| IVOD_ID |
167975 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167975 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-26T13:44:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-26T13:59:28+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:11 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/62ea4221ea272c4e0d49ed51af780c6dc30e9bbc489b48f67c21d93b3021e0bf12eae036270d068b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:44:17 - 13:59:28 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部長及勞動部部長就「在職照顧者支持體系是否完善、長照3.0服務輸送與長照安排假評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【3月25日及26日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
3.356 |
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31.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 謝謝主席 有請洪部長有請洪部長 沈部長你休息一下一個鐘頭的時候再叫你 好 謝謝部長今天 謝謝主席特別排這個在職照顧者的知識體系視我完善然後長照3.0服務輸送與長照安排價的評估那從早上到現在不曉得部長聽到這麼多委員的意見有沒有評估出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
61.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
那個跟劉遠說明就是剛剛其實我們一直在跟衛福部也在討論其實對於現在是長照的制度新的制度上路以後那接下來民眾尤其是受僱勞工他還會遇到的一些狀況包括他可能需要等待的時間或者是需要協助的樣態那我們希望有一個進一步的盤點以後那我們就一併的一起來評估說是不是要透過職場的制度工作的制度來去加以給予幫助跟支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
82.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
他會有一個評估的過程跟邏輯我是請教你說因為從一早到現在嘛對不對那你回答我最後就是有一個評估跟邏輯我聽不太懂意思當然一定要評估啊就是說你現在你內心從早上聽到現在是不是有一個方向一個範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
109.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我自己的內心當然我們當然認為也不是我自己的內心包括我們其實部裡面我想包括現在其實相關的部會其實都希望要因為照顧而離職的勞工可以減少我覺得這是一個最重要的方向因為我們最不樂見的事情就是勞工因為他要做家庭的照顧而必須被迫離開職場這其實對我們整體的勞動力產業的發展都不是好事 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
109.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
133.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我想這件事情是我們一個很重要的初衷的邏輯跟原則在這個地方那至於進行或者現在大家討論到是長照的安排要是假還是留庭還是用各種其他的做法我想這部分我們就是需要跟衛福部再做更進一步的討論所以簡單講你的內心深處到現在就是還沒有辦法做一個定奪啦應該是這樣嘛因為我們看不進你的內心所以你講出來的時候就是還是沒有結論啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
134.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
154.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
就是制度要走哪一個路徑去幫忙這件事情的確還需要演繹對啦 演繹多久其實今天因為剛剛委員會的時候林耀群委員其實有一個提案那大概會有三個月的時間其實我們對於相關的可行性會做出一些演繹三個月對 就是今天早上的提案對對 我知道 會不會太久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
178.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你的內心會不會感受到這樣是有點過久了?是不是需要縮短一些時間?當然提讓我們尊重啦我為什麼這麼講?因為你自己講的也非常清楚嘛這個數據應該是正確嘛家庭照顧者公園總會提供的全國231萬的勞工有五分之一因為照顧私人私自身心障礙家人而影響工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
198.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
每年約有13.3萬因照顧離職這是勞動部的資料所以我們也是在這個基礎下面去做這些思考那這個數據如果是正確你看一年你引進多少外勞現在一年嘛 淨增加的大概幾萬大概3萬3、4萬你說國外引進3萬 近3萬左右也沒關係嘛 對不對那我們每年一會這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
206.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
222.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
要照顧兒離子的13.3萬你再怎麼進是3萬多你因照顧兒離子13萬多你看這個落差多大所以台灣永遠在缺工啊怎麼補你都補不到啊 補不滿嘛補不足啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
223.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
245.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這是現狀,這是現實嘛所以今天我想這個絕對不是要單純你跟衛福部部長兩個有共識之後的一個處理啦我覺得這個是可能要拉到整個院的層級來看待台灣的勞動力整體因為這一塊那個缺角的擴大的範圍是越來越嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
247.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
260.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
還是你可以跟我講說三個月評估轉之後我們可能下半年度還是明年開始我們每年不會因為要照顧失能失智身心障礙的家人離此的這樣的一個數額他是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
264.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
274.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
明年開始可能會減大致上剩下10萬那你剩下10萬那你補消融過來那就還好我這麼講我這麼講是也沒有算是很精準但是只是看到這個數據我們用數據來做對比來做評估來做因應嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
283.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
309.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
因為我這邊可能沒有辦法跟你說明年就一定會怎麼樣因為都是缺工缺到非常非常的嚴重嘛對不對所以我說我們希望在這裡因為其實剛剛我們在講的很多的概念其實我也都是完全同意的那也是我們的一個方向跟目標但對於具體的做法跟制度的路徑那要做哪個選擇這的確我們會需要一點時間來去做這部分的評論而且這也是需要跨部會的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
311.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
318.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我再用一個對照,我是覺得部長絕對有那個魄力,包含市部長都是非常有魄力,做事情的這種因應的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
過去累積上的經驗我看到都是很正面的也是很快速的你看你承擔起來有拿出破例再改革就會看到成果一月期運營假從過去必須一個月然後申請單位一個月改為一日來申請所以將近兩個月而已藍心的申請比例從過去的全年27.8%大幅增加到44.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
348.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
367.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
女性從72.2 降到55.6這兩個剛好合起來就男性提高16點多女性降16點多也讓整個照顧小朋友的責任不會只有著重在女性的身上對新手爸媽而言我想這個對家庭的整個融合啦然後對小朋友的親子等等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
368.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
390.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
其實都是很正向的這樣的發展這個就是有魄力啊這個就是政策趕快來做不管從幾個面向來做處理的時候那一實施出來我們就看到這樣的一個效益跟成果的展現嘛所以我才會在總執行的時候也特別跟院長提這個事情嘛然後也希望說原本到0到3歲那我們很多的這種規範是0到6歲那為什麼不能提高到6歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
395.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
414.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對不對部長也欣然的答應我所以我們其實現在也在對於要把這個適用的範圍擴大然後再做研擬對這個我們就可以這麼快速來做營業來做處理也看到這樣成效那我們現在全國缺工這麼嚴重然後每年還要引進外勞將近三萬出 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
433.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
左右然後你們又要去開放這個什麼這個家庭的外勤辦公室12歲以下的今天有很多人提出這樣的一個討論嘛對不對而且不論這個政策的精準與否嘛那我們可以看到我記得市長那天有講一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
435.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
459.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他是這麼講,這是理事長答覆的各國生育率涉及因素複雜,提高生育率並列為放寬家庭幫庸的主要政策目標護療戰略也不是考量重點,因為已經有其他政策在推動女性老三率了開放外籍幫庸是在眾多協助安心續留的政策裡面再多加一項選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
461.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
484.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這你們初中講話嘛 安心續留 安心續留難道不是用於在本勞的身上嗎這個我們就好像事業你們就要處理的嘛 對不對 就要執行的嘛那你跟我講你這個研擬多久啊 評估多久啊 在你內心深處啊 放了多久嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
487.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
512.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
今天還要有勞林月琴、渣偉再提一個臨時提案要求你們三個月他有沒有刺激到你的內心深處對廣泛的每年因為要照顧家人不管是知識人身心障礙而必須被迫離職的13.3萬的勞工而言情何以堪 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
513.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
541.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
每天有十幾萬欸十幾萬 十幾萬 十幾萬欸你一天補三萬 補三萬 補三萬三天有超過超過差三十萬欸所以你站不站不站得這麼嚴重的時候站在勞動的主管機關人力的整個這樣的一個穩定安心蓄流的權穩之下這事情你沒有辦法在你的內心深處放太久欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
544.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
569.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
今天沒有排這個案,坦白講,很多事情我們沒有辦法去凸顯出來,那今天已經排出來了,大家就從各個角度來做一個思考。我就單純從這個角度,因為台灣欠到你想不到的嚴重就對了。然後以農業外勞而言,大家都非常清楚嘛,對不對。那頭照有照到什麼程度? |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
571.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
590.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
然後這幾天的媒體陸續在報導以前淘寶外勞就是補足農業這個勞力不足的部分那農民部這邊也積極的在統一主管機關的申請的量能在擴大人數在擴大嘛但是怎麼擴大你都補不夠啊你都補不夠,那一十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
