| IVOD_ID |
164979 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164979 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-04T11:02:23+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-04T11:18:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/92d7873cb56ba25f99c0187a01192e15278cc3fca10ad78dc897fd6b01c6011f8403647dd55c224a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳思瑤 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:02:23 - 11:18:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院國民黨黨團擬具「樺加沙風災暨花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩災後重建特別條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「樺加沙風災暨花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩災後重建特別條例草案」，請審議案等5案。（10月31日）二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。三、10月31日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、11月4日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 有請卓院長卓院長備詢我今天質詢相關可能會有內政陸委跟中選會那請各位首長隨時stand by吳委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
23.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
40.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 院長大家辛苦了今天我就如何防堵中共製造的民主破口要鞏固台灣成為民主的堡壘就反借選反獨裁跟反統戰三個面向跟您分享我的觀點下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
42.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
59.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
賴清德總統的這一句話引起社會非常廣泛的回響我們不同黨但要同一國我想這是對於所有從政者的一個提醒政黨對內可以競爭但是對外一定要團結下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
88.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所以說國民黨新任的黨主席鄭麗文女士這一番受訪的時候說出的普丁不是獨裁者引起全球的話然院長您怎麼看民主有普世的一種標準跟價值獨裁也有從歷史上到現在一種很固定的印象跟認定那我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
88.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
116.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
沒有經過人民普選而且能夠長期擔任一國元首長達一二十年 這樣子即將超越史達林成為俄國在位最長的完全不是民主國家或民主政治民主選舉應該有的一個結果所以如果自己認為他不是獨裁其他的人不這麼認為只有自己認為這個人不是獨裁那個認為他不是獨裁的人有獨裁的心態 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
116.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
144.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
是 您說得很好我這裡推薦一本書顯然鄭麗文主席應當沒有讀過叫做《獨裁者的進化》《獨裁者》為了讓威權的復辟不斷的進化升級去包裝用假民主 偽民主的方式去達到他們破壞民主人權的政治目的所以我要向國民黨新任的黨主席喊話 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
145.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
159.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
如果在您眼中認為普丁不是獨裁者那為什麼在自由民主而且選舉這麼透明公開的台灣賴清德成為你們國民黨人眼中的獨裁呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
183.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我更要問如果鄭麗文女士國民黨人認為普丁不是獨裁者那麼我要問那習近平中國完全沒有民主選舉的他就更是獨裁者了不是嗎我們看下一頁喔等一下讓主委你可以補充普丁跟習近平有非常多本質的相同之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
212.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
都是獨裁國家遂行的假民主甚至是沒有民主而且在位的任期無限的延長用不同的方式去暗殺政敵或者是整肅異己普丁或習近平不管用發動戰爭或是威嚇發動戰爭就是為了轉移內政的壓力以及他們在操作要重返大國榮光的這個迷思當然還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
232.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
普丁侵略了烏克蘭中國想要侵犯台灣都是藉由操弄民主主義要合理化他們的不法侵略的行為而在外交的策略上普丁大打反北約的擴張而在印太地區習近平 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
232.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
241.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
有系統性的來操作以美論包括在台灣有大量的協力者所以說以這些本質看來我要在這裡說強權絕對不是真理 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
245.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
262.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
民主是不容悔棄而和平唯有在民主的前提自由跟人權的基石之上和平才能維繫才能存在所以回到賴清德總統說的我們不同黨但是同一國 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
263.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
290.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
國民黨作為台灣最大的在野黨其實我樂見民主政黨政治的競爭我也不希望民進黨成為台灣唯一的一個政黨我們不要走回一黨獨大的舊思維唯有政黨的正向競爭才能夠讓台灣的民主更為優化跟健全所以我像甄理文女士的發言我表達非常深切的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
292.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
297.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
不滿或者是遺憾不要站錯邊不要說錯話不要挺錯人 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
301.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
330.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
而就這個部分下一頁中國無孔不入無所不在的不管是借選不管是統戰法務部我現在在司法法治委員會這是我長期追蹤的命題法務部整理了五種中國滲透的方式包括科技掏空借選滲透發展在台的組織滲透黑幫滋擾社會以及滲透國會透過宗教學術藝人民代黑道網紅等等的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
331.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
358.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
在兩位看來我們做好萬全的準備了嗎主委謝謝委員剛剛您的論述我都非常的支持對於中共對於我們的各種統戰滲透分化可以說是無所不在無所不用其極您剛剛所說的確實我們現在各部會都在積極的落實賴總統所提出這個反 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
360.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
379.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個中國統戰威脅的這些十七項的各種的這些行政措施還有相關的立法不管是魔法執法都會陸續的推出來為了我們國家的安全跟社會的安定要請我們朝野立委來支持我們來推動這十七項的措施每個會期都應當是國安會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
382.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
