| IVOD_ID |
168285 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168285 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-08T12:08:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-08T12:20:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:24 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/70d8fc05dcd8abb00f4cff56266bf05d01ae777e4c72867e3efd812baa63ee584999303e8e406dd25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:08:17 - 12:20:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部就「穩定供給與減塑並進：因應國際原物料波動之原物料穩定供應及我國減塑治理進程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
討論事項
一、審查「廢棄物清理法條文修正草案」9案：
（一）委員馬文君等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五條條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員顏寬恒等19人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五條條文修正草案」案。
（四）委員林淑芬等22人擬具「廢棄物清理法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。
（五）委員張宏陸等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
（六）委員邱議瑩等21人擬具「廢棄物清理法部分條文修正草案」案。
（七）委員許智傑等29人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
（八）委員劉建國等19人擬具「廢棄物清理法部分條文修正草案」案。
（九）委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五十條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查「資源回收再利用法修正草案」2案：
（一）委員許智傑等28人擬具「資源回收再利用法修正草案」案。
（二）委員盧縣一等16人擬具「資源回收再利用法修正草案」案。
【專題報告及法律案綜合詢答，法律案僅詢答】
【4月8日及9日二天一次會】） |
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好 感謝主席 我們請彭部長有請彭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
12.242 |
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侯委好部長好部長兩個議題第一土方之亂從今年的一月開始到現在真的到現在大家還是覺得是說還是有沒有辦法去化的一個問題那尤其是土方處理費我們聽說是已經飆漲了五六倍之多那現在的問題點在於是你盤點了應該內政部負責還是應該環境部負責但你盤點了一些去化的地點到最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.903 |
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找不到合格的土方回收場那就變成是說找相關的填海造陸的部分所以本席的台北港也被點名了那現在新北市府這邊說有規劃要做一個戰製場但地方的鄉親反彈會以及說懷疑說到底戰製場還是永久場未來會不會放在那邊戰製然後就變永久之後所有土方全部都來這邊來做一個去化 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.563 |
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86.839 |
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部長是不是可以說明一下因為其實土方做不行啦不然的話每天我們都一直看到氣質北部往中南部到中南部往南部到所以這個是一直國人的痛啦幾十年來沒有解決問題所以我們很認真的要去解決我們看到很多非法的土方氣質不管是高雄不管是台南地方政府當然要去追查啊不要說有包庇啊不要上下其手但是這一個部分我現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
87.439 |
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非法的部分我們一定強烈要求要取締這沒有問題沒有人要掩護非法但現在是你們倉促上路的政策結果到最後變成是我們地方要來接收這些原本不在我們的土方好那來即便是來那你說戰制我有查到一個資料說你說一年內可以戰制完畢等於是說戰制場工程生退 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
110.919 |
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131.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我想請教因為我們到地方的時候問他沒有辦法有一個明確的保證是說戰事只有一年好包圍因為這個最主要是這個台北港喔他如果要填土方的話那個需要環評還有一些程序那個還有一點時間所以那個時間差裡面他先開了一塊可以做戰事場跟台北跟新北來做一個使用所以目前這是一個戰事而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
132.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
159.394 |
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兩個部分台北港現在聽說有要再跟環境部申請環評還要再增加填海的量從原本的好像400萬噸要變成500萬噸這是台北港他們要去送可是另外一個部分是我們也看到那就變成是說量會集中會更大那我們要看到的另外一個部分是那戰制場到底要戰制多久戰制通常就是等那個環評過了他可以開始填埋的時候再行處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.094 |
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171.799 |
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所以如果說現在我那我這樣子我直接比較明確的講因為現在地方政府沒有辦法跟我們承諾那如果說我們這個戰制下去了那未來一年內有沒有辦法他就可以攻城深退 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
174.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
189.927 |
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跟委員這邊報告那我想土方目前因為現在突然之間的量變大那我們現在已經努力他不是量變大是突然之間你們政策改了然後又沒有配套措施所以說土方沒地方去沒有因為說台灣突然間量 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
