| IVOD_ID |
168382 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168382 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-19-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-09T11:35:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-09T11:46:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc786498784a3735d7bff16f9abdda18f34775daf206319287785564259685e84df5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
謝衣鳯 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:35:59 - 11:46:59 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、公平交易委員會代理主任委員、衛生福利部首長、法務部首長及行政院消費者保護處首長就「中東衝突加劇市場不確定性，致國內包括乙烯、塑膠、化肥、瀝青等石化原物料及物流成本增加，屢傳缺料、囤貨現象等之問題評估、因應策略與現況」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝委員衣鳯 |
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江次長文若 |
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江次長文若 |
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0.873 |
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0.933 |
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16.811 |
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接下來請謝依鳳委員質詢謝謝主席 我想要請我們農業部的陳部長 請陳部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
22.851 |
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33.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
陳部長早安你知道嗎現在中東的衝突你上次跟我講說肥料不會缺不會缺也不會脹也不會脹對我們採用凍脹的對可是問題是你不知道它會什麼時候是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
39.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
61.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
不知道怎樣 我說不知道他要打到什麼時候啊是不是過去評估是在八個禮拜以內嘛可是現在如果半年一年還有你即便說現在不會缺但是民眾的或者是農民的預期心理你怎麼樣子去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
81.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我分兩個部分其實我們農業部門針對肥料動漲確保農民用肥的一個優先權我們前COVID-19 111年的時候我們就持續動漲而且價差補貼到現在我知道然後中東戰爭的話我們會開更多的品項去滿足農民的需求問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
83.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
97.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
你提到了COVID-19嘛我們都記得在COVID-19的時候這一套系統就在做但是那時候就發生了民眾的預期心理那囤積了非常多的化肥 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
98.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
114.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那也導致了那時候化肥是沒有辦法放久的嘛放久了會硬化等等那也導致了那時候後續產生了非常多的問題現在也是同樣的情況當政府宣布說 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
117.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
129.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
肥料是充足的 那時候政府也宣布肥料充足啊 但是農民的預期心理是沒有辦法控制的嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
131.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
157.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
農民對政府的信心不足尤其是現在當我們的塑膠袋發生了塑膠力不足的情況那也產生了有囤積然後沒有辦法有效的放到需要的店家手上在這樣子的情況下如果肥料也發生同樣的問題我想要請教的是怎麼處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
158.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
180.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我跟委員報告其實在COVID-19那個肥料之亂的情況我有參與在裡面那我們也記取了那時候的一個時間序列的部分所以肥料凍漲因為當時農民要囤肥第一個怕肥料不夠第二個怕肥料漲價所以在這個之前其實在中東戰爭一爆發的時候其實我們就啟動了很多宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
181.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
209.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這第二個部分就是我們的農藥實名制在那個時候農藥實名制並沒有落實那現在農藥實名制落實了以後我們把這個後台跟台肥的公肥是對接的所以從肥料廠到農會或者是一般肥料行到農民他的所有的這些量我們都能夠掌握所以隨時可以了解哪個地方需要什麼樣的肥料我們供應到哪個農會系統那如果他有異常的時候我們就會去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
210.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
225.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這些農民本身所以那這樣子是不是有一點點變相的限制農民去購買我想我們並沒有去限制但是過去幾年來我們是民族的國家對我知道不能限制民眾農民購買肥料 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
228.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
247.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我覺得不會限制農民購買肥料但是肥料他們用的過去的習慣不能說他要存明年的肥料那個部分我想我們會用溝通的方式跟農民 那農民我想經過我們這幾個禮拜的溝通他們也了解其實我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
247.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
269.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
打包票肥料不漲他們就安心然後同時我們也滿足他及時的需求所以現在目前並沒有農民想要去囤積肥料因為囤積肥料有時候肥料囤積完了有失氣反而會造成結塊所以這個部分我想經過這麼多年來的努力我想農民大概了解到我們農業部本身的一些作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
269.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
284.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那你怎麼樣子確保基層的這個經銷商會不會就是利用這樣子訊息不對稱或者不熟悉這樣子實名制操作他如果變相大手勒是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
285.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
310.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我想我們後台用組合的方式不是 我們後台有供應到商系特別是一般的肥料行然後肥料行的實名制可以聯合農民的購肥如果說肥料行進貨的大於他出貨的那表示他有可能會有囤肥的部分那我們就會去了解所以我們透過這個機制現在是蠻平順的啦沒有這樣的一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
311.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
326.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以我是說當然你是說現在我是說你怎麼樣子就是說你都是用後台嘛是我說但是如果他已經就是變相的大售漲價這沒有辦法從後台了解啊你知道供貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
327.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
342.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你是從供貨端嘛可是變相的漲價以及將這些成本然後導致於就是說就是讓農民的生產成本變高嘛然後售價沒有上漲的情況下那農民的收入就減少啦 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
343.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
372.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我跟委員報告如果肥料隨便一般的肥料行隨便漲價的話農民就會反應那農民反應我們馬上知道那同樣的現在的肥料我們的吸收是百分之百吸收然後我們跟台肥來協助如果他漲價的時候我們就不供肥給他了肥料行如果漲價我就不供肥他就沒有辦法賣肥料所以這個部分我是不是能請教那個公平會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
378.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
406.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
因為這涉及到的就是搭售嘛如果有搭售的情況那你怎麼樣子認定它是漲價因為你只要它變相的漲價那個部長已經說了啊它就不供肥給這個農業那個農藥的廠商啊是不是我跟委員報告一下搭售的重點可能不在於價格而是在於教育自由的剝奪啦所以有幾個前提就是你實施這個搭售本身的廠商在市場上是有獨佔力的或是具有相當市場力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
