| IVOD_ID |
167949 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167949 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-26T09:56:58+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-26T10:11:45+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/62ea4221ea272c4e1c1307551561da7cc30e9bbc489b48f60f073324919e7b6ecd073220c318363b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王育敏 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:56:58 - 10:11:45 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部長及勞動部部長就「在職照顧者支持體系是否完善、長照3.0服務輸送與長照安排假評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【3月25日及26日二天一次會】） |
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今天召委排的議題跟長照有關長照家庭的壓力都很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
23.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
45.646 |
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那這個長照假看起來你們現在也沒有鬆口但是在討論這個議題之前我要讓部長來回顧一下之前我們其實也是解決長照家庭的壓力所以我們在委員會討論家裡有80歲以上的老人要免憑巴士量表可以聘外籍移工那我讓部長看一下你當時在2024年12月30號針對立法院這樣的法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.149 |
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78.349 |
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你這個發了一篇滿場的臉書喔你所有的內容都是在反對立法院通過這一個80歲以上的老人免巴氏量表可以聘看護工的這件事情你講了非常多的理由包括這個呢會產生器重就輕的現象包括你覺得外籍的看護工不是台灣要增加多少就可以增加多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.809 |
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96.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
包括你提到這會造成薪資的一個浮動這個薪資會變高那另外你也提到這個品質堪憂等等而且你估的潛在的人力需求高達16萬這個是在你的臉書這個是你親自發文的沒錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
117.426 |
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對那這個我要請教部長就是你當時極力的反對這樣的一個開放申請外籍看護工這樣的一個政策你講了非常多的理由我寧可相信你這是一個專業出發的理由那我就請你用同樣的標準來看待 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.266 |
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137.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
你最近就是宣布12歲以下家裡有一個12歲以下的小孩就可以聘家庭幫庸的這件事情麻煩部長你用你當時同樣的標準來看待這一項大幅鬆綁的政策你是不是就是雙標然後前後不一 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
138.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
154.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
跟委員說明委員這邊寫說我們的態度是被動執行我想我們並不是被動執行所以這個案子是你主動提案的不是我的意思是說你這邊寫到說46條的修法被動執行我們並不是被動執行我想說明給我一點時間說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
156.974 |
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179.953 |
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其實我們在去應該是去年的1月通過了這46條的修訂以後我們是很積極的研擬了六大的配套措施我們是主動研擬了配套措施你花了八個月的時間對因為我們包括跟衛福部之間我們包括系統的建置然後其實一些人員的配置其實我們研擬了包括有些在做法上流程上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
180.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
204.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
很好你花了八個月的時間去想你的配套這個我沒有反對我是在講當時法條要通過的時候你的立場還是極力反對因為通過之後你就必須去想配套嘛我現在在問你的是請問12歲以下的兒童家裡有12歲以下的兒童就可以開放家庭幫庸這件事情你贊成還是反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
227.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那當然我們現在政策是因拍板要來執行那你當時質疑這個80歲老人家裡有80歲以上的老人這不應該開放啊你的立場是很嚴格的你覺得連這個都不應該開放那你怎麼會去支持一個現在只要一個12歲以下的小孩就可以拼家庭幫用你不是說外籍移工不是你想增加多少就可以增加多少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
256.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那你當時所說的棄重就輕那會不會有更多人就不想照顧完直接去照顧小孩啊你所說的當時的理由現在還是不是理由跟文說明 我們的確是在去年的整個配套的執行裡面我們發現這個配套的執行是有效的這個配套的執行有效下讓原本大家其實原本擔心的一些狀況可以緩解跟降低好啦 部長我就問你 你要不要承認你就是有雙標 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
281.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你在開放12歲以下兒童這個就是可以找家庭幫你用這件事情你就沒有嚴格把關你沒有比照是原來就是你之前發臉書的這麼嚴格的標準來看待這個新的政策跟文說明重點是我們認為我們在去年的配套是有效的這個有效的配套下這個配套有效上可以確實是可以減緩一些原本大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
283.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
302.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
