| IVOD_ID |
165044 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165044 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-05T10:15:53+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-05T10:29:53+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0bb7d6ea348ff1d2590dfea48367fd9d5a7dc8d9023f59e5462d9096eb7c9b67a3b85e23f7c4a8dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱鎮軍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:15:53 - 10:29:53 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）
邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
（下午2時起。若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）
一、繼續審查
(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員王育敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。
(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查
(一)委員林倩綺等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二條、第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
【二、(二)及(三)案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書不予審查】【逐條討論】） |
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主席好 我們請彭部長請彭部長邱委員好 部長好部長我請問一下你在10月30號的時候說這個總統府氣候變遷對策委員會的會後記者會說最近綠能受到假訊息的干擾我想請問一下你講這句話的時候你覺得是哪個部分被干擾的 |
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第一個是說例如說在光電板我舉例我們在處理嘉義台南光電板受損毀的時候紅色的水然後鳥死亡鳥躲一下馬上倒閉就是受到假訊息的影響 |
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50.251 |
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然後讓大家對於光電板產生很大的恐慌那第二個呢水質會有毒損害那其實我們也都驗了那烏山頭水庫其實我們也都驗了而且我們是進行強力的我們要證實它是不是廢棄物可是呢有人卻把這樣的一個訊息拿來當過這個水質的檢驗相比這完全是不一樣的這個斷章取義所以這個就是一種錯誤的訊息希望部長你要講清楚啦不然我會以為說你說風電的低噪音是假的還是指光電板漂浮在水庫上面是假的 |
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還是這個颱風過後光電板被吹散了在餘溫上面的非光電的這個災情都是假的因為因為這種訊息現在你也知道您是部長你講的話非常重要所以我們希望說以後講這種話的時候把這個東西 |
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講清楚一點 不然的話這個聯想空間非常大嘛 對不對不過委員其實這個綠能受到真的是一些錯誤訊息的衝擊這真的蠻大的 也讓民眾有些恐慌這個我們也必須去正視的問題 |
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對啊 所以我講真的當然我的意思是說你還是要把它講清楚好不好 不然的話不然的話我們會搞不清楚到底你指的是哪一個剛剛我提到就是說現在光電風電問題都是你們這個 |
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這個綠能政策下破壞環境的產物那每一個都是大家看到露眼看到的這些證據那如果真實在這個災情數據都沒有確實傳遞的時候這樣會造成這個地方的一個誤解那我再請問就是說你們要求對地方政府 |
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178.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
要求一定的減碳的額度嘛那你回答記者的時候說對於縣市政府沒有達到標準未來計劃型補助款會在這個財政補助的時候做顯著的這個連結那我想請問一下部長這是什麼意思這個是我們那個氣候變遷對策委員會裡面很多的委員提出來的啦就是說因為我們提出一個減碳的目標可是很多的縣市他並沒有不見得那麼的認真啦在推動的這事情那他們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
179.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
205.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
要求我們應該訂出一些規範讓地方然後那當然啦後來當天有記者問我說那那你要求他他不做怎麼辦那事實上全世界大概都是一樣用補助的方式因為未來我們檢探會有哪一條補助目前我們還不知道因為我們採訪法過了之後一般性跟計劃性的用的方式我們還在學習當中那未來應該是計劃性的補助應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
224.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
有獎勵嗎會比較多嗎我們希望是要這樣你有賞就要有罰嘛你如果只是處罰的話那做得好的當然你要給他鼓勵啊但是我還是很好奇就是說這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
226.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
249.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你的標準在哪裡因為每個縣市的這個起跑點不一樣對 這個還沒有定啦報告委員 這還沒有定但是因為我們未來包含了例如說我們現在要推這個廚餘的生殖能的這個中心把它能源化或是肥料化其實那個東西都是需要政府跟地方一起合作的那個補助的比例就可以從這個地方去做連結這個是我們初步想到這個一個案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
250.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