407.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
422.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那等於說你脅迫一般民眾去買這個東西他必須同時購買別的東西那我們在乎的是說業者有沒有利用這樣的方式來排除市場的競爭至於說價格高低的跟大售之間的關係比較不是那麼直接了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
422.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
445.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以如果變相的漲價以及導致於到時候那個市場上又面臨到像塑膠袋的這個問題的時候那當然你講的是後端啦我講的是源頭啦今天剛好部長在這裡啦所以我也順便請教他他說如果在搭收變相的漲價的時候他就不供貨給人 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
446.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
467.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
怎麼樣子你們在行政院這個機制底下能夠有效的抑制我們肥料就是說農民買不到肥料或者是肥料的價格變相的漲價那導致於農民的就是他們的收入變相的減少這個東西我們政府部門怎麼預防嘛 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
468.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
493.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我跟委員說明因為肥料80%都是由台肥供應的那台肥供應本身就有一些價差的吸收了以後我們是把補助的價差提供給台肥不是給肥料行所以萬一某一個肥料行拿到台肥比較高的價錢賣的時候我們後台如果有反應我們馬上鎖住然後我們會讓農民引導到其他的肥料行 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
494.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
515.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那這樣子的話肥料行就不敢輕易因為它不是獨佔它在那個區域有很多的肥料行那每一個肥料行如果說它漲了農民可以跑到別的肥料行去如果那個區域的每個肥料行同步漲那就有可能涉及到聯合烘台價格的部分那公平匯的部分就可以去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
516.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
538.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好好謝謝我希望說肥料價格不要變相的漲價不要撥就是不要傷害農民的權利那也不要就是讓消費者的權益受到損害好不好我想委員對肥料這個價格一直蠻關切的我們也一直努力在做這方面的好謝謝我是不是再跟主席借幾分鐘請教一下江次長好謝謝兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
546.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
564.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
市长好你是OTN的副总代表是我想要请问一下根据台美对等的协定2025年到2029年我们将要对美采购252亿的电力设备 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
565.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
574.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
然後還有電網設備發電機儲能設備那我問你這樣子的設備是不是能夠跟我們現行的這個電網強韌計畫跟再生能源的併網計畫還有儲能建設的目標能夠銜接的上你在談判的過程當中有沒有涉及到這一塊跟委員報告我們在這個協議裡面所說的要 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
593.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
616.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
去採購的這個部分呢是必須要是主要是有關於這個現行的機組的部分而且呢他必須要經過公開招標的方式所以未來我們採購的所需要的這個品項絕對是符合我們所需要的所以也有辦法就是說跟目前我們設定的目標嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
617.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
636.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
是 有辦法嗎 國營師對 我們的機組就是主要是採購電力的設備部分是在機組啦那主要是跟電廠的更新改善有關那電力的那個電網的部分只是很小的一部分那基本上還是我們國內自己在就是這個沒有對外去採購的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
637.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
660.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以這個部分跟那個對美的採購沒有涉及只是涉及原本的基礎的部分好謝謝喔那也希望說我們的江次長你也是OTN的副總代表那未來還有非常多的這些關稅談判的問題那也希望說能夠協助好不好謝謝好謝謝謝一鋒委員 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:12.827000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:15.590000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席，我想請農業部陳部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:15.590000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:15.771000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請陳部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:15.771000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:15.791000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:21.851000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:22.292000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
陳部長早安。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:23.112000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:23.893000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
你知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:23.893000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:28.197000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
現在中東衝突，你上次跟我講肥料不會缺嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:29.639000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:30.139000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
不會缺也不會漲。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:30.139000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:30.259000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
也不會漲嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:30.259000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:31.259000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
你有跟我講過。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:30.259000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:31.060000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
對，我們採用凍漲的…… |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:31.080000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:32.141000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
可是問題是，你不知道他會是什麼時候，是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:38.747000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:39.388000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
不知道怎樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:39.388000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-04-09T11:36:41.870000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
我說不知道他們要打到什麼時候，是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-04-09T11:36:43.312000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-04-09T11:37:00.529000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
過去評估是在8個禮拜以內，可是現在如果半年、一年，還有即便你現在不會缺，但是民眾或者農民的預期心理，你怎麼樣去解決？ |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.98 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-04-09T11:37:01.370000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-04-09T11:37:08.654000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
