| IVOD_ID |
164855 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164855 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-30T09:43:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-30T09:57:13+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/480bc0daa4347f00a9a222867877b7af55b9b7d9df2795fe06dd83a37e4b4549004998842fe26b305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱鎮軍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:43:27 - 09:57:13 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）
邀請衛生福利部部長、農業部、財政部、交通部、經濟部、數位發展部、海洋委員會海巡署就「如何精進海外小型包裹夾帶肉品之查緝與防堵，持續強化阻絕疫情於國門，同時優化國內後續對於非洲豬瘟防疫」提出專題報告，並備質詢。
（下午2時起。若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）
一、繼續審查行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員廖先翔等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」、委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」、委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」、委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」、委員李昆澤等27人、委員黃秀芳等21人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員翁曉玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」、委員范雲等18人、委員劉建國等17人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」、委員沈發惠等18人、委員王育敏等19人、委員王育敏等25人擬、委員郭國文等17人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」、委員郭昱晴等17人、委員羅廷瑋等18人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
二、審查
（一）委員王正旭等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員吳沛憶等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第九條條文修草案」案。
（四）委員林月琴等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條修正草案」案。
（五）委員林淑芬等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（六）委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（七）委員徐富癸等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（八）委員黃捷等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（九）委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（十）委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
【二、(三)至(七)案，如經復議則不予審查；二、(八)至(十)案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書不予審查】
【逐條討論】
【10月29日及10月30日，二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
2.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
6.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
主席好 我們請農業部那請署長 房檢署署長我也好 署長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
17.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
37.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
昨天我在這邊問了陳俊吉部長的時候他很肯定的說非洲豬瘟不是本土的所以就是從邊境放進來的那既然是從外面來的那就三個方式嘛第一是人帶進來第二是貨物包裹寄進來第三是走私進來那還有其他可能嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
39.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
48.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
目前這三個也是我們的原因之一我知道會有其他的方式嗎不會是鳥帶進來的吧不會 它跟禽流感不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
50.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
77.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所以就是這三個 還有嗎目前我們追查的方向也是如此那從2005年後國際通報發生非洲豬瘟的有83個國家那最近三年曾發生非洲豬瘟的國家也有75個那我想請問一下我們農業部現在認定非洲豬瘟高風險的地區有幾個我們認定的是有39個為什麼只有39個 其他75個我們最近三年有75個為什麼只有認定39個 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
80.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
93.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
其實我們是依照國際疫情的趨勢去做滾動的檢查那什麼叫趨勢咧 他們這些有發生不就是高風險地區嗎我請副組長說明一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
93.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
122.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
是 各位委員報告我們都會即時的就是搜尋國際組織的網易還有各國的一些疫情的資訊來了解說在哪些國家發生疫情還有哪些國家可能會途經這個地區作為一個中轉旅客中轉的地區來輸到台灣來所以我們這是一個滾動檢討的一個過程對 我現在比較好奇的就是說這些75個國家有這個3年內有這個案例那為什麼我們只追蹤到39個這個原因在哪裡 為什麼只有39 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
123.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
126.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
其實39個國家是作為裁罰的依據那其他75個減掉39都大概是31 36 36個他不會裁罰意思是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
138.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
163.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
有公告一個非洲豬瘟的非疫區的國家的名單那它就發生啊那為什麼它是非疫區咧你跟我們講要經過我們的書面資料的審核跟必要時做實地評估通過之後才會列在農業報告上你評估的標準是什麼就我們有一個專家學組的委員會會先審視它的書面資料那要多少才要發生幾個案例才能夠算是高風險地區 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
