| IVOD_ID |
167586 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167586 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-22-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-18T10:22:07+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-18T10:36:18+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:11 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad60530584bfbb51f123f8d268b4a161496bd9854b2f19bd25f7000aec3227c6a1e6575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葉元之 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:22:07 - 10:36:18 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、 邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、 邀請核能安全委員會、經濟部、台灣電力股份有限公司就「我國核電廠再運轉之規劃及推動現況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【3月18日及19日二天一次會】） |
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這邊補充報告等一下在林怡瑾委員詢答完畢之後休息五分鐘葉元志委員請請經濟部還有台電經濟部台電機關代表請上質詢台謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
36.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
市長我想說中東戰事延續這樣子這麼多天而且看不出來到底什麼時候會結束所以大家都非常關心就是物價我先來問一下油價的問題因為一開始這個中東戰事剛發生的時候當時本來中油說要漲三塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
68.456 |
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一開始是這樣講的喔結果後來呢又說中油吸收六成只漲了1.5元那為什麼會出現這樣的轉換就是說感覺這樣子變來變去會讓大家覺得政府到底有沒有做好準備中油的油價都是在週末正式發布新聞報公佈這第一個第二個的話是中東戰事起的時候事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
70.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
量足價穩是一直我們的工作的目標那世界各國的這個油價波動都非常的我是說等一下我不是說不應該吸收我的問題是說為什麼一開始3元後來變1.5元就政府釋放出訊息我覺得要有一開始要規劃不是這樣子一直朝新立改大家也會覺得很怪那再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.911 |
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110.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
3月16號的時候因為那時候中油還是一樣平衡物價的關係啦所以吸收了9.5元那兩週就吸收了十幾塊錢那現在大家想要問想要了解的是第一個那中油這樣兩週到底虧損了多少第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
111.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
125.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
中油到底準備了多少錢要來評議這個物價因為它除了是在銷售這部分它有吸收之外其實它去國際上搶氣 搶天然氣也是有付出比較高的成本所以目前中油這邊的規劃是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
127.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
145.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
第一個工作人員目標先把我們需要的貨氣把它備足那第二個部分的話因為調足這些的貨氣確實是需要金額的那中油公司不管是從包括限金流量的控制包括投資性資產的一個回答問題好不好請回答問題那到底準備了多少那還可以撐多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
147.299 |
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176.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為他已經兩週就已經吸收了光是賣油品就吸收了十幾塊了嘛那另外就是去國際上面搶天然氣成本也增加但是三月份四月份都已經掉足了這個貨氣我不是說掉足貨氣市長你來備詢可不可以聽清楚問題啊老是答非所問我不是說質疑你們有沒有備足貨品我是在問說吸收這個價錢你到底準備多少錢那有沒有準備虧損多久那後面的因應之道是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
177.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
201.908 |
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是針對價錢的部分不是針對到底你有沒有補足貨源好不好 因為我們時間都有限不要一直答非所問第一個我有錢我才能買得到貨氣吧那這個是跟委員說明的我有錢我才能買得到你知道你自己在講什麼嗎你們先重複一下我的問題啊我的問題是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
203.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
214.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你的問題是說中油到底可以撐多久它現在一直虧損嘛 它現在兩週到底虧損了多少現在在整體的這個價格上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
216.314 |
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234.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
差不多33億左右兩周待虧損33億那接下來還撐得下去嗎如果中東戰事一直延續下去而且油價一定是越來越高嘛然後另外你還要去就是現貨市場搶天然氣那有沒有繼續要維持下去維持這樣子動漲油價有沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
235.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