我分兩個部分，農業部門針對肥料凍漲及確保農民用肥優先權。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-04-09T11:37:09.395000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-04-09T11:37:14.037000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
111年在COVID-19的時候，我們就持續凍漲而且價差補貼到現在。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.885 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-04-09T11:37:14.418000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-04-09T11:37:14.678000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
我知道。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-04-09T11:37:15.898000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-04-09T11:37:20.641000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
中東戰爭的話，我們會開更多品項去滿足農民的需求，這是第一個。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.815 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-04-09T11:37:20.741000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-04-09T11:37:50.593000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
問題是，你提到了COVID-19，我們都記得，在COVID-19時這一套系統就在做，但是那時候就發生了民眾有預期心理而囤積了非常多化肥，因化肥是沒有辦法放久的，放久了會硬化等等，也導致後續產生非常多問題。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.955 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-04-09T11:37:50.593000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-04-09T11:38:00.773000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
現在也是同樣的情況，當政府宣布肥料是充足的，那時候政府也宣布肥料充足啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-04-09T11:38:01.434000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-04-09T11:38:08.183000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
但是農民的預期心理是沒有辦法控制的，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-04-09T11:38:10.321000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-04-09T11:38:36.556000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
當農民對政府的信心不足，尤其是現在就塑膠袋發生了塑膠粒不足的情況，也產生了囤積，沒辦法有效地放到需要的店家手上，在這樣的情況下，如果肥料也發生同樣的問題，我想要請教的是怎麼處置？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.951 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-04-09T11:38:37.636000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-04-09T11:38:53.765000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
我跟委員報告，COVID-19肥料之亂的情況，我有參與在內，我們也記取了那時候的時間序列部分，所以肥料凍漲，因為當時農民要囤肥，第一個怕肥料不夠，第二個怕肥料漲價。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.986 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-04-09T11:38:55.286000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-04-09T11:38:59.589000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
因此在這之前，中東戰爭一爆發的時候，其實我們就啟動了很多宣導。 |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-04-09T11:39:00.629000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-04-09T11:39:30.035000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
第二個部分，在那個時候農藥實名制並沒有落實，現在農藥實名制落實了以後，我們把這個後台跟台肥的供肥是對接的，從肥料廠到農會，或者是一般肥料行到農民，所有這些量我們都能夠掌握，所以隨時可以了解哪個地方需要什麼樣的肥料，我們供應到哪個農會系統，如果有異常的時候，我們就會去了解這些農民本身…… |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.977 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-04-09T11:39:31.457000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-04-09T11:39:35.562000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
這樣子是不是有一點點變相地限制農民購買？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-04-09T11:39:36.063000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-04-09T11:39:39.487000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
我們並沒有限制，但是過去幾年來…… |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-04-09T11:39:39.487000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-04-09T11:39:41.290000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
我們是民主的國家…… |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-04-09T11:39:41.910000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-04-09T11:39:42.211000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
對，我知道。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-04-09T11:39:42.351000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-04-09T11:39:44.053000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
不能限制農民購買肥料。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-04-09T11:39:47.177000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-04-09T11:40:22.652000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
我絕對不會限制農民購買肥料，但是他們過去用肥料的習慣，不能說他要囤明年的肥料，那個部分我們會跟農民用溝通的方式，我想經過我們這幾個禮拜的溝通，他們也了解，其實我們打包票肥料不漲，他們就安心，同時我們也滿足他即時的需求，所以目前並沒有農民想要囤積肥料，因為有時候肥料囤積久了有溼氣反而會造成結塊。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.897 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-04-09T11:40:23.033000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-04-09T11:40:28.157000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
這部分經過這麼多年來的努力，我想農民大概了解到農業部本身的一些作為。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-04-09T11:40:29.120000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-04-09T11:40:41.817000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
你怎麼樣確保，基層經銷商會不會利用訊息不對稱，或者不熟悉實名制操作，他如果變相搭售呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-04-09T11:40:43.039000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-04-09T11:40:43.219000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-04-09T11:40:45.260000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-04-09T11:40:46.340000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
用組合的方式。 |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-04-09T11:40:46.801000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-04-09T11:41:09.605000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