276.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你們現在只是想法而已還沒有具體的因為是當天有很多委員提出來說中央跟地方都要一起來做不是就我們中央政府算出來一個數字而已那我這樣講就是說你現在只是一個想法那你沒有想過假如假如我們在2030年你的這個標準你的目標沒有達到我們環境部會被處分嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
277.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
300.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
呃 目前是不會不會 那你們自己沒有定一個罰則啊呃 你這個沒辦法定罰則你可以處罰地方 怎麼不處罰自己我們不會處罰地方啦但是基本上如果沒有達標我相信社會的輿論 國際的輿論都是非常大的我覺得還是 對啊你這個相關部門還是要有一個這個機制吧 對不對你對 我想對上對下都要一樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
301.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
327.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個負責的單位應該也要有罰則這樣大家才會有動力謝謝委員我們現在大概都用鼓勵的啦像有些縣市做得好我們就會補助的更多這樣好那我再請問你馬頭山麗湖廢棄物這個棄置案場這個當時我們的委員要去進行這個水質採檢那農業部農田水利署農田水利管理組科長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
327.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
355.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那個李元玉說他接到你們公文就告訴你們進行採樣要環境部準備儀器你們有接到這個答覆嗎包委員上一次的10月23日是我們次長因為我受到那個處理這個非洲豬瘟的議題農業部部長親自答我們都在處理開會所以我沒辦法去跟委員請假了還是你們兩個部會上溝通上是除了沒有沒有沒有委員因為那天的決議因為他們要採是對灌溉用水有影響所以那個是灌溉用水但是我請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
356.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
灌溉用水如果受到污染跟環境庇護有沒有關係那個其實灌溉用水的這個標準是農業部訂的所以農業部要去負責去採這個水質所以灌溉用水你們不管就對了對 我們是管這個營業水萬一污染咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
392.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
如果說有很明顯的問題他們就會來會同我們找到這個源頭嘛我們還是會去處理的所以我們是配合他協同他來處理那因為那天前幾天他去的時候他那個那個農業部他的特別有特別去說了那個地方的管轄是地方的農業局在管轄這個灌溉用水而且也報告環境部不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
393.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
如果說被污染的話其實委員 這個地方高雄市政府他們都已經進入這個裁罰還有他們調查的階段檢調都有在調查那有去採樣嗎基本上地方已經做過的事情其實我們只能遵照地方來進行那我們也 他們其實都有照這個程序在往下走而且都有顯著的採檢這個工作因為這個爭議很大嘛如果說你看到 如果說他你用肉眼就可以分辨他有沒有污染嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
420.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
448.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
沒辦法就像說我們嘉義光電板說那個水是紅的後來我們查出來是指腐酸你是查出來還是檢驗出來檢驗出來的誰檢驗都會送到第三方的檢驗機構去做化學檢驗是地方政府檢驗還是我們環境部檢驗這一次現在已經進到地方政府他去做檢驗了環境部都沒有去做這種事情目前因為這個案子是地方政府已經在處理的階段我們中央就不會去介入所以我覺得就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
449.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
473.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
因為當天的委員啦我覺得你們兩個部會農業部他既然有回覆你們你們沒有回覆他說要叫他們自己帶嗎包委員因為這個他是要這灘水這灘水呢這灘水不是不是不要管哪一灘水啦就是說為什麼移情沒帶我現在在問這件事情為什麼農業部說回覆說要環境部帶那環境部說這是農業部的事那到底是誰的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
474.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
496.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
它是需要去量那個湖裡面灌溉用水 那個湖的水那農業部去看了 拆開了之後所以農業部用看的就知道它有沒有汙染不是不是 那個是屬於那個高雄市政府他們的這個權責 農業局的一個權責不是農業部的農水署的權責不是啊 那回復的是農水署嘛 不是嗎是農水署啊對啊 所以農水署他的權 這不是他權責嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
497.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
520.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那個是地方的報委員例如說好有一個所以我們現在是這樣今天這個地方發生的事情只要不是我們管轄的我們大家都知道了可是就是大家都不關我的事就對了報委員那個是地方已經這個馬頭山既然委員會要去了嘛我想說委員會既然大家去看了是不是我們環境部應該要帶領這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
524.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
543.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
帶頭的作用這個部分是誰要負責是不是環境部應該就是要指示他們哪個單位要去處理那個地方環保局已經全程在處理的我們無法去指揮說地方環保局你怎麼樣你做的對不對當天學術單位已經進行採樣跟保存所以你們現在決定如果驗出來有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
545.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
