| IVOD_ID |
164987 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164987 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-04T15:28:55+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-04T15:45:15+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:20 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/92d7873cb56ba25f283d1c7593b90275278cc3fca10ad78dfefe51f9ff3b2e0851e308782cc5e3445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
郭國文 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:28:55 - 15:45:15 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院國民黨黨團擬具「樺加沙風災暨花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩災後重建特別條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「樺加沙風災暨花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩災後重建特別條例草案」，請審議案等5案。（10月31日）二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。三、10月31日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、11月4日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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10.574 |
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主席有請卓院長跟國務部長請卓院長還有國務部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
55.155 |
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郭委員好 院長好 部長好我想最近這個烏山頭事件我們大家都看到了老實講我對經濟部的表現不滿 院長因為反應實在太慢更何況我在10月9號的時候我就特別召開一個記者會要求部會出來說明清楚如果你是對的你就大聲講出來 除非你做錯結果一個影帶檢了超過一個禮拜才出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.331 |
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80.423 |
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整個政策都喪失了發言權甚至創造一個造謠的空間當然政策是可以監督的政策是可以被檢討的執政黨本來就應該面對滾動式檢討政策但是這幾年來我看經濟部的能源署是KPI部隊就如同環境部部長講的只懂得充量 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
81.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
106.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
不懂得去解釋政策以至於政策的正當性越來越弱甚至被汙名化所以我今天一開始就要跟院長跟部長來檢討這個政策政策附會總是慢慢拍這件事情從2022年的時候院長我再回顧一下早期的時候就有一個地面型的那時候叫大潮溝 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
108.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
131.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
大家常常說那個水面型的浮棚式的水面型的那個水面型的時候在2200公頃當中它做十分之一那面積非常的大當初在2000多公頃它會影響到生活也可能會影響到生態因為很多漁民在那邊弄我把它擋下來了我費盡很多的方法把它擋下來但是我們都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
132.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
150.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
在整個當地七股地區啊對這些太陽能光電板啊已經沒有辦法再承受了國家政策在承受院長站在你的高度部長站在你高度你當然覺得綠能很重要啊R100啊半導體要輸出啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
182.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
但是問題是你既然這麼重要你怎麼不善盡溝通的機制呢你如果這麼重要你怎麼沒有一個比較完整的一個總量管制呢你如果這麼重要的話那麼該環評的機制你早就應該進行啊不是嗎院長你如果說這麼重要的話你早就應該出來跟在地的居民講清楚這一個啊整個太陽光電板啊老實說啊現在社會的支持度啊越來越低 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
184.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
208.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
越來越低喔而且甚至大家說你都不要再來我認為依照目前的狀況應該要要求部長好好說明平常就要科普了平常就要科普必要的時候下鄉政策的溝通態度要一直有不要一直蓋面對這個問題我很想聽聽院長跟部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
210.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
218.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你們怎麼去面對現階段整個太陽能供電板失去震盪性的狀況底下將來怎麼推動綠能首先 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
219.717 |
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243.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這個委員剛剛所說的部長應該經常科普下鄉我覺得你應該也看到部長經常為了各種事情到各地方去包括救災包括地方的中小企業等等那能源的發展當然是國家的重大政策但是我們也認為應該跟地方要取得更高的共識如果對於地方的這個環境有所影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
243.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
272.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
地方政府跟人士都不予接受的话那这个事情起来是非常非常困难的面积太小或者是说它这个威胁性太大这个事情起来也不切实际所以我一直主张太小的面积地方政府如果不同意或者是说对生态敏感地区有影响那我们应该不要开发这样的一个能源开发的一个场域这个是现在的想法那未来对于 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
273.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
294.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
水庫 水面上以及敏感地區各種環境部有在考慮一定的規模以上必須要經過怎麼樣更嚴謹的環評程序這個我們都會來持續做我覺得該歌詞的要歌詞你們要來補掌請10月9號發生以後是基本上因為那個時候剛好連假但是我們也發了三篇的新聞稿9號 11號 13號 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
298.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