不是，我們後台有供應到商系，特別是一般的肥料行，然後肥料行的實名制可以聯合農民的購肥，如果肥料行進貨的大於他出貨的，表示他可能會有囤肥的部分，我們就會去了解，所以我們透過這個機制，現在是蠻平順的，沒有這樣的一個方式。 |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.99 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-04-09T11:41:11.708000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-04-09T11:41:17.274000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
當然你是說現在，我是說你怎麼樣……你都是用後台嘛！是。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.955 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-04-09T11:41:17.494000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-04-09T11:41:24.562000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
我是說但是，如果他已經就是變相的搭售、漲價，這沒有辦法從後台了解啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-04-09T11:41:24.802000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-04-09T11:41:25.202000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
你知道供貨…… |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-04-09T11:41:25.202000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-04-09T11:41:26.244000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
我知道…… |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-04-09T11:41:26.244000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-04-09T11:41:27.465000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
你是從供貨端嘛！對。 |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-04-09T11:41:27.845000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-04-09T11:41:36.815000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
不是變相漲價，以及將這些成本導致讓農民的生產成本變高嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.962 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-04-09T11:41:37.436000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-04-09T11:41:41.360000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
售價沒有上漲的情況下，農民的收入就減少了，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.955 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-04-09T11:41:42.041000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-04-09T11:41:50.327000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
我跟委員報告，如果一般的肥料行隨便漲價的話，農民就會反映；農民反映，我們馬上知道。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-04-09T11:41:51.208000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-04-09T11:42:03.036000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
同樣的，現在的肥料我們是百分之百吸收，我們跟台肥來協助，如果他漲價的時候，我們就不供肥給他了。 |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.976 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-04-09T11:42:04.157000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-04-09T11:42:06.959000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
肥料行如果漲價，我們就不供肥，他就沒有辦法賣肥料。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.955 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-04-09T11:42:08.580000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-04-09T11:42:11.062000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
針對這個部分，我是不是能請教公平會主委？ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-04-09T11:42:17.137000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-04-09T11:42:23.220000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
因為這涉及到搭售，如果有搭售的情況，你怎麼樣認定他是漲價？ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.962 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-04-09T11:42:23.220000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-04-09T11:42:34.026000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
因為只要他變相漲價，部長已經說了，他就不供肥給這個廠商，是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
陳代理主任委員志民 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-04-09T11:42:34.046000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-04-09T11:42:38.809000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
我跟委員報告一下，搭售的重點可能不在於價格，而是在於交易自由的剝奪。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.935 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
陳代理主任委員志民 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-04-09T11:42:40.430000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-04-09T11:42:51.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
有幾個前提，就是實施搭售本身的廠商在市場上是有獨占力，或是具有相當的市場力量，等於你脅迫一般民眾去買這個東西，他必須同時購買別的東西。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.968 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
陳代理主任委員志民 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-04-09T11:42:51.699000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-04-09T11:43:00.948000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
我們在乎的是，業者有沒有利用這樣的方式來排除市場的競爭，至於價格高低跟搭售之間的關係，比較不是那麼直接。 |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.979 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-04-09T11:43:01.549000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-04-09T11:43:46.554000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
所以如果變相漲價，以及導致於到時候市場上又面臨像塑膠袋這個問題的時候，當然你講的是後端，我講的是源頭，今天剛好部長在這裡，所以我也順便請教他，他說如果再搭售變相漲價的時候，他就不供貨了，你們在行政院這個機制底下，怎麼樣能夠有效地抑制就我們的肥料，農民買不到肥料，或者是肥料價格變相漲價，導致於農民收入變相減少，這個政府部門怎麼預防，是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.942 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-04-09T11:43:47.414000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-04-09T11:44:34.175000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
我跟委員說明，因為肥料80%都是由台肥供應，台肥供應本身就有一些價差的吸收了，以後我們是把補助的價差提供給台肥，不是給肥料行，所以萬一某一家肥料行拿到台肥的……他用比較高的價錢賣的時候，後台如果有反映我們馬上鎖住，後續我們會將農民引導到其他肥料行，這樣子的話肥料行就不敢輕易漲價，因為他不是獨占，在那個區域有很多肥料行，如果他漲了，農民可以跑到別的肥料行去，如果那個區域的每個肥料行同步漲，就有可能涉及到聯合哄抬價格的部分，公平會的部分就可以去處理。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.902 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-04-09T11:44:35.291000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-04-09T11:44:36.552000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
