| IVOD_ID |
167946 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167946 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-19-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-26T09:42:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-26T09:52:36+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:26 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/62ea4221ea272c4eefc3529455b67c341db4e8dc12ee0255ec4551788d53590e15f464262b5c365e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳亭妃 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:42:10 - 09:52:36 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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林婷菲委員質詢謝謝主席我們請公平會主委請公平會主委謝謝委員長 |
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主委我想今天大家應該都會關心近期因為整個中東的石油危機而衝擊到我們國內的幾家石化供應鏈的部分那麼這當然有包含了塑膠、醫藥包材、肥料、建材等等那我相信這幾天的新聞報的比較大的就是我們的塑膠袋 |
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我們的塑膠袋你有去了解整個的狀況到底是怎麼了嗎我們有初步去了解整個塑膠袋的產業的現況包含不同的塑膠袋的材質等等各種價格目前我們是有初步了解但是因為這個議題目前就我了解經濟部已經在做市場全面的盤整我們會積極跟他配合你會積極跟他配合對 如果他那邊有發現任何聯合壟斷的聯合定價的行為我們就會介入調查問題是現在有查到是不願意出貨 |
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那這算不算聯合壟斷如果他真的有聯合集體拒絕出貨這當然也是聯合行為的一種這也是聯合行為但是我們需要證據就是說如果有發現中牌商如果集體拒絕出貨有這樣的事證這也是聯合行為的一種這你剛剛有說嘛要聯合那如果是一兩家呢因為他的物料夠他可能第一批他買的塑膠原物料夠 |
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所以他暫時那這樣算不算我們的重點還是在於他們兩極不管是兩家三家或是至少兩家如果這兩家彼此之間有一定的默契有一定的合意說我們利用這個機會暫時就囤積比較多那如果沒有合意呢你找不到他合意的部分呢我告訴你他為什麼要合意因為聯合新聞你必須要有合意才能夠發動調查所以這個就是他們現在人家說有花就有花 |
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你這個重點是合意嘛他們只要不合意你就沒有他的皮條了那我們合意的判斷不是直接要抓到說你們有講好還是可以根據一些間接的事證來推論間接的事證是什麼我實在對你們公平會沒有什麼信心啦好你如果不是兩方講好你說只要有一些事證 |
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能夠抓出說他們有合意的狀態這樣也可以好那什麼現象譬如說市場結構是寡占譬如說業者之間彼此之間成本結構差很多但是價格卻調得一致像這種情況都是違反廠商製品的主委我剛剛已經跟你講了嘛因為他這家公司可能他當時候進的塑膠料比較多所以他可以生產的比較多 |
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然後呢他知道現在的狀況只要他晚一點晚了一個禮拜你知道那個價格就可以漲很多他不用啊他不用跟你再做合議啊所以我才會講就是說同業之間理論上要競爭 |
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所以假設你生產東西的成本比對方低你為什麼價格要調的跟他一樣這個就是我剛剛講的所謂的間接市政主委這樣你可能沒了解市長這樣我好高興今天他要賣什麼東西如果現在所有的供跟需有落差那個價格自然就跳起來了 |
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不用他自動喊價他只要半個一個禮拜暫時出貨那個價格就自動跳起來了你知不知道這個狀況嗎因為公跟虛有了不一樣的敲敲板價格是不是自動跳起來沒錯但是我也可以想一下就是說假設我們在競爭然後我們彼此之間沒有合意我的成本比你低雖然價格同時都跳起來但是我可以不要跳那麼多 |
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我就可以搶到你的生意啊那你為什麼價格都一樣我告訴你差一個兩塊一塊兩塊有什麼差如果整個都跳起來市場價都跳起來了我們不會完全一致作為合議的標準對嘛假設他的提據是差不多這個就是關鍵嘛對主委難怪你們公平會永遠都查不到永遠也沒辦法查到 |
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我一直跟你說我發抖了我為什麼會同意我不用同意啊我自然價格全部都跳上來我幹嘛跟你同意然後被你公平會抓到說你們的價格一樣沒有那麼笨的吧 |
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有那麼笨的嗎我就跟你講在整個公跟虛有了不一樣的一個平台那當然價格就自動跳起來啦他只要晚個一個禮拜出貨價格就自然跳起來了不論說你漲了兩塊漲了三塊他都是漲他都是賺的 |
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所以如果依照你們這樣的標準你永遠查不到我們不會以價格完全一模一樣作為聯合合議的依據啦那只是說我們還是要看看就是說判斷他是不是有合議當然這證據很難找但是我們會用一些間接的事證來推論其中之一就是包含他這樣做是不是理性主委其實我為什麼會用這個議題其實你們每一次都慢半拍慢拍一拍之後你要查都查不到證據 |
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也查不到資料所以就算有人跟你們檢舉了因為你們說的要有人檢舉嘛你們才會去辦嘛如果沒有人檢舉你們不會去辦嘛好那現在這個整個事實狀況媒體已經爆得亂七八糟了 |
