| IVOD_ID |
165010 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165010 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-05T09:33:41+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-05T09:44:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0bb7d6ea348ff1d2441a3f9f483220a588b64aa779fa24d2e98bf0b6cf7b510465072d589d9c47d95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:33:41 - 09:44:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員王美惠等20人、(三)委員李坤城等18人、(四)委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、(五)委員羅美玲等19人、(六)委員黃捷等21人、(七)委員邱鎮軍等21人、(八)委員吳沛憶等16人、(九)委員林楚茵等17人、(十)委員沈伯洋等18人、(十一)委員蔡易餘等17人、(十二)委員郭昱晴等16人分別擬具「電信管理法第七十二條條文修正草案」案及(十三)委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「電信管理法增訂第七十二條之二條文草案」案。
二、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員王美惠等19人、(三)委員李坤城等17人、(四)委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、(五)委員黃捷等22人、(六)委員吳沛憶等16人、(七)委員林楚茵等17人、(八)委員沈伯洋等18人、(九)委員蔡易餘等16人及(十)委員郭昱晴等16人分別擬具「氣象法第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
三、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員王美惠等20人、(三)委員李坤城等18人、(四)委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、(五)委員羅美玲等19人、(六)委員黃捷等22人、(七)委員邱鎮軍等23人、(八)委員吳沛憶等16人、(九)委員林楚茵等17人、(十)委員沈伯洋等19人、(十一)委員蔡易餘等16人及(十二)委員郭昱晴等16人分別擬具「商港法第十五條及第六十五條之四條文修正草案」案。
四、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等22人、(三)委員王美惠等21人、(四)委員李坤城等18人、(五)委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、(六)委員黃捷等16人、(七)委員徐富癸等16人、(八)委員吳沛憶等16人、(九)委員林楚茵等17人、(十)委員沈伯洋等19人、(十一)委員蔡易餘等17人、(十二)委員郭昱晴等16人分別擬具「船舶法部分條文修正草案」案及(十三)委員蘇巧慧等18人擬具「船舶法第八條及第八十九條條文修正草案」案。
【本日會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(九)至(十二)案、開會事由二第(七)至(十)案、開會事由三第(九)至(十二)案及開會事由四第(九)至(十二)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】
【11月3日及5日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席 麻煩有請數位部部長國家資通安全院院長請部長及院長國家安全院委員長部長好 院長好 時間的關係不宜問候 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
39.999 |
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資安及國安賴清德總統強調的非常清楚也因為如此2025年行政院國家自動安全匯報跨國網路攻防的演練這個時候為了要做這件事情速發部補助了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
41.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
66.784 |
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國家自動安全研究院取得了一個OT醫療工房演練場域建置的標案這件事情我公開舉行過記者會國家自動安全院也有發聲明回應不過因為國家自動安全研究院的聲明老實說我完全看不懂所以今天必須要藉由質詢的方式來釐清幾個重要的爭點 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
68.549 |
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83.978 |
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這個標案有罪有利標交給大同醫護得標交給大同醫護得標裡面我看到的情況是違法的履約違法的驗收涉及到刑事犯罪行為了但是 |
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84.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
97.78 |
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我們具體的來看因為我那天在記者會上面公開請教的問題我從資安院的回應完全看不到任何答案我們就一樣一樣具體來第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
99.233 |
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118.382 |
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這個案子在去年12月25號履約期限屆滿前辦理採購的單位說廠商所交來的東西跟標案的規格相符合那因此陳鮑當時的院長說要辦理驗收我們來看一下 |
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120.117 |
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146.048 |
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那個時候簽准大同醫護辦理驗收他提出的設備有按照標案的規格提出的設備是新品嗎 是嗎是不是新品跟委員報告 那是舊品第一個它是舊品 那我的問題來了就沒有驗收那你們當初為什麼會上這個簽程說是新品辦理採購的單位看不出來它是舊品嗎因為 |
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147.75 |
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170.581 |
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請購的單位要先上千層說沒有問題了交給院長 院長才批辱你就按照你的指示來交給辦理第一個 他交的是新品嗎你說不是 是舊品嗎對 是舊品好 第一次復驗的時候12月幾號你知不知道第一次驗的時候第一次驗的時候你說是27號嘛27號就發現是舊品對不對 |
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174.884 |
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192.549 |
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來把你的資料看快一點時間的關係後面還有很多問題27號就發現東西是舊的對不對12月30號30號是第二次了啦第一次復驗對啦那個復驗所以是second time對first time是不是27號對27號是不是發現東西是舊的對好30號東西拿來的時候是新的還是舊的 |
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199.925 |
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225.789 |
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舊的 還是舊的嘛那我現在就搞不懂啦這個大同醫護膽大包天啦27號告訴你是舊的30號繼續拿舊的來他把治安院當盤子嗎30號繼續拿舊的來結果出具假的新品證明書出具假的新品證明書 這個新品證明書是真的嗎是真的還假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
227.458 |
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234.392 |