190.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
209.069 |
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增出來量都是那麼多只是過去大家不願意處理那沒關係你要處理可是你也要想出配套措施而不是突然間1月1號開始執行然後就變成是大家要幫忙擦屁股那個不能這樣說我們廢棄物土方都有管制土方是沒有管制所以我們土方有管制合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
210.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
230.396 |
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那就過去好不管是藍營有執政過綠營也執政過但綠營現在也執政10年了你突然間2026年1月1號是說你們換了一個新制度然後讓他變成是土方大家全部都要面對這個問題台灣是我們大家共同的土地但我現在要問的是原本他要 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
230.936 |
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249.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
在其他地方處理合格的土地等等的那現在很大部分雙北至少第一階段雙北的公共工程的土方就要來台北港嘛那現在台北港外有一個戰制場一直講說戰制那我們要問的是戰制要戰制多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
250.403 |
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269.011 |
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跟委員這邊報告因為我們現在主要是穩定它的數量因為台北港進港的數量每天是有限量的一個有一個限量有一個上限那我們現在先而且現在台北港它的收土量也有增加的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
270.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
290.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
額度進去了 那所以說慢慢的我們現在戰事場只是先讓土方突然就是目前正在開發的土方有一個先戰事的地方讓工程不要終止造成公共危害的情形所以戰事場只是一個臨時的一個功能而已 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
291.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
316.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你講的都是我的問題我現在就說 臨時的公路我們都理解但是你那些土方原本不在那個地方那你現在在巴黎地區找了一塊空地而且那一塊空地以往還是算所謂的濕地喔但你們現在把它搞出來之後然後就現在要來做這個站制那站制還要在那邊破碎等於是有比較大塊的那些混凝土你要在那邊用怪手把它破碎所以也會造成飛塵跟噪音嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
317.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
342.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
完了之後再送進台北港去做填土但我們現在要問的是好 臨時那為什麼不能說在港區裡面為什麼要在外面距離民宅比較近這是一點那選地本來就有問題那另外一點本期更要問的是那你臨時你可以多久因為部長之前有講過說有信心一年之內所有戰事場就可以退場嘛那我們現在要問是說這個承諾還算不算 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
344.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
353.97 |
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還是你下去之後永久變成是巴黎民眾以後就要跟這個戰事場共存你就戰事就不叫戰事你就變成是永久土方處理廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
355.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
383.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那只是名字好聽而已那這樣我們民眾怎麼有辦法接受目前雙北的部分就是台北港的部分目前是預計一年一年那一年到了好因為現在我知道四月雙北地區公共工程也有壓力所以說他們也希望能夠競速那如果假設這樣的話明年四月可以退場那我們要問的是說明年四月退場的機制在哪邊是以後明年四月就不用再破碎了可以直接就進台北港直接到 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
384.934 |
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403.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
現在就是台北港的量如果足夠進去的話那當然這邊的戰資場的數量就可以慢慢的去化掉了那目前我們預估是一年因為我們現在都已經在尋求更多的土資場讓他可以收集更多的量好來那部長謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
405.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
427.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這算是你的承諾嗎明年的這時候不用我再回來的時候還看到那個地方還在營運這個是國土署在處理的但是我們會密切注意這個東西因為他們現在是卡在環評環評大概要一段時間然後才能夠一年後才把那開出來誰卡在環評呃他的台北港要台北港卡在環評台北港的到因為本時有聽到消息是台北港現在也要送環評申請從400萬變500萬那假設 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
430.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
450.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
一樣是在我們環評委員的這個專業評估判斷下認為可行那這個土方的戰志場就可以退場 是 是不是好 所以本席現在先確認因為要讓我們地方知道是說這個戰志不是永久不要到時候變成是你設了之後 欸乞丐感妙工到之後變成是民眾要跟你這個忍受啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
452.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
472.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
本席一年的時間本席一定會追這個進度而且這個也算是我們中央部會的承諾請一定要繼續做到 包委員這個也要地方單位要很努力來支持所以新北市也有一個平台所以這個是中央跟地方協力在做的台北新北當然都支持所以說現在新北已經把 支持也要來做喔新北已經把地都貢獻出來還不算支持嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