313.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
委員指教就是說希望我可以下鄉去說明我也會跑這樣來辦理第三個就是七股的部分我們現在已經擬定了就是61號線以西的話大概就是不會再開發了以東也要開發也要環境檢核 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
315.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
342.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
不但是整個61縣以西當初台南市就地方就已經決議說不再開發整個七股的這個負擔也過重也不應該讓單一地區負擔過重但是呢就這個現象來說你知道嗎所有這些太陽光電業者基本上都悶不吭聲啊他們給人家印象就只會賺錢啊政策也不辯護啦我就舉一個例子就好了印度你講話嘛 你想話嘛太陽光電 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
343.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
370.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
在那邊種那麼多電但是整個當那是颱風的時候你有沒有看過哪些業者出來救災有啦 事實上院長有去看那個你有沒有看到哪些業者在救災對啊 現在就是大家都說有事的時候你也沒有出來對啊在嘉義那一場我只希望他建樹在時間內把他的場域給他清除完畢只有多少有台積電台積電有出來幫忙一些學校的復建其他有沒有看到一些業者出面啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
371.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
394.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以基本上我們應該對負擔國家政策的地方你也應該相對要有國家的一個建設嘛你有沒有去處理有沒有去思考我好不用爭取一個極西點的國際燈塔老實講到現在懸而未決院長這是第一個第二個七股校區啊台南大學的七股校區啊在那邊荒廢多池啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
395.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
415.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那個應該也要思考一個國家計畫去彌補當地人的不平甚至他的整個公墓用地已經弄完了是不是能夠新蓋一個國家級的體育公園等等這個我是不能請院長好好思考一下讓承擔國家政策區域多的地方也應該受到國家政策的照顧院長你的看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
416.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
439.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
國家對於各地方的均衡發展採取的都是同樣的想法地方有需要那我們投入多少的力量是衡量到整個國家的財力但也兼顧到均衡發展那這個發展會帶動地方快速周遭地區的同時進展的話那我們把列為優先主義意思是說你不要把那一半放棄了要省一些技能啦這樣又聽不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
440.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
460.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
但是我們在雖然不幸台南這次遭受了很多的風災政府也投入了相當的力量我們現在如何把它復原在復原的過程當中麻煩院長思考特別預算有600億然後國家建設能夠進來幫他投入拜託院長你好好思考一下民怨非常的高啦民怨非常的高 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
461.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
478.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
更何況以這一次爭議非常大的過去沖涼所造成的違法事件讓整個正當性逐漸瓦解就這一次的整個水面型的光電水庫的光電的部分我去換算過全國的整個發電不過是0.02%整個裝置量不過是0.03GW整個溢度總共0.52溢度發電佔總體的部分只有0.02%而已總共供應14000戶用電而已只有14000戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
491.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
516.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這麼少 結果你引起這麼多衝突我覺得這個真的要檢討真的要好好檢討所有的店都是雞少成多 雞殺成多好 我就是跟著部長 雞少成多怎麼雞少成多有一個雞少成多你們就不願意做嘛我跟你說 之前我就花了一些時間你們把一個整個未來整個太陽光店的部分還有5G的缺口的部分我認為這個不用再衝了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
518.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
544.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
再衝下去的話社會正當性會越來越沒有真正能夠解決綠人的部分我之前就質詢過王美華部長興達廚藝電廠要轉成生殖能電廠的時候失敗後來就要積少成多的方式我找了郭智慧部長下去現在我多方協助協調農業部還有包括經濟部協調完之後明年就有一個新的生殖能源電廠要誕生了不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
545.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
564.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
但是可以累積如果以全國500萬噸的這個農廢料它可以解決農民的問題可以解決環境的問題甚至可以解決電源的問題發電的問題如果能夠把它能源化的話它最高的部分可以生產到11度而且有7GW的可能性我就不曉得為什麼一定要執著於光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
565.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
590.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
七高瓦就可以彌補你接下來五一度不夠的地方啊我們事實上我們都支持的沒有做啊沒有做啊院長為什麼沒有做你知道嗎我算過為什麼沒有做整個地方當中一下子又要經濟部一下子要農業部一下子其他的部會我真的建議那個院長你應該成立一個跨部會生殖能源的推動小組啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
591.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
616.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
成立這個小組當中把這個列為真正綠園的主要目標啦現在的那個生殖能就是早期發電現在的短縮價格是已經7塊多事實上我們都一直把它對對總共才0.1嘛那我意思是說這個東西的農廢料農民的農廢料也非常多嘛你可解決農業的問題又可以解決你綠能的問題缺電的問題這不是一舉多得嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
618.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
624.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
院長所以我們多元的發展綠能這都是其中的一項那我們如果可以開發 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
625.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
648.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
有意義的工作通常有困難性它雖然量不多但是對於整個社會的再循環再利用是有意義的總共有7GW的這個潛力總共有7GW的潛力所以我真的是跟院長說我們的綠能真的我們的能源政策要滾動式的檢討不然說你如果沒有滾動式的檢討你就變滾地式的被打 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