397.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
下一頁我剛剛說的這幾項中國慣用的手法當中我先從民主的借選用民主破壞民主的這個方式來就教於兩位其實民進黨長期是中國借選的最大受害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
398.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
414.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
因為中國藉由操作台灣的民主選舉要扶植他的代理人甚至是他希望能夠創造所謂的愛國者治台所以2024年大選期間這是最高檢察署的統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
416.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
443.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
2024總統大選有117件反滲透法的借選案件受偵辦的人是高達287人不管是用網路的選舉賭盤不管是用境外資金來借選或是認知作戰一條龍這都是現在進行式我要強調民進黨是最大的受害者但是呢國民黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
445.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
470.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
為了中國選擇了他的愛國者協力者很顯然所以在這段時間介入國民黨的選舉也前所未見我就不再贅述連國民黨人都跳腳了下一頁世界各國各種方式的借選中國是無所不用其極而台灣是每一種方式的集大成都在台灣影響著滋擾的我們的民主選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
471.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
496.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以說呢我們要防堵我們要防治剛剛主委說我們會有很多反借選的法案但是我們的國安法案還被阻擋的同時再也委員的反國安法案以及駐借選的惡法已經上路了我現在身兼民進黨政策會的執行長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
498.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
513.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我羅列出整理出五大惡法就是中國借選可以大開後門的惡法包括不在即投票會傷害台灣的選舉公正性包括中配六改四涉及洗人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
515.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
544.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
選罷法民調禁制期10天變3天會干擾投票公投綁大選製造選務的混亂還有最後一個就是衛星廣播電視法的修法取得讓中天類似的媒體取得萬年執照有利於中國操作選前的認知作戰這些五大惡法你們有什麼因應院長如果左翼來看不在即投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
545.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
574.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們認為目前來看我們沒有那樣的經驗我們可以嘗試從對市的公投來加以延期如果來主舉行況且如果每一個縣市都可以讓不同的人去投各種不同的對人的選舉票那一個投票所會多複雜所以選務的複雜性我們需要練習先從對市的公投更可能產生到對這個秘密投票的一個破口 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
575.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
601.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
如果只有一個人選擇在某一個縣市去投他一張票那麼他投給誰將暴露無遺這個都是要事先規劃的那我就教於主委喔因為國民黨委員已經開始操作說不再去投票我們只限境內啊可是如果這樣的話就像我們民團說的台氣連動員台鄉很方便在金馬投票他的那個成本更低啊或者是在美國就發生過 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
602.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
626.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
美國被中國介入大量的製造假駕照在2020的總統大選的時候幫助中國的僑民投票來協力美方所青睞的那個候選人所以在野黨的委員所說的這個謬論說都是在境內實施所以不會有影響不會有安全性公正性的質疑來主委你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
627.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
649.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
是 跟委員報告有關於不在籍投票這個制度剛剛院長也講了這個我們沒有實施的經驗但是它極有可能被對岸用來各種的借選的操作這個部分我們都願意社會有更多的討論如果有陸委會以我們的經驗的話我們也願意提供我們的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
652.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
673.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
就算這個制度上路呢也不要讓中國有借選的這個後門也好大門也好都不應該我想當務之急國會全力要來反制這樣一個討論因為如果我是支持行政院的版本公投先行然後用移轉投票的方式讓台灣有一個練習的機會選務的作業能夠上軌道之後再來進行對人的選舉下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
678.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
703.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
但是有一個條件非法借選我們必須有效防治絕不寬戴這個前提非法借選包括中國的借選過去委員說過我們都深受其害那時候社會有一部分人不相信我想到今天為止大家都相信了無論是受力或受害的人都相信中國借選確實有它存在的事實所以我們必須對於非法借選要有力強制之後我們才能往下去思考任何的政策改變好 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
704.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
721.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
昨天呢發生的這個事情在龍山寺前公然的買賣個資其實在我看來這就是讓我聯想到美國2020年總統選舉的時候中國透過製造大量的假駕照來幫助中國僑民去偽造投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
722.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
737.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
不可不慎我們正發生這樣子的事情我們要防躲非常同意院長所說的如果在中國借選的疑慮未解之前不應當貿然來推動不在即投票在台灣下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
738.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
756.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
另外一個對於民調的禁制期10天變3天其實過去有很多的案例包括2024年的總統選舉透過9次的假民調然後去挺侯友宜另外張顯耀也被法辦透過假民調拉抬郭台銘中國在 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
757.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
782.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
遂行者協力者他親愛的人能夠當選那當然也是意圖使他不支持的候選人使人不當選這些都有我們劣跡斑斑可考的這些經驗你們同意嗎因為全球66個國家都有民調禁制期10天也是不論藍綠誰執政都是10天嘛要改為3天你們認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
784.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
800.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
台灣的民主政治發展到現在是一個國人高度參與在選舉那段時間是非常熱情的為了大家能夠在熱情之前有一段思考期我們過去這幾年下來我覺得執行的過程還算是能夠讓選舉回歸到正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
802.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
830.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
照這樣的經驗目前要改變我認為應該看我們過去幾年他難道出現了什麼弊端嗎如果10天的冷卻期沒有產生任何的弊端那驟然改變他又會產生任何不好的影響應該要同步來考量我希望下一頁我們要為台灣的民主避險為台灣的安全要拆淡所以說這五大惡法不在即投票中配六改四縮短民調禁制期 |