好，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-04-09T11:44:36.552000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-04-09T11:44:46.220000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
我希望肥料價格不要變相漲價，就是不要傷害農民的權利，也不要讓消費者的權益受到損害，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
陳部長駿季 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-04-09T11:44:47.521000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-04-09T11:44:52.165000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
委員對於肥料價格一直滿關切，我們也一直努力在做這方面的…… |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2026-04-09T11:44:52.385000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2026-04-09T11:44:52.725000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
好，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2026-04-09T11:44:52.725000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2026-04-09T11:44:57.009000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
我是不是再跟主席借幾分鐘，請教一下江次長？ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2026-04-09T11:44:57.009000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2026-04-09T11:44:57.009000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
次長好。 |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.333 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
江次長文若 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2026-04-09T11:45:05.946000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2026-04-09T11:45:05.946000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.333 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2026-04-09T11:45:06.967000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2026-04-09T11:45:10.211000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
你是OTN的副總代表，對不對？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2026-04-09T11:45:11.332000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2026-04-09T11:45:27.948000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
我想要請問一下，根據臺美對等的協定，2025年到2029年我們將要對美採購252億的電力設備，還有電網設備、發電機、儲能設備，我問你這樣子的設備是不是能夠跟我們現行的電網強韌計畫跟再生能源的併網計畫，還有儲能建設的目標能夠銜接得上？ |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.845 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2026-04-09T11:45:27.968000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2026-04-09T11:45:31.649000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
你在談判的過程當中，有沒有涉及到這一塊？ |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
江次長文若 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2026-04-09T11:45:31.649000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2026-04-09T11:46:10.671000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
跟委員報告，我們在這個協議裡面所說要去採購的這部分主要是有關於現行機組的部分，而且它必須要經過公開招標的方式，所以未來我們採購的品項，絕對是符合我們所需要的。 |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0.986 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2026-04-09T11:46:11.331000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2026-04-09T11:46:16.938000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
所以也有辦法跟上目前我們設定的目標嗎？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2026-04-09T11:46:17.459000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2026-04-09T11:46:18.560000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
有辦法嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2026-04-09T11:46:18.560000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2026-04-09T11:46:18.560000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
國營司。 |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
胡司長文中 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2026-04-09T11:46:18.560000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2026-04-09T11:46:35.256000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
對，我們主要採購的電力設備部分是在機組，主要是跟電廠的更新改善有關，電力電網的部分只是很小的一部分，基本上還是我們國內自己在……這個沒有對外去採購的。 |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.985 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2026-04-09T11:46:36.239000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2026-04-09T11:46:41.805000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
所以這個部分跟對美採購並沒有涉及，只是涉及原本機組的部分？ |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
胡司長文中 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2026-04-09T11:46:41.805000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2026-04-09T11:46:42.805000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
對、對、對，是。 |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
謝委員衣鳯 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2026-04-09T11:46:42.565000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2026-04-09T11:46:57.159000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
好，謝謝，也希望我們的江次長，你也是OTN的副總代表，未來還有非常多這些關稅談判的問題，也希望能夠協助，好不好？謝謝。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.981 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
主席（洪委員毓祥） |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2026-04-09T11:46:57.159000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2026-04-09T11:46:59.001000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
好，謝謝謝衣鳯委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
主席（洪委員毓祥） |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2026-04-09T11:46:59.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2026-04-09T11:47:10.358143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
也跟謝衣鳯委員報告，昨天我有請他們要交252億的採購內容，所以到時候會送到經委會來，OK！ |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
主席（洪委員毓祥） |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2026-04-09T11:47:10.658143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2026-04-09T11:47:14.086714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
好，接下來請張雅琳委員質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0 |