650.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
666.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
真的每天你要面對這麼多的能源壓力當中你去看都有這個可能性可是我去查過這個真的從來不是重點從來不是重點院長就我知道雖然多元發展現在都跑到地熱去了這個我認為才比較有潛力的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
667.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
682.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
甚至連廚餘它都可以能源化廚餘都可以能源化而且這個農廢料在一般的農民當中跟廚餘都是生活上所造成的最大的困擾這個都可以去把它能源化反倒是可以一舉多得了去懸而未決 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
685.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
710.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
院長 我可以跟委員報告如果是生殖能的發電跟地熱比起來生殖能發電它的可行性以及它的時程上是更可相信的更高 沒有錯 更高我自己評估過也是如此所以應該把它列為重點所以我真的是請院長跟部長好好思考一下把它列為重點另外一個部分除了我們面臨政策的汙名化之外我們面臨整個社會兩極化這一次我在旗鼓救災的時候就發現一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
711.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
726.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
很令人傷心的事情很多我們因為對貧窮中低收入戶的定義非常的嚴越來越嚴的情況底下許許多多的邊緣戶我們都還去媒合企業跟愛心團體出錢出力到現在還在幫他們修復房子喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
727.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
743.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
到現在還在修復房子主要原因是你看我們的整個貧窮的定義只有1.13%的人口但是在其他的國家不是16%就15% 17%不是我們比較少是我們定義過嚴再讓整個院長看一下右手邊的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
744.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
765.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
整個家庭財富最高的成長這30年成長了3.93倍家庭所得的呢這個最低的20%-1.1%人均的部分3.67倍 增加3.67倍平均薪資的時候多2.7倍股市更不用講 多了26倍但是呢 貧窮的人越貧窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
767.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
785.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
貧窮的越貧窮所以我是想說院長我們經過這十幾年的執政邁向第十年的執政的情況底下我們的財政紀律我們要更有信心整個目前佔GDP比的部分我們目前只有25.8%預計今年會降到24.3%比法定的40.6%老實講越來越遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
792.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
798.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那如何增加這個社會安全網增加這個社會的韌性跟認同是必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
799.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
825.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們請院長在這個部分多思考一下怎麼去面對這個問題來解決這個問題讓兩極化的現象得以改善 院長隨著經濟的發展檢討低收中低收的這個門檻線我覺得這是我們現在想做的也是我在跟一些部會在討論過程當中我們如果提高整個社會安全體系的時候這個線一定要往上合理的調升但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
826.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
837.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
委員現在所列出來的26萬只是低收啦如果我們加上中低的話會達到52萬如果再加上一些包括其他的社會救助的中低收的生活津貼等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
839.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
861.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這個邊緣保全會達到196萬就是我們政府的社政府支持有擴大雖然線是劃在這裡但是我們盡量把它擴大那討論這條線的時候我們要有一個十足的合理的論述才不會讓外界覺得說國家變窮其實不是是國家變富了 照顧變多了但是窮的人沒有變富 窮的反而越來越多政府的支持要增加那20%就是我們去累積出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
865.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
881.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們從廣義的負擔算出來之後這群人就是在那20%以下的他整個財富是買納市的30年 失落了30年所以這個部分我真的是看到這兩極化的遊行也請院長多費心好不好跟委員報告一下委員這個表 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
883.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
902.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
計算的是低收入戶但是我們在計算貧窮線的時候是以可自備所的綜維數你事後再給我資料我還有一個問題要跟院長講清楚一下院長還有一個少子化的問題少子化的問題現在少子化大家都非常清楚但是現在就一個韓國韓國為了提高生意率的話他投入的經費高達2160億台幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
905.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
931.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那相對於這個部分台灣相對比較少美國甚至有教育的儲蓄賬戶但是呢台灣的這個部分呢其實是有可能現在台灣現在ETF其實蠻盛情的有沒有可能從小孩子的時候0歲的時候到11歲的時候提撥讓一部分的預算常態性的讓他們擁有ETF到長大的時候當大人的時候他可以拿到人生的第一桶金院長有沒有可能這種可能考慮是 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
941.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
969.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
生小孩是國家的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
972.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
978.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好 謝謝郭委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請林德福委員質詢 |