| IVOD_ID |
164815 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164815 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-29T10:26:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-29T10:37:15+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3d43f2f62388da51bfcba1cf504773d6198a631d8f132014a1aee410a7bf192f6631682cceb1dba85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
牛煦庭 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:26:36 - 10:37:15 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長、海洋委員會主任委員、內政部警政署署長、內政部移民署署長、海洋委員會海巡署署長、農業部部長、財政部關務署署長，就「防堵非洲豬瘟邊境檢疫與查緝機制之檢討與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查委員徐巧芯等16人擬具「海岸巡防法第十三條條文修正草案」案。
【法律案僅詢答】
【10月29日及30日兩天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席我們農業部房檢署杜署長官務署彭署長還有海委會管組委好請移上官員列席大家都辛苦委員好來我先問一下杜署長杜署長你今天好像很可憐喔這個要講一講公道話希望大家共同面對 |
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32.95 |
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防疫的重大挑戰結果好像不分朝野都要砲轟你一下對不對這個我希望你一本初衷啦其實你第一個回答書下會委員質疑回答本來就很好嘛就四平八穩的講大家都有一定的工作跟分工那大家都很努力那這是中央地方共同的責任剛剛很多民進黨的委員都提說這個是甚至都要逼你講出就是台中市政府防疫不力那這都很正常 政治口水嘛但是我要問的是非洲豬瘟它會平白無故在台灣境內產生嗎 |
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不會嘛 他一定是境外移入那以署長的了解 境外移入有哪幾種渠道就是他怎麼進來的我們也有在研析過 當然從他的管道上來講當然機場會是一個 港口也是一個那包括到說 我們現在的 |
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移工 外勞那這些等等還有產品署長你聽一聽第一個叫旅客夾帶就不管是坐船的坐飛機的等等偷偷帶進來的嘛叫旅客夾帶第二個就是所謂的走私嘛這漁船的走私有的沒的夾也是一種夾帶的行為但它量比較大對不對 也是一種走私第三種叫郵寄嘛對不對 大概就是這三種有沒有脫離這三種的範疇 |
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大體上應該不拖這樣的範疇如果有你可以補充沒有關係那我剛剛也聽了很多委員在問包含馬市長講旅客夾帶我想我們自己有時候常出國回來這該到位的也都有到位啦我們該查都有查都有過X光機這我想大家都有經驗所以我今天的重點不是談旅客夾帶我請教一下館主委 |
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你剛剛講的都問到你的時候你都講海漂豬你們一定檢驗我想這個很OK嘛大家都希望從嚴處理因為那個死在那個地方你當然要檢驗嘛對不對但問題是海巡的另外一個重要的任務也是查其走私嘛那最近這段時間有沒有查其到豬肉走私的狀況有沒有一些數據可以跟大家報告一下呢 |
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農漁產品比較多大概4萬多公斤的農漁產品的走私我們今天就討論豬肉而已豬肉的部分我們沒有4萬多公噸的農漁產品然後沒有查到任何的豬肉公斤不好意思公斤修正一下但沒有查到走私的豬肉我們過去曾經有查到的是譬如說毛肚 |
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整船整船的忙碌我只問主委一個牛肉的製品是比較多尤其是牛雜你們都已經盡了最大的努力我不會否定海軍同仁的辛苦但是主委你可以掛保證說這就是全部的走私了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
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委員這個問題其實大家都知道答案我們盡全力你全力以赴但是再怎麼樣防堵都不可能因為這東西實在是太你不可能所有的人通通一天到晚把我想每一個管道的問題是一樣每一個管道的問題是一樣我們現在要聽的就是實話嘛好不好這我們希望海運署就加強把控啦尤其是針對這種可疑豬肉的這個是最上游 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
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那基本上管制到豬場的那個部分的管理恐怕也是最關鍵但是我們每個層面我們都盡全力把它做到最好各自其職你就收好你的海上避免走私豬肉這本期要做一下提醒好我們再回到杜署長第三個然後有關務署一起好不好這也是本期今天要特別去提醒的其實就是郵寄嘛這一段時間我們都委員講說要禁止淘寶或什麼東西這個我們從什麼時候開始就禁止了這個中國大陸地區的豬肉製品輸入台灣107年 |
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107年嘛對不對這其實很清楚嘛那這個署長跟我們分享一下為什麼違規輸入啊就郵寄入境跟旅客夾帶的罰則分別是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
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目前我們只要是有豬肉的製品一定是20萬起跳20萬起跳 這叫夾帶入境嘛就機場沒看那宣導影片也拍很多是不是講說只要豬肉被抓到至少罰20萬最高罰100萬嘛對不對 這叫夾帶入境好 郵寄入境的罰則是什麼郵寄入境的部分也是一樣對 只要豬肉產品也都是20萬起跳一定會罰嗎真的 因為這個也牽扯到說 |
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整個追查的部分是有比較困難比較困難的地方在哪裡 來我今天就要問這個今天我們要談制度補破網我今天就這一件事而已 |
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是 跟委員報告因為這個郵包的部分他這個寄進來的人跟實際上收貨的人其實在全球都是一樣 常常是對不起來的所以我們行政調查的案件到最後會承擔到裁罰的案件其實相對的是比較少的好 講得真好這個郵遞寄送的輸入狀況從有非洲族恩到現在由你頒布重罰的條款到現在你抓到多少案子 裁罰了多少人有沒有數據做一下整理 |
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347.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
是 郭委員報告齁這個郵包的部分我們攔截到就是一隻豬肉產品然後被我們攔下來的被海關攔下來移送到房間數的大約有1000案但到最後成功裁罰的只有9個就是9個案件人1000個案子裡面只有9個案子被裁罰很好 這就是我今天重點來脫影片秀出來這個動物傳染病防治條例是法律的層級但是裁罰基準應該是行政命令如果本席沒有了解錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