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397.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
已經搞得沸沸揚揚了那到底是因為真的原物料的缺貨還是真的在裝盤商有人故意把它控管因為經濟部已經有這樣的一個聲音出來而且也有查到意識到有這個狀況所以經濟部才要全面去盤查對不對是因為這個原因嗎那你們如果沒有配合的話經濟部盤查有什麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
406.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
417.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你們要相對的 所以我剛剛所講的 我講的是原因如果依照你們這幾個原則 我跟你說你查沒有啦你絕對查不到的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
418.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
442.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們業務單位已經有持續在跟經濟部那邊聯繫啦我們會密切配合經濟部他目前的盤整結果如果真的有所謂的聯合集體出貨拒絕出貨這個當然也是聯合行為啦這個我們會介入講什麼叫聯合拒絕出貨不會啊我又沒有拒絕出貨我只是說我用很多理由嘛晚一點我晚個四天晚個五天晚個一個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
444.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
462.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那請問這叫聯合拒絕出貨嗎我想這個我們在過去的對案都有處理過啦那我在這邊沒辦法給委員一個統一的標準的答案但是所有的聯合行為的這些問題我們都會在個案裡面根據我們掌握的事實主委我只是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
464.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
488.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我質詢公平會 我已經質詢到現在我在經濟委員會已經10年了所以每一次跟公平會好像永遠在雞同鴨講你們永遠沒有辦法站在消費者的角度即使消費者投書了 傳情了最後還是不了了之 就是查無實證 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
490.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
516.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我今天為這麼快的一個時間經濟部已經在查了我們希望公平會要有所態度不要是被動的如果你今天用你剛剛所講的那幾個原因我給你保證你一定查不到因為有發動法現在業者很聰明他不會自己跳入到你們所講的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
518.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
533.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所謂你們判斷是不是聯合的一些樣態不會所以你們每次也都查不到所以我們希望這個部分你知道嗎現在塑膠袋大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
534.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
552.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
過去雖然我們一直在檢縮一直在檢縮可是在檢縮到現在還是有些必須要的那這些必須要的到底要怎麼去做然後到底我們要怎麼去抑制 你知道嗎 現在一個塑膠袋多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
553.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
566.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個我沒有不清楚沒有找不清楚嘛而且呢他現在轉嫁到消費者身上以前不用錢的現在要求消費者你一個要多少錢而且價格都往上提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
568.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
591.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以這整個是一個影響鏈啊影響鏈然後最終是誰被影響消費者我想委員關鍵我們理解啦我們都有積極在對市場進行了解還有跟經濟部門合作所以我不希望在這個整個中東的一個問題當中最後受傷的是誰受害的是誰是消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
592.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
600.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我的關鍵在這裡因為一路下來最後他會要求消費者去買這個塑膠袋那當然消費者他需要他就要買啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
607.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
621.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
可是轉嫁就是在消費者身上我們不希望在整個我們政府的一個第一時間沒有辦法去控管而導致整個消費者來受害是這樣好 謝謝主委 拜託一下 謝謝好 謝謝陳廷飛委員 |