| IVOD_ID |
164967 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164967 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-03T12:02:56+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-03T12:13:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/64fc785e736c17e9a99193d7de5fad9f926af2ae94b9c1ca0effb6840739c0eccba6a9359c3954295ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:02:56 - 12:13:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「近年國軍各項軍事工程落後及軍、商購案延宕原因分析及具體應處作為」，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席以及各位先進有請我們的顧部長請顧部長這個如果其他的長官有需要可以去幫忙我們看今天的主題當然就是我們向美國買的武器沒有進來那現在有三項延宕25案有6千多億之多 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.383 |
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那現在來講 我跟委員報告 沒有二十五萬多延宕啊二十五萬裡面 有些延宕的金額六千億 就兩百億美金左右嘛沒有 不是剛剛已經跟委員報告過 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.376 |
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61.414 |
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這個六千五百四十億美元這個數字是一個錯誤的數字卡郭研究所他統計的這些我們的那證據是多少 你就跟我們講證據是多少目前我們所有的二十五個案項是三百餘億是總值三百餘億台幣還是美金美金 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
61.974 |
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64.298 |
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美金300餘億就9000億喔但是這些案子比如像F16V兩棟的案子竟能提升1370愛國者三行第一次籌購的1790這細節不講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
79.178 |
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81.939 |
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我跟你講 這三項是不是確定 海馬士 延蕩 AGM-154C 飛彈 F-16V這三項確定吧現在就是三項 AGM-154C 跟 F-16V 這個確定吧跟 MK-48 這個三項 剛剛已經跟委員有報告他總體的發價值 發價值是82億8千多萬美金 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
103.001 |
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112.263 |
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那就是還是兩千多億啊齊東當然最重要就是F16是兩千四百七十二億多F16V原來要什麼時候交貨呃 2020原本是2023年到2026年2023開始加第一架嘛齁那現在第一架現在在哪裡部長要不要解釋在哪裡 第一架在哪裡現在在那個美國對 格陵威爾生產線上面在什麼州啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
133.702 |
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155.236 |
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藍卡藍卡還在生產 出來沒有已經組完了已經組裝完畢組裝完畢 測試沒有呢現在就在等後續的系統測試跟飛測那一架什麼時候可以飛來台灣大家關心這個我想就是要等到這個測試如果能夠順利完成大概什麼時候我們現在沒有辦法確定這個確切的時間那個部長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
168.006 |
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我們都知道啦 外面那時候你出任國防部長的時候請問你什麼時候出任的什麼時候出任國防部長去年的520嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
168.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
191.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
去年的五二零你出任國防部長外面就一台問號為什麼你到處都你這個天才啊這個這個是全方位的人才啊什麼都可以做嘛黨長會也可以做這個不當黨省可以做金管會主委可以做什麼都可以做那其中其中有一個原因很重要有一個原因就是因為你的專長就是法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
193.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
207.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
大律師或是以前叫御用律師律營的御用律師那你用律師的專長看什麼因為未來賴總統已經知道了未來他要跟美國大量採購武器 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
208.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
220.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
就是說合約很重要什麼履約很重要你就是因為你的法律可以這方面來罩得住可是你前幾天在運會的時候我對你很失望啊你回答說 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
224.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
237.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
沒有辦法任何球場 也沒有球場 什麼都沒有人家要你當部長 就是在法律方面你難道不能夠說 跟他argue一下美國爸爸跟我們講的 台灣兒子統統接受什麼也不敢講話 請問你在面對美國一而再再而三的delay你可以做什麼事情 你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
247.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
265.798 |
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跟委員報告 第一個我想您剛剛忘了提到 我也有在國安會待過四年四年 對 也是法律 因為你法律背景嘛國安會有管的總統的一個諮詢機關你要不要看一下人家Google怎麼看你就是因為你法律鎮住各方 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
266.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
291.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