165.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
188.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
應該是回到剛剛跟委員報告的議題就是說我們列這個非疫區的名單如果不在這非疫區名單就是疫區只是要不要裁罰就是39個國家我覺得很奇怪你們這樣追蹤這樣怎麼會擋得住咧對不對他75個我們現在知道3年內就有75個國家我們只追蹤我們只限制管制這個39個這不是很奇怪嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
189.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
215.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
因為我們的活豬跟豬肉相關產品都只能從非洲豬瘟的非疫區國家輸入疫區進來的都不能進來但只是後續的採拔我們是看這個高風險的國家我還聽不懂你講什麼我是現在是講說那75為什麼你追蹤39那另外的是可以進來就對了這樣子好不好 那個委員我這個的詳細的在會後以後我今天就提供資料給您說我們這個很奇怪嘛好你等一下再給我資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
217.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
240.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那我這樣講啦 就是說邊境管制就算我們沒有這次非洲這個豬瘟的問題像這些75個國家我們應該我們自己邊境管制要更嚴格不是嗎 對不對其實我們這7年來就是如此你剛剛就講了就沒有做到嘛那第二個 現在我在講人入境 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
241.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
269.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
如果旅客或國人帶加工肉製品入境台灣都要申報檢疫如果偷帶查到就20萬對不對不管是不是從非洲豬瘟疫區入境都一樣對不對沒錯吧那我再問這個關務署我們財政部我們現在一年總共進口多少國際包裹 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
270.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
286.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們大概如果是快遞的話一年大概有6000平均6000萬件左右一年只有6000萬件快遞我查的資料2021年11月單月就有619萬大概就6000萬左右一年就6000萬嘛那針對剛剛農業部所說非洲豬瘟高風險地區進來的國際包裹我們的抽菸率是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
295.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
318.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
跟委員報告我們就是包裹就是不管是快遞或者是這個郵包我們全部都是百分之百的X光我現在講的是人工抽驗那人工抽驗的話就是說在這個X光影像上面看到如果有異常我們就是會馬上來做這個人工的一個開箱的一個查驗你要看到異常才會開箱 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
343.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
對 因為這個一方面就是人力的問題另外一方面就是通關速度的一個問題所以為什麼要利用這個X光的一個影像探索我們一般低價免貨物稅的抽菸率大概是3%左右對吧那是平均對啊 平均3%嘛那高風險地區的抽菸率有更高嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
345.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
360.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
高風險的其實其實就是說剛剛跟委員報告的高風險的也是就是從X光的影像來看然後我們會加強不是啊 我覺得很奇怪你一般都是3%左右那高風險你不會提高嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
363.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
376.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
跟委員報告大概我們針對高風險的譬如說是從這個中國大陸這邊大概我們的只有中國大陸是高風險地區其他地方不是嗎跟委員報告大概是4.59%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
380.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
396.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
4.59%這樣我大概算了一下就是從你們112年到114年兩年半大概放行的這個1億5000萬個包裹那關武署查獲只有大概1321件那通報比率不到千分之一的千分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
397.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
414.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這樣的數字難怪你們的報告完全不敢寫出來還好意思說邊境多嚴格你們乾脆直接說這個十二五環邊境管理早就已經棄守了嘛那現在每一件都是用S光來檢查那就表示你們這樣就是嚴格防疫的意思囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
416.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
437.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
跟委員報告其實X光檢查是本來就一定要經過X光檢查你現在所謂的精進作為我看到你們報告裡面說精進作為那要怎麼精進是像跟委員報告是提高人工開箱查驗比例嗎是提高人工的一個開箱查驗比例你剛剛講說X光照道有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
438.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
457.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你們才會人工開箱那你現在要精進你現在又說是要用人工開箱來精進你這個邏輯就不對了嘛因為委員報告是說剛才說這個S光這是本來就是我們會經過S光也就是說你們人工抽驗不是依照S光的這個看到有問題的來做開箱檢驗嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
461.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
481.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那你現在要精進就是要精進要提高我們人工開箱的抽檢率跟我們報告X光如果有異常一定開箱因為我們有經過我們的風險管理他的通關方式那你說精進的話你要怎麼做我們精進的話目前我們針對這個查驗的件數我們至少要提高20%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
483.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
495.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
精進 就是要查公 那你要多少人工 你知道嗎至少要提高百分之二十以上總共以後要百分之二十 是什麼時候開始是 我們就立即就開始了而且我們24號 你人手過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
497.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