擔心的事情 你的配套大概只有棄重就輕這件事 你有說過外籍移工不是想增加多少就可以增加多少 是有沒有錯當然這個案都跟來源國有關所以我們後來 現在12歲以下家庭邦庸你們發的新聞稿是有144萬的家庭是符合資格的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
303.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
329.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這是消極資格並不是一百四十萬都會來申請他想要來申請就可以申請啊沒有門檻嘛主要家裡有一個十二歲的小孩就可以來申請啊那你怎麼不擔心並不是要多少就有多少那部長我再問你一句今天這一個開放十二歲以下就有一個小孩就有家庭幫庸的是不是勞動部提出來的政策是不是你們提的這個是我想是我們跟衛福部一起來研擬的那個時部長請上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
衛福部有提供這個意見跟主張嗎你們主張就是家裡有一個12歲以下的小孩開放家庭幫忙是你們提出來的政策應該是這麼講在這個政策的研擬過程當中我們有提供一些數字包含在居家所以你們才是始作俑者是你們提的勞動部背黑鍋 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
384.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
委員這不是誰背黑鍋的問題那誰提的你回答嘛這其實就是我很好奇誰會提出這個政策大埔松保的政策這其實就是行政院裡面我們兩個部會其實一起來所以你們兩個共同商議的要提出這項政策對什麼時候什麼時候其實從去年就在評估啦去年什麼時候其實去年下半年就在我們在媒體上也有回答其實我們一直在評估這個政策中所以是去年勞動部就有這個想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
386.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
399.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
去年其實就開始在這個政策上面因為我們也看到了一些需求有些聲音然後我們把這些需求的聲音也做綜合的評估包括它的可行性包括的做法包括需要的配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
400.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你去年就開始研議好那我就直接問你那你找了哪些團體來做你的這一些相關需求的評估哪一個團體跟你提出需求說麻煩勞動部開放家裡有一個12歲以下的小孩我就需要家庭幫助跟我說明其實這不一定是哪一個特定的團體總是會有人提出來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
420.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
435.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我自己親自都跟蠻多其實有這個需求的雙性家庭的家長我自己親自跟他們談了解他們的需求的狀況那其實也有很多團體但會有持不同意見的那他們也在透過很多的方式意見的表達這些意見我們都有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
435.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
454.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你開了哪些會議你可不可以告訴我就是你去年開了幾次會議找這些團體這個討論是非常多的不是說哪幾次會議的問題不要說非常多這非常的含糊啊我想在立法院委員會我想要了解就是說這個政策到底怎麼產生的嘛那你如果說是勞動部你懂那很好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
454.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
479.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那你勞動部主動是因為我們洪部長很關心這個議題你主動去找了一些的團體那我想知道是什麼時候然後有沒有做成任何的會議記錄因為至少這個議題在立法院是沒有正式討論過的也沒有專報也沒有委員任何的提案那只有一個可能就是你行政體系自己提出來的嘛那我今天要知道是勞動部主動想要大幅開放還是是衛福部覺得要解決少子化 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
484.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
496.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
提出了這樣的一個想法還是賴清德總統他認為這個政策好棒棒所以非執行不可你們是奉命執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
497.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
518.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
到底是哪一個答案我要跟你說明第一個因為本期覺得不合理啊不合理是你知道現行的規定是什麼嗎你家庭幫中現在才多少人嗎2000人你現在是要三個六歲以下的孩子還有四個孩子有兩個是六歲以下那這個政策是可以討論的我覺得是可以討論的但是我沒有看到任何討論的過程我們看下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
524.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
551.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
過去我們在討論這個80歲以上要聘用外籍看護工他是長達14個月的時間在委員會多次的審議政黨協商三讀通過而且你們有8個月的政策準備期我就請問12歲以下小孩家庭聘用家事移工從宣布到上路你們就是一個月的時間這當中你跟我說你有開過會是在哪裡開會我要求交出會議記錄啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
554.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
579.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
昨天 我再告訴你一件事昨天跨國勞動力政策諮詢小組的委員你有參與這個會議嗎 誰主持的 今天有在現場嗎不是我主持的 是我們次長主持的對 昨天就有委員提醒你們你們在這件事情上面沒有配套措施也沒有考量民間團體的意見還在會議上面媒體都有報 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
580.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
606.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那這件事情你還說你們都已經配套措施想好了如果這樣子那就那個委員不盡責啊昨天開會還在提這件事委員我們這個政策當然是有配套措施包括對本國工作者的配套包括對於一些服務品質的配套這個政策當然是有配套的你還要講服務品質這個政策在這個配套都在上個禮拜行政院的院會後的記者會其實有跟大家報告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
607.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