348.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
371.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
現在狀況是這樣旅客夾帶進來至少罰20萬但是問題是你郵寄寄送書我們先不要講說你追溯溯源很難罰你竟然還有後門條款這個第四點你看看頭裡面這樣違反本公告者由輸出入動物檢疫機關一動物傳染病防治條例四三條第八款規定採取收件人但收件人非輸入人或首次輸入非故意者不予處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
374.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
報告委員物跟人要分開處理物一千件全部燒毀 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
387.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
391.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
人的處罰因為還是要有事證可以追查得到所以這個地方是有他的困難度但物是全部都燒毀那當然你物本來就都要燒毀嘛所以沒有一件事流入但是問題是這樣嘛我們為什麼要罰比如夾帶入侵要罰20萬其實叫嚇阻嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
407.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
434.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
也就是說我不要讓這些人起心動念說我想要幹這個事情嘛那同樣今天一樣物物當然抓到就沒收嘛任何夾帶走私抓到反而就要沒收反而銷毀對不對那你如果不重罰你不加大裁罰力道然後讓裁罰的執行性可以增加的話那不是大家還是會想說我試一下嗎反正了不起要嘛他抓不到我他抓到我他也不見得證明我可以故意所以我就記吧那是不是包裹就多了包裹多了你邊境檢驗查核的壓力就大了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
438.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
448.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們現在就針對委員所講國際郵包或者是快遞這個部分那也是關務署在檢視整個系統從登記來來來 關務署你贊不贊成把這個條款廢掉其實就這個問題嘛我們今天在思考制度上要什麼補破網要加大裁判力道要把它變嚴格其實就這個問題你覺得應該把它廢掉報告委員這不是我們關務署的權責廢掉對你們有沒有幫助嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
467.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
496.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們都是遵守你們裡面內部因為都不是你們的權責你們也不會討論這個事所以要到立法院討論嘛對不對你們都在的時候我們當場講一講對不對跟委員包括我們在郵包那邊喔今年都已經查獲到286件了是嘛還是很多對不對那如果廢掉然後變成說我只要一抓到相對來講我比較容易裁罰成功會不會有一點嚇阻效果當然重罰齁有嚇阻的效果啦但是就是說重罰你還是要有證據證明說他是故意走私這樣的一個行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
497.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
516.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
不是我現在這樣講非故意拿掉我不管你故不故意啊你只要進來我就是罰嘛對不對你現在就說因為我還我多一關要證明你是故意還是非故意我就更難罰嘛我現在把這條款拿掉錢包的部分喔剛剛提到的就是說常常這個收件人並不知道寄件人為什麼會寄給他他可能都不知道所以要罰到 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
517.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
542.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個收件人是有他的困難因為他可能是無故意或過失署長我就只問你把這個標準往上提讓他變嚴格即便很有可能啊會造成另外一波有一些人會認為自己被錯殺對不對是但是我們在防疫的時候現在大家都在討論要不要再把破網補起來嗎是這樣子對你降低你邊境的檢驗的那個壓力有沒有幫助嗎任何的重罰對我們都有幫助很好謝謝來這個農業部要不要考慮把它廢除 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
548.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
562.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我想這個有不足的地方或者是應該修法的地方這個我們會著手來處理但我在這裡還是要說明說這一千的違規的物品都銷毀了我知道我知道但我現在想是源頭嘛對人的處罰你現在對人不管他是夾帶還是他是郵寄都應該想辦法讓他很容易被罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
569.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
584.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這樣我們才能盡量賭嘛剛剛管主委講我是很同意啊再怎麼樣嚴格都不見得百分之百但越嚴格效果總是越好好不好所以你願不願意在這邊我們就當場承受至少我們今天諮詢有個進展嘛就是說我把這個還給開一個非故意的這個橋門我現在把它拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
585.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
598.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好不好 農業部要不要答應我們來跟相關單位我們就針對這個修法的途徑上來這個應該不用修了你們內部行政命令把程序走完其實就好了會比立法院修法快得多好不好這個你三天之內要給我們一個答覆可以嗎我們要希望討論制度補破網啦 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
612.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
627.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
除了这个自己故意寄给自己然后被我们采发以外还有另外一种样态就是说这个邮包他不知道是谁的然后他接到这个包裹了他发现是简易物他也必须要交给我们如果没有交出来的话也有罚则是3到15万所以这两种样态都有对应的罚则了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
627.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
639.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
沒關係 你三天之內把這個法規做檢討但我現在告訴你就有一個狀況而且你的績效就是一千件只能罰九件啦這件事情你們要思考一下怎麼樣提高他的效能啦這是本期今天質詢的重點希望大家好好思考 大家一起加油 謝謝 |