| IVOD_ID |
167553 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167553 |
| 日期 |
2026-03-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-03-18T09:22:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-03-18T09:42:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4e26a61b53ad605336c770cbc92941c318cbbd4f69c426c0f13775304d9d746aa7c63afbaf1f10e85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳菁徽 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:22:34 - 09:42:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-03-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、勞動部、原住民族委員會、內政部、教育部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部及國家衛生研究院，就「如何精進偏鄉醫療與長照資源落差及落實《原住民族健康法》之困境，並對提升原住民族健康權益及強化原鄉照護量能（含提升機關位階與人力配置）」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【3月18日及3月19日，二天一次會】） |
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主席好 各位委員還有官員好我們請時部長請時部長部長好部長因為我知道您在衛福部已經服務非常非常久所以對於所有的煙害防治這些相關的法規您應該是非常非常熟悉那我們來看一下這個數據經歷煙害防治法的修法還有我們把煙捐調漲我們會看到說 |
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男性女性整體的吸菸人數是節節下滑這個成效是卓越的不過到某一個時間點他就有一點停滯了那你會知道說女性吸菸的比例還在近年來提高的原因是什麼嗎女性吸菸率上升的問題 |
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您說啊我們也特別注意到啦有有注意到就是說這個女性的吸菸率好像這個這兩年有一些爬升的現象我們再來細部的分析看看有什麼特別的原因 |
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69.958 |
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96.791 |
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所以現在回答不出來沒關係我先跟您說到最後整體持平這個也許是一個沒有辦法改變的樣態因為吸菸的人口就是有一個固定但是我們現在想要您注意的地方是這個女性吸菸的比例升高還有兒少您的報告已經延遲了一陣子了這個你們每兩年會做一次調查所以112到114應該要有但現在115年3月了 |
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第一我想請問你的報告什麼時候會出來跟委員說明我們內部的報告大概已經完成大概下個禮拜會對外公布那你要不要先稍微講一下數據看起來這個數字是有在往下有在往上嘛因為110下降 |
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116.078 |
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142.785 |
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如果你說下降那我會覺得跟大眾你隨便到你隨便問一個校園的老師跟大眾的認知實在是太脫節了這個多月委員質詢耶裡面牽涉內建部牽涉治安包括電子菸的購買網路上現在好簡單甚至他到便利商店只要包一包他根本也不知道裡面是菸然後48種口味都可以買得到他 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
143.945 |
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164.952 |
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關係到青少年的健康嘛兒少健康 校園的煙害防治還關係到這個毒品治安甚至是行車等等因為上次煙案新聞常常都會發現所以你的意思是說110到112下降大眾已經覺得跟他們在路上看起來不太一樣現在112到114又下降了你現在要告訴我們這個嗎112到114又下降了電子煙的青少年使用又下降了 |
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173.566 |
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195.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我請那個國健署省署長說明一下這個目前的調查報告是報告委員從我們的監測調查抽樣的調查的數據來看確實是在下降在國中高中電子菸加熱菸跟止菸的吸菸率當然下降不是那麼明顯就是可能從3.7下降到3.5你們是怎麼抽樣調查的我好奇問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
197.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
210.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們的監測調查有一定的程序那那個抽樣的話就會隨機的去抽樣你們是抽兒少這個族群還是你們有去問老師 國中跟高中生你們沒有去問老師我們其實是針對學生抽樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
233.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我問你小的時候你如果被發一張問卷問你有沒有偷抽菸你會寫有嗎在整個抽菸過程當中都會保護個人的隱私你要不要考慮換一個方法因為這個跟大眾的認知真的差太多了我們建議你如果你要去調查要不要把這個師長的數據跟學生的數據對起來看看謝謝委員的建議我們會納入參採 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
241.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
264.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好那再來我們再回來請教部長部長因為現在呢台北市有率先提出說他們想要效法日本可以在室外推這個戶外負壓吸菸室大概有兩個優點第一個是二手菸嘛你有時候走在路上沒有明確的規範哪邊是禁菸的地方那可能就會吸到別人的二手菸甚至是三手菸 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
265.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