473.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
493.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那個地 照理講那個地算是不管是中央也好 地方也好我們現在地方是承受台灣 北台灣的這個戰志嘛那我們現在要的是說你們的政策不能倉促上路之後到最後我們找一塊地然後要幫你變戰志的地方然後結果遙遙無期到時候這個地方就變成是永久的戰志區 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
494.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
509.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個是本席一定要提醒的來 那第二個部分因為本席剛剛講兩個問題 不好意思因為剛剛這個回答比較久一點我再點一下一個時間是 剛剛林淑芬委員講那麼久你這樣子 主席你真的是很大小眼 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
511.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
531.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
本委跟外委那都一樣我們都是委員同仁我們的問題那麼的重要如果說你連多一分鐘兩分鐘當然可以馬上沒有問題部長現在有反應是說民眾都買不到14公升的環保袋那我覺得這可能跟經濟部有相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
532.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
558.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那我現在想要確認一下因為經濟部他現在要解決這問題明明一開始跟我們講說中東戰火或是說這個相關原物料都說沒有缺乏但現在經濟部想要解決問題反而是說要增量5000噸的平價塑膠袋那是不是又跟我們的這個減速訴求又有相抵觸那到底現在我們的塑膠袋有沒有缺有沒有人囤積有沒有這個相關供貨的問題對 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
561.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
576.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
目前這個雙北市的這個市府的這個付費的垃圾袋是沒有問題的但民眾有反應有買不到那個其實是在整個供應鏈裡面對好那另外一部分經濟部現在說要宣布增產5000噸的平價塑膠袋 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
579.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
593.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那我們到底想問的是你一方面跟我們講說原料沒有問題一方面跟我們講供貨沒有問題但是你現在又說我要宣布要增加五千噸的平價塑膠袋那不就跟我們減數的政策又背道而馳沒有沒有那到底你們環境部跟經濟部兩個是怎麼樣來溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
595.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
609.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
第一個是民眾的日常生活當中最後一里路這個攤販夜市等等他需要一種所提的塑膠袋那的確有些可能在供貨有預期心理之下他會搶購所以造成沒有是他們是安定人心那對我們來說當然是推動減塑啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
611.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
629.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以大力在推動啊所以我現在要問的是說像這個五千噸的塑膠袋它會是最後一波嗎還是說這未來變成是常態還是你要無限量五萬噸五千噸有多少呢12.5億個因為已經超過五分鐘了12.5億個跟委員說明因為過去除了有國內生產所以現在是為了要後面委員要趕行程 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
636.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
662.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以現在是委員敢形成我當然考慮啊所以說你如果說召委你要召委如果說你要這樣子控管的話那應該就是從源頭管理每一位委員都有一定的標準嘛我當然互相但是我現在是你看現在官員要講然後就被人打斷那其實官員這一些時間早就官員就可以講完咧不是嗎來一分鐘一句話簡單說明一下你們現在到底是跟委員報告現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
664.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
679.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
現在是那個短期在應急而已啦不是一個常態性的這跟委員說一個所以會不會還有再增加的一個政策目前的是這個狀況啦當然還要看國際局勢又看國際局勢又不是自由掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
681.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
695.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
本席再次強調如果說要的話政府是一體的應該政策要一致性而不是每一次又跟我們講這一套但是做得又一套讓民眾無所適從我想這才是本席今天才提出的問題不會無所適從這是兩個不一樣政策的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
698.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
723.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
本席想要結束這個質詢是因為本席還對你的專業有尊重但如果說你每一次都要用這種強化的方式或是說你每次都要因為本席現在就看到民眾的反應是最直接的嘛過去一個月就是有發生很多的塑膠袋之亂過去一個月就是有很多民眾都說買不到塑膠袋過去的一個月就是看到經濟部一方面又講是說沒有缺單一方面又說要增量 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
724.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
729.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那我們到底想問的是說今天趙偉排那麼專業的一個報告就是要讓大家釐清這個狀況啊每次都是這樣在硬拗哎民進黨政府現在是硬拗誠信了然後連大白話都不能講就對了對因為他現在他好謝謝趙偉好謝謝洪文凱委員 |