518.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們現在就是說就是在這個我們的人力的一個我們就是全部充分來利用然後就是盡量你提高我下個月會開始看你的抽菸率那我現在在問動物製品有一千就是移送的這是1321件裡面有269件是豬肉那請問一下開罰多少罰了幾件 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
524.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
532.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
委員報告 這個開罰的部分是房檢署這邊好 你好 開罰 是委員講的是郵包 對好 郵包大概是開罰9件開罰9件 14 9案吧對 180萬 是那實際查獲違規的包裹有幾件實際查獲的包裹是幾件海關已給我們調查就是9件 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
553.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
562.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
就只有9件 就只查到9件就對了269件是出漏了 那你為什麼只開罰9件海關儀給我們的1300件左右那整個立案的大概是9件 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
568.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
583.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
對啊 為什麼呢有269件是豬肉耶因為身份的認證的問題對啊 我就覺得你們的規定很奇怪你知道嗎你們現在規定說如果他不在非洲豬瘟疫區裡面寄豬肉這個製品過來是可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
585.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
611.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那第二個如果他從疫區寄肉品來台灣寄件人跟收件人不一樣查到也不罰 不行那個委員我報告一下所有只要肉品絕對都不能進來不管你是非洲豬瘟如果是第一次從疫區自己帶進來也不罰嗎 完全都不行那為什麼269件你只查你只罰9件 那是身份問題因為當時他在登記的時候有時候是假身份所以我們去追查 假身份你追不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
612.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
635.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
追不到 他那個追不到所以他是用假名字假豬子咧 總會有人領嘛他總會有個地址有人去領啊所以我們追到受騙人 那受騙人否認不是他寄的每個人都這樣玩就好啦 你是怎麼把關啊目前是這樣 因為這個也有考量一個情形不是 這個就很大的一個漏洞嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
636.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
647.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你不覺得嗎 對不對他用假名字 然後我們不罰但也許他用假名字 可是他總要領這個東西嘛沒有領 其實很多是沒有領那他寄進來幹嘛邱委員我先報告一下所有的貨品是進不來 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
652.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
668.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
也就一定 或是一定銷毀但人的處理上我們去追 追法源那追法源就有身份的問題我知道嘛 我的意思是說他寄這個漏進來你說 你當然沒有給他進來 沒錯啊我的意思是說 他寄進來他總是有一個目的啊 對不對不然他寄這個東西幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
669.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
695.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
因為現在就有一個問題假設說好我們現在他是假身份我們追查到他然後他說不是我不是我叫人家記的也不是我認識的人記的那如果我們開罰那真的是就又錯殺了但是所以我覺得你們要想個辦法了好不好因為時間也不夠最後一個問題最後一個問題啊主席不好意思剛剛講的39個國家的那經我們查是因為跟我們國家有航班晚來 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
696.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
712.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以是39個 盤點以後對 是39個國家那我再問就是說最後一個就是昨天我們部長說這個基因定序明天會出來可是又說中國沒上傳這個序列所以沒辦法判斷來源這個定序不是就 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
713.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
741.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
比對全球嗎要找出最接近的病毒株研判可能傳入的這個來源你們之前也說其中有一部分是跟越南很這個病毒很相近那現在怎麼樣現在是中國的序列沒有中國系列就沒辦法比對是這樣嗎不是 跟委員報告因為病毒是會演化的那我們病毒的基因序列就入了他的身分證那我們之前的那這樣防疫有用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
742.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
765.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
基本上你還是要知道他病毒的序列才知道他的病毒的特性你不是說他會演變他會演化就像Covid-19一樣他也會演化那你查的不到他來源就對了所以如果是他有公佈最新的序列我們的序列就像禽流感一樣他有公佈最新的序列了我們就可以知道他從哪一個路徑譬如說我今天比對到跟北海道一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
767.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
783.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我這樣講就是說他講中國大陸沒有嘛對不對那你應該也不管中國大陸有沒有全世界應該都要比對不是這樣嗎當然比對全世界可是如果今天比到像剛剛非洲豬有24個基因型如果我們比到非洲的基因型跟我們不一樣那對我們這個病毒的意義一點都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
784.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
799.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
病毒的序列就可以比較可以用來追蹤它的可能的來源所以如果它不提供最新的那有可能其實像你當然應該是這樣講我們先比對嘛全世界先比對嘛也不一定是中國大陸來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
800.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
825.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以我覺得我們會送上那個我希望你們這個料敵從寬啦不要太狹隘這個病毒是有可能從全世界進來那我希望我們的防疫這個要做的這個嚴格一點才能保護我們的這個養豬農民 好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝崔委謝謝各位官員請回接下來請王育民委員來做宣達 |