法律 他相信我對各方的這個評論沒有什麼特別的意見但是我想我有在進到國防部之前有過一些相關的歷練這是第一點 第二點F16B的這一個部分是屬於軍購案那軍購案就是國家對國家 政府對政府那這個部分依照發價數的標準條款的相關規定就是說有任何爭議要來協商解決你有沒有協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
292.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
297.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那我們就是有沒有協商當然有進行協商啊不然的話問題是還是一直delay啊delay你沒有賠償條款沒有補償條款什麼都沒有所以我就問你交貨日期有沒有改過交貨日期改過沒有改了幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
310.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
337.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我想我們都一直是在2026年之前預計要能夠完成66架的交運這一個部分到今天並沒有改變這個交運的時間表那我們已經也一直報告就是說現在美國的Greenway的產線都是在組裝我們的這個戰機那在線的組裝有總共有50架正在組裝那已經也有組裝完成等待測試飛行 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
338.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
365.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我請問你那個錢現在在哪裡我們匯出去的錢在哪裡我們匯出去的錢有的是在FRB帳戶裡面在美國聯邦儲備銀行有的是附到信託的帳戶裡面在美國聯邦儲備銀行對 那個是我們的帳戶啊那是我們的帳戶 匯到那裡給美國沒有也有已經交付給這個美國政府的好 那個是多少這個部分可能要查一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
366.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
370.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
多少 要再講一下嗎多少多少錢多少 那講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
382.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
396.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們結匯出去大概47億多美金然後交付廠商大概10億美金交付廠商是 Lockheed Martin 洛克希德馬丁所以我們的帳戶交給廠商10億美金就這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
401.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
408.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以這個就問顧部長啊交貨給他 他都沒有給我們這個飛機我們本來就有一個在做這個前置的備料跟生產線開始的時候就依照合約本來就有一個交付那後來在113年的第一季的時候因為他沒有實際交我們就停戶了來 部長 這個審計部都有報告了審計部對你們也是不滿意的我就問一個我就做糗給你啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
429.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
441.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
台灣這裡 我們國會議員提出一個東西我們可以不可以因為他予以再三的delay所以我們提出一個賠償方式那就是說 我繼續跟你買飛機你給我F-35更好的F-35 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
446.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
453.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我想軍購案都有一定的政府跟政府協商的一個程序政府跟政府買F-35啊你給我延遲這麼久你給我其他F-35啊F-35你敢不敢提出來我們會依據我們的國防這個防衛戰力的一個需求我們會來適時的跟美方做進行討論檢討但我沒有辦法在這邊跟您承諾什麼好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
467.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
495.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那最少你可以說 那我總是要賠償可以叫他賠償一點不要說賠償了 補償一點啦 補償補償一點 因為你是這方面專家啊你律師罪會討價還價的 來來來可以嗎我們在美國對外的軍售體系裡面他是沒有這個機制的他本身是一個代替其他國家政府去購買那你的意思就是美國反正美國爸爸怎麼樣把你抵蕾我們就鼻子摸一摸 這樣而已變成這樣而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
498.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
513.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
跟委員報告我想軍購案的這個部分剛剛也講了二十五案裡面也有很多項都是已經交付那也或者是在交付當中的那所以相關延宕的部分我們也跟美國招待這個會議來進行管制我們會來部長部長我再問你一個最後一個問題齁萬一明年底也沒辦法交付勒你怎麼辦相關會依照預算法的相關規定報請行政院來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
523.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
527.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
對美國啊 不是對我們自己啊你說對我們自己 對美國怎麼辦他沒辦法交貨啊到2026年底沒辦法交貨怎麼辦我想我們還是會跟美方進行一個密切的溝通他等於沒有講 我要跟你強調今天最新的消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
544.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
553.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
美國國防部長赫格賽斯說美中關係史上最好而且川普說了習近平答應他任內川普任內不會打台灣也就是2028以前台海不會有戰爭所以我預估大概川普卸任之前這筆貨才可能交大概延到2027這個機率很高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
568.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
570.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
結果你都沒有那個因應啊所以我們要武器啊既然要實力我們要武器啊對不對所以這個我最後就一句話我覺得部長你要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
585.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
588.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
對外面要有一點宣示的東西啦你會找你當部長大家都知道一個原因之一就是你是大律師啊是不是大律師就會討價還借啊結果你對美國來講我看到的是束手無策啊什麼都沒有啊這才是我們比較難過的地方啦部長你要加油好 謝謝 |