564.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你們會怎麼處理保保委員因為他拿的是手邊的一個保特瓶所以基本上那個保特瓶到底是不是乾淨污染的我不知道這個可以給我們僅供參考但是如果要科學驗證有問題那我們到時候再請高雄市環保局我不曉得他們有沒有全程攝影如果有全程攝影你也不能說那個那個是不乾淨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
564.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
591.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
報告委員因為整個檢測監測是有必要的一個程序標準作為程序的不是說我們隨便拿個杯子量就可以了當然還是它有的儀器檢測啊沒錯啊對啊就是它只有蒐集水嘛水質水質很容易現在不是要驗水質嗎不然驗什麼它是驗水質啊可是它拿的這個水質的這個不能隨便拿我們喝的一個杯子我們杯子裡面要非常乾淨要經過處理要有消毒這樣的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
592.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
618.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
要經過採樣瓶要非常的乾淨不是說我隨便拿個我的好啦 這樣如果這一次採到沒有不準的話你下次提供一個那個保特瓶給我乾淨的保特瓶給我我們一起去採檢這樣就有公信力不過也抱怨因為這個都是地方的事務啦你不可能地方一個廁所髒了就叫環境部部長去處理這個廁所啊那是地方的事務啦最後一個問題就是說我們國土署這個國土我們內政部國土署有過來嗎來 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
624.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
636.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
請那個總工程師市長好這個國土監測系統裡面我拉了112年到現在數據這三年的異變點有46,032個那有21,490個違規點那2萬多個違規點裡面違規前三名的是哪些縣市你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
648.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
675.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個可能我們在聊我看你不知道我跟你講屏東3094件台南2716件高雄2184件剛好都是中央最呵護的民進黨執政的縣市那高雄不只違規是前三名在監察院去年在8月直接點名全國總共事件疫變點面積高過一公頃而且超過通報年度10年又還沒有結 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
676.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
705.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
辦結案的這剛好滿足這三個條件的齁這個全職的單位都是高雄市政府齁那這事件當中的其中一件是不是現在高雄的人造景觀美濃大峽谷這個會後我們再補給是你是不 沒掌握還是不敢說那一塊6公頃欸我們 我們有類入監測啦對啊 你知道嗎你們知道嗎有類入監測 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
707.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
733.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
監測不是監測你們不知道那監測來幹什麼這麼大的一個一個變異點他可以自動隱形嗎這我們都有通知地方政府你有通知嗎所以你們早就知道嗎但是這個大峽谷越變越大卻沒有任何作為那上面有交辦說你們不要管嗎沒有沒有交辦不會交辦這個啦因為這屬於地方自治可是你通知了然後也不管那那這個是監測來是幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
737.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
762.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那我再問啦 這個三年多裡兩萬多件違規 開罰了幾件因為在中央目前這個沒有這是地方的權責嘛 對不對那你們不知道 可是監察院要你們盡速完成原理違規 半截獎勵機制以及長年未半截的相關配套罰則你們還在講地方權責那監察院還沒廢掉以前 你們應該要尊重一下吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
763.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
784.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以後續我們有一些這個最終去化的一些規劃方案那這個院裡面也在這個對啊你們不要只看嘛不要只看然後不管不要到時候國土署要改成這個國土看守署我們後續在這個廢青瓦裡面也有做一些相關的這個配合修訂一些法則進去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
785.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
798.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
從法律方面去修訂市長請回 那我再請問部長那全國目前列管的非法棄置廢棄物的場址還有446處這裡面有沒有包含現在的高雄美濃大峽谷 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
800.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
816.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
有 應該是有啦那個包委員那個案子是你們都沒有作為嗎有有有 我們早就去這個案子是我們破獲的喔 委員你們破獲的共同破獲的那現在已經進入到司法階段而且在調查這個整個肉粽整串的這個人都要不要抓到 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
816.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
834.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
對啦 因為你們做了很多的那個什麼系統啊什麼導入科技啊希望你們查到了之後不要因為執政的縣市的顏色然後就會自動屏蔽啊報告委員 我對我的原則是不管藍綠白有犯罪的我沒有任何顏色 希望這樣子啦時間也到了謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝 |