠻困惑的因為我要請教的是監察院現在的法定職權到底是彈劾違法失職還是負責還原歷史那如果說後者我們要把監察院考慮成為歷史研究院 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
253.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
281.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那更關鍵的是在事實認定上面憲政分工上面本來就是所謂司法院所屬的司法權核心那我必須在這邊請教秘書長跟我們監察院的長官監察院在這種進行這類不為彈劾只為還原的調查時是否已經在邊界上跟司法權產生衝疊我們這個先就個案跟您說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
283.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
290.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
報告委員,這個案子是羅易市向本院提出陳情,羅易市是加拿大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
291.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
311.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
台籍人士他針對當時入出國移民法的時候他遭到非法的逮捕的一個案子那其中呢他指稱侯友宜當時作為中山分局的刑事組組長是有問題所以呢在程序上我們那我想請問還是回到剛剛問題請問侯友宜是這個專案的負責人嗎請問侯友宜是當時的決策者嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
314.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
336.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
當初針對羅毅士先生的逮捕是侯友宜一手去設法規辦的嗎如果不是那他是關係人吧那關係人就必須要監察院受到監察委員的調查那我實在有點害怕因為甚至說未來各位所有的人只要有人舉報只要監察委員覺得可以那請來監察院說明請問一下這是為了還人還為了彈劾 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
340.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
364.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好 謝謝 我想這個案我們已經討論到這邊了那我想請那我是不是就那個委員提到說我們有沒有跟司法權這個邊界清不清楚根據大法官會議解釋監察權監察院本身就是一個准司法的機關所以難怪會委員會有那樣的疑問說那我跟司法權是不是有涉事實上我們在准司法的過程當然有 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
365.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
389.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第一個我們會運用司法的程序所以在過程都要獨立啦等等這些都是司法的程序來進行第二個在司法權上面我們等於是司法權的先行的一個機關所以才會有 譬如說我們談了之後就會所以兩邊的確有一點overlap對吧這個是整個憲政 對 兩邊是有overlap對吧不能叫 我們其實那個邊界還蠻清晰只是我們有 我們叫做準司法的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
391.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
410.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個325號大法官會解釋我想繼續提另外一個剛剛您提到一個很有趣的問題就是今年的這個人民陳情案件會超過十萬件那我想請問一下每年大概多少那我想請問一下不是今年我們這一屆這一屆十萬上一屆大概是八萬二上一屆整屆大概是八萬二那這一屆我們預估會應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
413.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
421.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以一年兩萬件嘛對不對那我想請問一下每一年受理的差不多兩萬一千件左右嘛那想請問其中真正啟動調查的比例是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
423.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
446.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我請副秘書長統計上面請她說明跟委員說明我們的任期是六年所以每年大概是一萬五到一萬八左右那每年調查多少屆除了那個調查案我們六屆到現在為止是1564案那可是因為這一屆我們有監察法第30條的委託調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
448.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
464.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那這個委託調查其實也是一種調查的方式不管是委託調查還是直接你說的1564件也好比例差不多十分之一我在說明一下那個委託調查的件數大概我們現在目前統計到3月底是3809件 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
466.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
488.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以加起來應該是大概是百分之如果說真的那種派查案的比例我說一千五百多的大概百分之二這個百分之二的派查率跟所有的國際上的國際監察組織比起來是一個合理正常而且不低的組織既然不是每一案都查那請問你們的選案標準是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
490.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
502.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我具體請教三點第一個有沒有明確的篩選標準第二個這個標準有沒有對外公開過第三個還是實務上由個別監察委員自行判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
504.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
532.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我說明一下就是監察院有一個監察院的立案派查原則他在立案派查原則第三點有條列是出實款有說哪些案子是應該比如說有重大的違法失職比如說是有機關的維持等等的就是跟扣合監察職權我們有一個立案派查原則他是一個法規你現在已經回了我就覺得很疑惑那如果回到2024年4月24號侯友宜的案子請問是屬於哪一項啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
536.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
553.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我現在講的是說全國民眾對這件事情甚至有時候法學界對這件事情有些疑慮的地方那如果沒有清楚一致可預測的標準是不是說裁量權是否過度擴張而缺乏外部監督呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
557.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
584.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那甚至從人民的角度看更簡單了為什麼有些案件剛剛講說一年差不多一萬八嘛一萬五到一萬八嘛那每年去受審的差不多多少十趴還是五趴每年的案件你們現在列案的案件加起來如果每年這樣的話每年一萬五千件一般八千件那等於說每年平均分擔的話那個受審率是多少受審率的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
584.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
608.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
就是說你們現在正式承擔立案要去調查的案子我們畢竟是來講監察院的功能我們不是來講數學那從人民的角度看起來那更簡單啦為什麼有些案件曾經多年沒有下文那為什麼有些案件甚至幾十年前的舊案卻可以重新啟動而且動作還很快這樣的差異請問是基於客觀標準還是主觀選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
616.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
630.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
報告委員我們都是基於陳情人所提的證據有沒有對於案件事實加以聲明來決定立法與否所以基本上採用證據法則如果人民陳情的空犯那我們沒辦法立案謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
632.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
653.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以老實說問題從來都不是監察院有沒有在做事而是是不是用同一把矢來做事人民其實要求的不高他們在意的是我的案子有沒有被查到他們在意的是同樣的事情是不是用同樣的標準來對待如果監察院沒有辦法讓人民相信兩件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
654.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
681.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
監察院的行使權是政治中立的調查標準是前後一致可受檢驗的那我們今天問題就不是只有個案爭議而是整個制度性正當性的動搖最後面我想回到一個最基本的這個建設性的問題做總結監察院是否已經提出還是即將提出具體的改革方案來回應當前的信任危機呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
686.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
706.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
跟委員說明其實監察院每一年在法規上面都有要求要做年度的檢討所以我們每一年的檢討會對於這年度的狀況做檢討也會對未來做一些提示有沒有考慮建立所謂公開透明的案件篩選機制呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
708.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
729.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
是 那剛剛因為我有說明我們有一個立案派查原則它就是一個準則那有些順序的客標指關呢是 那原則上我們每一件人民陳情案件都會依法處理就絕對不會把它吃是否監察院應該本身開始強化對監察委員裁量權的內部跟外部監督呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
731.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
751.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
跟委員說明這個委員立案其實還是有一定的行政程序那委員提出調查報告也有委員會的審查程序所以雖然監察委員是依據法律然後依據法律超越黨派獨立行使職權可是還是有一些審查的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
753.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
776.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
監察院的價值是在於監督權力但是當人民已經開始監督監察院的時候代表的絕對不是民主跟進步代表是警訊已經響起我期待監察院能夠用制度來回應質疑而不是用個案來解釋個案讓監察權回到它應有的位置不是讓人懷疑的權力而是讓人安心的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
777.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
800.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們的準司法的制度當然一定就是秉持的立法的原則啦其實我們很多的相關的管制也是從立法原則而來例如說我們必須要行政中立獨立於黨派這當然就是從這個原則我們來進行在進行的過程我們也時時刻刻我看到所有的監委都兢兢業業在做這件事所有的同仁也依據這些原則在進行之中 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
801.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
822.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以我這樣大院真的可以放心我們的監察院真的有努力把行政中立等這個原則做到最好這樣子跟秘書長分享一下目前不是本席覺得現在我們監察院是有疑問的而是普遍人民對監察院都沒有什麼信心以上 謝謝謝謝您的指教 |