254.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們協助他做資金的這個籌印之外包括他的投資的計畫這個部分經濟部也投資計畫我誰在跟你講投資計畫不要一直答非所問好不好這是大家關心的議題嘛一直答非所問我剛剛都好生好氣跟你講話為什麼你要這樣子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
254.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
271.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
沒有 因為委員 那中友公司的話 我剛剛講的投資計畫當然平益物價很重要嘛 我們也都支持你平益物價但是大家也很擔心說會不會 有沒有做好準備嘛這個當然有啊有 所以就是 之後都是會一直動長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
272.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
289.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
阿之後我們在中東戰事的期間都會中漲在亞營最低價之下我們政府還吸收了百分之六十剛剛我就講了我一開始的問題我就講到這件事我是問你之後嘛是不是還會一直動長下去 平易物價是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
290.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
315.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們要密切注意戰事的一個變化所以不一定所以不一定這個油價的變動太快反正就是說你現在吸收了你現在吸收了33億但接下來你會看狀況會看狀況但是你會做好準備對會盡量不要讓物價上漲對吧我們盡量控制在物價那另外就是台電部分台電因為去年已經轉虧為盈了但是中油持續虧損那台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
317.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
332.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
有一個部分轉擴會員營是我沒有看到資料啦好像中油賣給台電就是發電用用油實際上它的價格有稍微往下那如果說中油現在自己也都開始虧損了那是不是還是會用過去的方式在支持台電會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
334.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
351.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
其實中油主要賣給台電的是發電的用氣不是用油那天然氣的期價都有一個公式每個月會公告每個月公告的期程就會依照日本韓國JKM的指標來去訂定因為現在國際上面天然氣的價格也變高 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
358.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
383.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以中油如果把天然氣賣給台電那台電的成本也變高嘛所以那電價會不會上漲那月底的時候要開電價審議委員會嘛那這個部分大概的方向是怎樣這個部分我們在工作會議裡面會有進行敏感性的分析那我們也是會跟相關的委員陳述我們現在政府對於穩定物價的一個工作的重點的一個努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
386.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
403.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好 再來喔現在剛剛大家討論到的河山廠到底要不要研議啊台電要送那個再運轉計畫其實為什麼會這樣 很簡單嘛就是大家很擔心說用電會不會韌性不夠嘛台灣會不會缺電嘛關鍵應該是這件事情啦那昨天也有外媒蓬勃報導啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
404.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
422.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他說雖然台積電和政府官員一再保證局勢穩定可是台灣發電最大的隱患就是台灣對於液態天然氣異常的高度依賴這是彭博講的你怎麼能說外媒是中共同路人呢然後呢如果說電力中斷就會影響台積電 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
424.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
453.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我覺得剛剛我也聽到民黨的委員剛剛好像是郭玉琴吧我覺得還在那邊帶風箱要抹黑啊說前面的國民黨的委員一直在問提出再運轉計畫到底什麼時候河安會可以核定就是好像不顧河安要趕快讓他通過怎麼河安很重要啊國民黨都不重視河安沒有人不重視河安從頭到尾沒有人不重視河安只是在確保河安OK的情況之下台電怎麼樣可以讓河山繼續運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
454.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
483.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為補足電力假設不夠的話它有一個比較穩定的發電基礎是這樣那當時我記得我們之前在也是在教育文化委員會修核安法其實核安法我相信那個主管機關核安會主委可以慢慢點擊到台上來主委很清楚嘛核安會核管法的修法只是讓核電廠研議法規鬆綁因為以前規定如果核電廠要研議必須要在停役之前就提出申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
484.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
511.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那來不及了嘛所以我們把法規鬆綁讓他庭議之後也可以提出申請只是這樣而已但至於說要不要申請要不要合可那當然是政府自己可以決定啊台電可以決定要不要提債運轉計畫啊河安會可以根據河安來判定他有沒有符合河安的需求然後來決定要或不要這個都是政府可以決定的啊怎麼會好像變成在野黨不顧河安硬要什麼河山廠研議怎麼會這樣亂講呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
512.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
541.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
然後現在台電已經提出再運轉計畫了嘛這個台電請問一下你們現在已經提出再運轉計畫對吧還沒有3月底準備提出嘛有兩項嘛一個是營運計畫嘛能不能再營運第二個是老化分析就是河岸的部分嘛安全的部分老化分析還沒有現在目前提出的是你們到時候一定會提這兩個嘛對吧就是就算要再運轉也會提這兩個嘛對 檢測完以後那代表說台電自己也想要河山研議啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
542.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