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現在我貼在PPT上的新品證明書你的檔案裡面應該有啊懲罰人員告訴你這個新品證明書是真的還假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
236.343 |
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259.924 |
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他有附新品證明書但是設備不是新品所以這個新品證明書是假的廠商出一個新品證明書告訴你是新的東西是舊的我看整個履約的過程我看的是瞠目結舌27號告訴你這個東西是舊的30號辦復驗還是舊的但是拿一個新品證明書來想要謀混過關 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
262.026 |
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284.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這膽大包天啊第二件事情採購標案上面規格很清楚網通設備不可以用中國製的他所教的網通設備是不是用中國製的 是還是不是他是美國品牌是不是中國製的美國品牌中國製是中國製的符合標案規格嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
286.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
308.856 |
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在這一項裡面有寫不得為中國對 所以符合標案規格嗎不符合不符合嘛 不符合你們為什麼後來還是給他驗收通過因為他在這個寫在文件裡面那我們驗收同仁沒有注意到用沒有注意到就可以用混的喔是閉著眼睛在驗收嗎來來看一下進口報單 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
310.296 |
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335.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
上面進口國寫CN CN就是China我們台灣鬧大笑話我們的速發部拿納稅的錢給國家資通安全研究院說要辦資安檢驗不可以用中國網通設備結果那個廠商膽大包天白紙黑字跟你說這個東西是China來的結果你們閉著眼睛辦驗收 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
337.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
358.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
閉著眼睛辦驗收耶然後現在說同仁沒有注意到對不起啊 院長我講話比較直接啊 要騙鬼啊要騙鬼啊現在要用疏失 沒有注意到來搪塞喔要騙鬼啊你相信嗎 院長 你相信嗎你相信嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
360.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
388.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這一點 審計部有在10月初來不用去扯到審計部啦現在你們部裡面自己當初怎麼驗的這已經是百名的驗收不實啊貪污自罪條例的重罪了啦驗收不實是貪污自罪條例的重罪啊你回去請教你們的法務同仁啊我講的絕對不會錯啊結果 好這些東西中國製的網通設備型號一片再變 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
389.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
415.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
結果呢不是由那個設備廠商出保固書因為出不出來嘛大同醫護自己出保固書你們閉著眼睛給他驗收過關然後我講的這兩件事情拿舊的充當新的用中國的網通設備違法違約你們還驗收合格也是對的結果我看不懂啦大同醫護跟紅旗艙 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
442.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
說我不實指控他說我們都是新的沒有使用中國製的產品來請教院長洪祈昌講的是實話還是謊話是我不實指控還是什麼還是他不實回應從我們剛詢答的過程當中到底誰說謊是我說謊還是洪祈昌說謊請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
447.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
470.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以他不是新品所以我們沒有驗收那時候延宕驗收到今年3月才驗收你不要避重就輕問A答B啦他說沒有使用中國製產品這句話是真的還是假的是真的還是假的那是美國品牌中國製對啊他不是說沒有使用中國產製品這不就是在說謊嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
500.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
最後的問題我搞不懂了出了這麼大條的包結果資安院從頭包庇到尾主席正巧我問最後一個問題去年年底洪祈昌有沒有跑到資安院找當時你前任的院長何全德敲這個標案 有還是沒有這個我不知道回去了解清楚可以嗎可以嗎我回去了解一下你回去問同仁嘛三天之內書面回覆可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
502.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
528.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
可以嗎 你回去問一下就知道了嘛國家資通安全研究院進出門 進管是應該很嚴格啊去年12月他有沒有到資安院找何全德院長喬標案因為我搞 我已經完全看不懂啦國家資通安全研究院我們大家都很支持啦資安很重要啊結果出這麼大的包事後cover |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
529.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
553.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
事後包庇到我開記者會繼續說謊讓人不可思議啊後來資安院有同仁跟我檢舉啊為什麼這個案子到現在還沒有聽權為什麼還沒有移送法辦為什麼還沒有解約上面有人罵誰敢動啊三天之內回覆可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
558.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
579.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好來請部長最後一個問題部長這個案子剛取答的過程您都聽到了我相信會前昨天治安院的同仁很辛苦啦包括速發部的同仁整理資料到深夜啊相關的說明都給你了現在我只有具體的問題要不要依法解約要不要依法停權要不要移送法辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
581.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
599.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
是這件事情是由審計部他在例行的調查中發現的那這件事情我們抒發部我們是認為說這個事情要不要依法解約這個法律上該怎麼辦就怎麼辦真的過去有該怎麼辦就怎麼辦嗎閉著眼睛混了多久啦第二個要不要依法停權 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
602.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
626.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
要不要依法停權該寄過就寄過 該懲處就懲處這個一切就是依法廠商要不要依法停權這個由治安院去處理由治安院處理嘛對 因為這是第三個 要不要移送法辦這個就是法律上就是如果有那個應該移送法辦就是要移送法辦應該啦 我現在直接跟部長報告這絕對要移送法辦啦 驗收不實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
627.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
645.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
驗收不死 剛剛詢答的過程你應該聽得很清楚啦我希望喔 依法辦理不要因為大同一戶新潮流的大佬洪祈昌前任的院長何全德就軟趴趴被人家摸頭包庇成這個樣子這件事情責任一定要追究到底謝謝謝謝委員 |