再來呢我們可以把菸蒂集中管理不會讓清潔人員東掃西掃這樣子那前幾天你是在媒體上說台北市這樣做與法可行我們是想問您是對這個政策正面看待還是覺得說菸漢防治法您很熟法規沒有很明確寫不行所以你們可以自己來做做看 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
301.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
沒有 我講的法規非常清楚這個是在《厭害防治法》第19條第一項第4款就是可以由各級主管機關去公告哪個地方是一個禁煙的場所然後在這個禁煙場所 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
303.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
332.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
指定的這個區域裡面再去指定可吸菸區啦那所以按照這樣的話就譬如說你現在是在行人這個什麼步道區你就給他宣布他不是明定我們在院內防治法18條是針對室內主要空間去做明定這個禁菸那但是部分的室內空間可以設室內吸菸室19條的話多數是針對戶外明定但是保留了第四款由各級 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
341.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個主管機關再去宣布一個禁煙場所然後再配合這個吸煙區我幫你調出來這邊是第18條你剛講的如果我們要在室內設一個吸煙室其實你規定的是蠻清楚的你寫說負壓要多少換氣要幾倍滑門要怎麼做排煙口距離多遠這個你是有一個SOP的所以我們偶爾也會在一些百貨公司看到有這樣子的室內吸煙室但是室外這個是您剛提的第19條嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
363.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
386.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他現在是講吸菸區所以我剛剛問你的是說室外吸菸室是不是用你的19條這是第一啊因為你講到說每一個地方他可以有明確的標示說這邊是吸菸區另外面積不得大於室外面積的二分之一嘛那其實他們有一個統一的標準我們現在要問出來的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
390.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
407.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
之後台北市真的開始做或者是有人覺得台北市做得不錯但是他的設置的樣貌不太一樣你是不是這邊你要說我都正面看待各縣市怎麼做都可以取決於他們的預算或是他們的規劃或者是你要同意給一個指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
408.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
427.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
因為你剛剛說你會依照法規第19條但很簡單你看18、19差多少18併的很細耶19只有講說你要放一個標示跟不可以超過二分之一就這樣耶對 當時候在立法的時候這個都是在法規上把它區分出來因為室內的空間有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
428.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
451.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以你要設置一個室內吸煙室的時候呢會有比較高規格的設置所以才會有授權執法去訂定這個這個室內吸煙室的設置標準但是戶外的樣態很多它空間也比較大所以它只是指定一個吸煙區但是這個吸煙區必須要有管理分別在這個這個煙害防治法的第22條跟23條 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
453.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
474.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他都有規範你的管理設備上你怎麼維護那避免呢這個保護我們受保護的像是孕婦啦還兒童呢青少年的不要進入到CNC明顯標準所以你的意思是說我只是要問一個結論您的意思是說現行的法規已經足夠了你未來不會再另外出一個指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
475.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
500.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
假使各縣市實施的室外吸菸區或是室外吸菸室它看起來的規格不同 你不會再另外設執營了我們會看未來各縣市執行的情形如何譬如說它現在我那天提的很簡單的概念就是你這個吸菸區戶外這個吸菸區你可以比照這個去設置這個室內吸菸室的設置標準去設置當然沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
502.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
522.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你是規定 還是說你可以可以是大家都要叫室內這樣做那麼你現在來講呢這個戶外的這個指定的吸菸區與法是可行就是說你必須先指定一個區域是禁菸然後再去指定那個吸菸區吸菸區不能夠應該是這樣講啦其實我們只是很簡單的想要 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
525.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
536.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
請教你如果未來各縣市不同大家已經花了預算去做了嘛你會不會跑出來說不行這樣子不行你可能要依照我們第18條的規定市內的那些規定來做我們現在其實就是問你一個很簡單的問題你會出指引還是不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
543.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
566.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
目前這個法律上沒有授權啊但是如果說各縣市政府有這個需要我們可以召集大家來共事一下就是專家跟各縣市大家來共事一下說大家都要朝這個方向想要這樣做的話有一個您說的指引也好或者是一個那現在有一個縣市想要這樣子做了你要找嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
567.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
588.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
如果是台北市已經有一些做法他可以提供給我們我們來幫他協助看一下不是啦現在就是要問你說你會不會主動去找他們說你要怎麼做我跟你商量一下那看你做出來不要做出來中央要說不行要依照第18條其實我們就是問你這麼簡單的問題我們希望齁這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
592.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
607.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個禁煙這個煙害防治都是我們共通的目標啦所以如果是縣市政府有這個需要的時候都可以請我們我們會給他協助另外我們這個國建署也會找這個專家大家來討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
609.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
633.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以你最近有這個規劃會請這個台北市想要做的這個資料先送來那我們也可以幫他列為我們在討論的一個這個材料所以在這邊請教您一個進度就您多久以內會完成這個會議您預計這個月底之前就會召開這個月底 對下一個署長您可以回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
634.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
下一個是最近很多護理師在網路上討論的這個影片他們看著看著就哭了我們現在沒有聲音在辛苦的時候你要想到有一個人就算已經當到總統了還是很羨慕你們的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
657.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
681.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個是賴清德總統他1月24號出席健康台灣深耕論壇的時候講出來的話但當然後來根據審計部他有去調查他說實際上月投保薪資是3.8萬但在賴總統的眼中他覺得5萬很高他很羨慕他們可是護理師說這是他們不眠不休犧牲了很多生活品質家庭生活才換來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
683.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
707.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這邊簡單的數據不過相信部長你也知道嚴重性近期內有個調查針對五千多名的護理人員他發現未來一年內離職大概有45%那年資在五年以下離職意向最高他們高達52%那現在這個新的世代的他不一定是因為薪水他可能還要兼顧工作環境有不友善還有他的工時高壓醫療糾紛等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
711.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
724.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這邊只是很簡短想要問石部長兩個問題齁您最近接受媒體的採訪你有提出好幾個解方包括調高住院的護理費啊或者是集中症護理費要再提升但是我針對其中兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
726.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
733.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
覺得非常的疑惑也是網路上很多人在討論的一個叫做住院整合照護計畫擴大你一口氣從五千要加到三萬三萬請問你現在的規劃人第一個人哪裡找第二你床哪裡來你的空間在哪裡你盤點過了嗎你可以告訴我們你初步盤點的狀況嗎好我想要先替賴總統澄清那天的談話呢我在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
755.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
777.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
他主要是針對醫師的發言他不是說阿護理員員的薪水他很羨慕不是這樣他提的意思是說這個因為他一開始的志向是要從醫那但是因為走入了政治之後呢那麼就放棄了從醫這一條路所以他是針對底下的這些醫師大家的同僚那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
779.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
795.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這個抒發 說他很羨慕大家能夠繼續的同一的這個職職沒有 大家都歡迎他回來做臨床工作所以他不需要羨慕 他完全不需要羨慕你先回答這個住院整合照護計畫 你一口氣從五千喊到三萬你到底盤點過嗎 你這個三萬是什麼根據來的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
803.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
830.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我想這個住院整合照護計畫是對於這個減輕護理人員的負荷是很有幫忙那麼因為現在的高齡化的關係住院的很多都是老人家那麼他需要一些生活的服務照護那麼如果沒有這些服務的話呢那通常這些工作就會轉嫁到護理人員的身上所以在過去呢我們已經推動了兩年效果很不錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
831.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
860.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那只不過又與預算的關係只能夠推動到5000床那現在的5000床以去年我們編的5.6億來講已經用超過了所以我們才會在去年的這個預算裡編列的時候希望今年能夠擴大因為有很多醫院提出需求我們是根據提出的需求但是我們的預算只有那麼多才核定5000床事實上需求已經超過這是醫院提出來的所以我們是根據醫院所提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
861.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
887.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
希望開辦的那麼去規劃這樣加一加有三萬就對了但是你的造福源現在還有一個很大缺口根據不同的統計第一我先更新一下你一三年開始你是希望可以減少護理人員的流失可是護理師提供給我們的數據還是在流失這第一所以我不知道這個效果很好可能是局部有幫到忙還是怎麼樣再來呢當然是因為他的規模不夠嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
888.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
898.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
因為只有五千五千床而已規模不大我們現在一共的床數急性病床就七萬床教服員這個兩萬到六萬的缺口你如果沒有解決請問你這個三萬床要怎麼開出來我想因為我們這個三萬床剛剛提到這個是醫院提出說他可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
905.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
921.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
他可以開辦的床數只是我們的預算不足以給他所以我們才會編列預算希望說醫院既然他願意來開辦那我們就來提供預算所以只是這樣的一個沒關係我們會每年再看一下您這個護理師的數據但是因為這個預算沒有審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
922.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
941.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以沒有辦法執行我跟你說我們先看你還有一個叫做放寬護理師實習年限很多護理師在網路上討論說你要怎麼放寬護理師實習年限這件事情你有沒有初步的一個想法你是要怎麼放寬從本來是怎麼樣放寬到如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
945.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
968.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
就是我們過去這個護理系畢業之後那麼他要考照所以我們給他一年多的時間那你要改成什麼樣在這個之前就是他如果願意繼續實習那他就可以繼續留下來然後在這個多久以內完成你說放寬嘛多久以內我們當然希望他考上嘛所以就是繼續這個時間的話我們要跟護理界討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
971.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
987.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所以你講出放寬護理師實習年限你還沒跟護理師討論喔我是說要放寬到多久還沒有定案但是這個方向上已經確定你什麼時候跟護理師團體開過會我一直都在開過會我知道我知道我是說什麼時候討論過放寬護理師實習年限上次就已經討論過了討論過了就朝這個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
993.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1002.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
但是你們總該有一個討論是幾到幾吧連線上還沒有確認但是你在會議上提的意見是多久我沒有提哪多久啊我只是說要放寬那對方提的呢因為現在跟護理師聽到的聲音好像不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1015.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1032.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那哪裡不一樣我是說他們是反對有一些護理師團體他們覺得沒有被徵詢到意見另外他們也沒有很贊成放寬因為你應該是要提高留任的比例開源也很重要可是現在很多人是有護理師執照可是不願意執業嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1034.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1046.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我想這個職業的考量因素很多啦那我們只是讓願意留在這個護理職場的包含這些實習生也是啊也給他機會啊我們可以跟你要一下這個會議記錄嗎你上次跟護理師團體討論然後裡面有包括放寬護理師實習年限的這個照務師也有在跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1054.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1057.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
就很多在討論所以他們的意見是什麼 就一句話就好了來 我們請我們這個關於護理的輔助能力這一塊其實是一個比較整體性的討論那有分一些層級那譬如說有護理師的是擔任護理師的工作那護理師我們現在有在討論一個叫護理師助理那護理師助理就很像現行的有一個實習護士那這個實習護士就是沒有拿到證照的 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1082.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1085.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
在護理師的督導之下那他現在可以有15個月那這兩個制度要怎麼做一個整合就是說他沒有考上的但是他不用就是說沒有工作但是他做的不是護理工作是護理的輔助工作謝謝最後只問一句話因為這個是之前跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1100.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1122.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
邱太仁部長曾經討論過的,白班今天從我們這一屆立委上任,陳建仁院長就答應了但當去年年初就已經前任行政院長就答應了白班今天,今年應該就可以發出來了吧我們現在跟護理界的一個長期的討論,是說我們在那個三班會面比的獎勵你一定要去顧及到要去白班,現在先這樣做,所以白班等於其實是會領到三班當然這個因為公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1124.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1148.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
當時我問百般津貼但他回答是三萬戶分比給獎勵所以最後我們到底會不會發百般津貼就這樣而已我們現在的規劃就是已經以這個達標獎勵那多數醫院都已經發給百般津貼了因為夜班已經有津貼了所以他們的達標獎勵款那多數就是發在這個百般的所以你的意思是說你們會改成用這個對達標獎勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1153.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1164.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
達標獎勵來取代白班津貼就我們不去明訂白班津貼啦就是用護病筆的達標獎勵由醫院去發放他現在都是發放到白班的身上好謝謝主席謝謝部長好謝謝 |