623.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
服務品質好我們來看一下再下一張服務品質這件事情這當中有非常多的灰色地帶一方面我們現在在修耳托專法我們對保姆我們對於托嬰中心我們有很多的要求跟期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
623.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
639.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那這件事情你開放12歲以下的孩子這個幫庸直接進來他不會成為照顧的體系的一部分嗎家長不會請他照顧嗎那這當中前面你給他受什麼樣的訓練跟文說明第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
639.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
656.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你的配套說得太容易了但是我覺得你都沒準備一個在外籍幫傭的定位上面我們認為他其實比較是家務的幫傭但他可能會協助性的協助一些家人的照料協助性的會有家人的照料可是他的確現在跟專業的保姆之間的這個職能是有蠻大的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
657.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
674.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個蠻大的落差包括其實一個保母她其實可能你的配套應該是告訴本席說你們針對這一類要進到家庭的你現在大幅開放她會接觸到孩子所以你事先給她什麼訓練你將來規劃的課程是什麼他們可能要接受哪些訓練第一個她在母國就會有一定時數的訓練多少時數 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
678.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
691.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
每個國家會不同那第二個是我們其實有規劃他進到台灣以後我想衛福部這邊會有給一個基本的照顧的課程有喔幾小時來部長回答 時部長回答幾個小時的課程還在規劃中 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
692.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
711.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
大概應該是這麼講就是說他不是取代專業的居家的那個保姆所以這個是不一樣的訓練那只是一些可能因為他在生活照料上會touch到會接觸到這個孩子他應該要注意的事項只是這樣所以聽起來都很模糊嘛我要直接講你剛剛講得很好啊這個開放80歲以上這個巴士量表你們花了8個月的時間兩個部位好好去討論真正的配套說是該怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
721.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
745.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你今天這個政策大幅鬆綁完全是先鬆綁然後再想配套事實就是如此真的不用再硬拗了那你就告訴我啊你們之前開了幾次會想配套如果你那個巴士亮表是花了8個月的時間請問你這個政策什麼時候跟衛福部開會然後去想配套我們私底下包括跟衛福部做了非常多次跟他們的次長做了非常多次都是私底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
747.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
760.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
就是對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對於對 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
762.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
768.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
各個職業的缺工數昨天你們開會還討論這個農業移工其實也是相對嚴格的你們還綁了他的逃逸率的KPI所以你只給了7000名這個是你在對於農業移工你採取嚴格的審核但是我們看到家庭幫優你現在是大幅的送綁我跟妳講為什麼因為農業移工的失聯率有9% |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
785.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
790.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我要提醒你的是這個失聯率難道不用做處理不用管理嗎你應該秉於專業你不要一下子是在業黨提的你就嚴厲的反對那現在是總統交辦了你就大幅鬆綁你現在讓人家看到你的雙標是非常明顯的能業移工他的失聯率的狀況難道勞工部我們不用跟農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
805.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
820.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
不用來面對嗎那你標準要一致啊你農業這邊還繼續嚴格沒問題我現在就是看到你獨獨大幅鬆綁是有一個12歲以下的小孩家庭的看護工的失聯率大概只有一點多%所以你是用失聯率來看囉我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
821.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
842.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我說農業移工我們之所以要比較嚴格的原因是因為他的失聯率真的比較高這件事情大家看得明白你這個政策就是衝突上路不然民團不會有那麼大的聲音嘛你的委員不會昨天的會議還告訴你說請參考民團的意見那最後我問你民團要求的政策衝擊評估報告你要不要提一定會提 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
845.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
870.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
什麼時候因為這個報告是在行政院的姓評會提出這樣子的要求所以我們會在下一次的姓名會來提出這樣的報告就看行政院下一次姓名會什麼時候開好這一個評估報告我要求給這個委員會這邊本期這邊我們要一份看你們徹底的評估報告好不好我只是最後提醒所有的政策就是標準要一致不要因為只是總統交辦的就這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
873.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
888.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
就是大幅的鬆綁然後找一個理由然後就這樣子大幅的通過標準一致就好的確很多雙性家庭是有這個需求的當然是可以討論啊但是你前後標準不一嘛是有這個需求我們是在這個需求下進行評估的好謝謝王育民委員 |