597.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
616.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
將近十萬以下,你一年我就補多少六千,每年又六千以下你不是每年六六千喔那個落差,現在一萬的話還是一萬八萬計,差不多一萬五左右上下嘛對不對然後現在實際上有在台灣的農田裡面實際上的這些逃跑外勞將四十萬左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
618.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
627.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你如果不處理暗示,遇到疫情的時候還不敢處理,現在是要處理,現在還浪漫時期,還浪漫時期,現在你不處理暗示的時候,這個逃走在我們台灣的國土裡面,已經有一定天堂的經驗了,所以他還自己活著,白天在台灣的農民宿營, |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
648.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
664.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
工廠會介紹你快做、快整、快修、快處理可能都中了因為不知道他看不到他未來在台灣還可以待多少天拚一天賺一天就是多一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
666.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
683.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那這樣的惡性循環情況之下,很多的台灣的榮業狀況,它就會持續惡性的循環,不停止啦。好,我把這個問題拉回來,我是對照說,你針對這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
686.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
702.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
應價的整體的這樣的一個放寬然後鼓勵更多的這些新手的爸爸媽媽來提出這樣的申請我們看到這樣成效所以我們希望下半年度我們就可以擴大這樣的一個範圍跟鏈局讓更多人都有這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
704.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
728.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這樣的一個機會來提出這個申請對整體社會而言對每一個家庭而言都是一個正向的事情那我們現在要來處理這些非常辛苦的期待可以提出這個照顧假申請的我們勞工的朋友我覺得我們的速度一定要加快不會自己來演繹你看嘛日本我們多都是仿照日本對照日本比較日本學習日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
729.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
758.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
人家1999年就提出93天的有薪照顧假他們是在2008年邁入超高齡社會人家鐵渣高檔人家做這些事情這坦白講我是用一個數據來做比較不一定進入到超高齡社會才必須要做這些事情但是台灣是2025嘛進到超高齡社會我們沒有提早我們還是7天並7天的試假真的有道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
760.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
778.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
對不對,七天,又多一個七天,你要看留言嗎?我幫你看看,今天你宣導的留言,在去年的十月十三,播一個宣傳家庭照顧假的文章,那請部長看嘛,照顧假就照顧假,試假就試假,為什麼要一起計算,讓人之有機會在那邊囉哩啪嗦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
780.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
788.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
然後主管不准部署請照顧假說他的單位不准請就是只能以施加7天還對部署瘋狂咆哮標罵不然就滾去別單位所以以部長的積極做事的態度跟那個因應的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
808.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
834.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
處理的方式我覺得這件事情真的不能拖了是真的不會拖了我們會盡快來研議產業或許有一些不一樣的意見產業也缺工啊你這個育嬰價的部分其實你調查起來是產業基本上也都支持嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
835.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
846.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那天在院會答詢的時候花了一些力氣說服所以在你的累積經驗裡面只要花了一些力氣應該就可以來說服這個家庭照顧假應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
850.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
872.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
應該可以快速的來做一個提高吧把這個換回去,把這個任期讓台灣的勞工不用再看到這種數據每年因為有13.3萬就五分之一的勞工,五分之一的勞工裡面又有13.3萬因為要照顧家裡的,甚至是等對象而被迫離職 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
874.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
895.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我們如果這個會期可以決定把辦拿出來部長的內心深處應該是朝這個方向那我們下半年度就可以實施那我們明年就可以馬上看到成效我們會努力啦,我們會努力OK?我們會努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
905.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
908.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
OK 拜拜 |