557.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
如果台電沒有要核酸研議的話你提這兩幹嘛應該是這樣講就是說 占益轉計畫它實際上是一個整備計畫它實際上是有三個部分一個是組織人力的狀態第二個大概設備的維護的狀態第三個大概就是以前已經是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
558.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
585.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
營運的文件我怎樣去把他帶回來文件準備的但是因為你們做這個動作然後接下來河岸會又要審查可見政府現在是朝向看看河山廠能不能演繹的方向去做嘛應該這樣講否則你就不用做這個事情了啊應該是這樣講對不對我台電公司我必須要知道我現在對嘛我現在這個反應爐我跟你講如果說按照之前非核家園的立場的話你這個事情你都不用做嘛你現在做這件事情就是想說欸看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
586.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
611.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
會不會在核安OK的情況之下又可以營運又不會影響安全我們核三有沒有演繹的機會嘛你現在就在做這個事情嘛可是你知道嗎你們台電做這個動作民進黨的立委可能會罵你們喔因為我們那時候在修核管法的時候那個時候好像有一個什麼張雅玲委員啊就說藍白修核管法就是為中國攻台開後門我不太懂核電廠演繹到底跟中國攻台什麼關係啊范雲講說核電重啟有國安風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
616.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
639.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
結果接下來很可能台電都會變成中共同路人所以我在這邊建議你看連執政黨的立法委員都認為核三或甚至之後核二如果把核廢的乾除的問題處理好之後他們都認為說這個核安問題很可怕 中共同路人所以台電跟核安會要做一件事情就是你們要加強跟社會的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
641.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
655.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我看到政府一直講核電研議或之後的新式核能有三個條件嘛前提下才會重啟或者是使用新式核能三條第一個是核安確保第二個就是處理核廢料的問題第三就是社會共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
656.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
672.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那社會怎麼樣有共識社會共識就是你要告訴大家比如到時候核安會你看完台電的報告之後你看完核安沒問題你就要大肆宣導核安沒問題大家放心社會才有共識嘛所以第三個前提是伴隨著第一跟第二嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
673.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
693.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
還有大家對之前一直恐核廢料每次以前只要討論到舊式論事核電的議題就會有人在那邊講那些情緒性的語言什麼核廢料放你家 核廢料放你家所以台電你現在如果你要提那個再運轉計畫我相信有很多像之前的人就會來攻擊你要不然核廢料放你家核廢料放台電總之你家 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
694.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
721.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這種無法就事論事的問題那你們就要去跟大家講核廢現在要怎麼處理現在是核二核三又有乾式儲存槽有一些濕式水池裡面的人要幫忙移出來放乾式儲存槽乾式儲存槽放在裡面安不安全還有就是要確保那乾式儲存槽或室外的室內的你是要把核廢料放在那邊一輩子嗎還是實際上台電現在也要去找一個終極儲存廠運用現代科技或是用什麼方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
722.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
749.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
可以讓核廢料做最有效的處理這個都是大家要加強社會溝通的才會有社會共識啦所以其實我個人是樂見政府髮夾彎啦就是說之前是一直把核講到好像你只要主張核電你就中共同路人然後就怎麼樣怎麼樣但至少你們願意提出再運轉計畫這是往好的方向但是還是很多人會用那種負面的東西來做溝通那你們台電 核安會有沒有加強社會溝通有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
751.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
772.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
其實針對核廢料處理剛才委員講那些東西委員都有清楚抓到實際的台電目前處理的狀況表示台電目前的資訊有關於乾式儲存或是核廢料處理的這一塊其實這樣資訊實際上都是不停的在揭露的我希望能夠再加強好不好再加強好不好那核安會勒核安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
774.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
797.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
對於這申請我們會有好幾次說明會在地跟在地的居民做說明會還有所有資料我們都會上網譬如說他們在民主黨計畫台電在民主黨計畫我們會把上網然後我們審查意見也會上網台電回覆也會上網民眾也可以在網路上提出意見好 那請問一下主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
800.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
825.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那河山如果最後經過審查都願意再運轉的話那會不會為中國 像民進黨立委講的這就是為中國攻台開後門你覺得會不會台電你覺得會嗎 你是幫中國攻台開後門嗎我是做技術專業的 國安的議題不是我關切的那你覺得會不會有攻台後門 你不知道所以你覺得那個立委講的有道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
826.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
848.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們只管核能安全對 這個要問國安會 國安會來評估一下 到底核三嚴疫所以以後如果要再運轉的話 可能召委要請國安會一起來大家才能夠做更完整的討論如果你們認為沒問題 加強社會溝通 才會有社會共識 好不好 謝謝 |