| IVOD_ID |
164808 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164808 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-29T12:11:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-29T12:23:44+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:42 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3d43f2f62388da5156cf48509f9d4815c033660070f94f42a1aee410a7bf192f058d39ead7a38cca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:11:02 - 12:23:44 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長及勞動部就「臺鐵各地車站旅客安全措施檢討、改善員工職場安全及勞動條件」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請交通部部長及交通部鐵道局局長就「全台軌道建設進度」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【10月27日、29日及30日三天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席麻煩有請交通部部長台鐵的董事長陳部長鄭董事長請委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.714 |
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委員好部長好 董事長好上一次我請教鄭董事長就有關於詐騙廠商拿政府靠的政商關係拿標案的事情其中受害的行政機關滿多的台鐵是列控4.0上次我有問到答案因為之前說還要研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.004 |
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然後運安會直接說這個安全管理的核心目的不符台鐵原來事實上要暫緩推動可是上次我問說還在研議答案變成暫緩推動我上次是請教鄭董事長說為什麼你們不直接講實話去年年底的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.728 |
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95.261 |
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那你們你說你要回去調查那你調查了以後昨天吧應該是昨天我不曉得是傍晚還是晚上終於把可能他知道你今天要來被備選如果報告還沒交來的話我一定會在這邊請教董事長所以同仁很辛苦昨天不曉得下午還是晚上終於把報告趕出來 |
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96.394 |
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我看完報告我只想跟董事長分享一個心得董事長其實我相信在各方面的經歷都很豐富中文我相信也是非常的鹹酥董事長可以回去看一下我老實說台鐵給我這份報告我完全看不懂我完全看不懂前面說是後續要研議 |
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125.669 |
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後面才說要暫緩推動然後我說就是前後矛盾說明不實但是你們把之前講過的東西全部抄一次然後最後的結論是說回應沒有說明不實這個報告董事長你可以回去再看一下因為今天質詢的時間很珍貴我沒有要在這邊跟董事長去爭論 |
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153.638 |
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我跟委員報告一下這個來由就是說其實沒錯在113年12月的時候這個安全委員會是決議說按照委員的意見延續原議那麼到了今年4月的時候委員在質詢台鐵的時候那時候的代理董事長就是伍聖元伍次長那他說那時候這個案子還是在研究中 |
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181.357 |
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198.3 |
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那到了6月25號呢我上任以後您在這邊問我是要把這個事情兩個月裡面調查清楚做一個報告那我那時候就整個去把這個整個資料包括去年12月的這個整個委員會的資料來看來龍去脈我把它弄清楚 |
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198.88 |
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我就覺得說這案子不應該再繼續做了所以我就說這時候應該是暫緩推動就是說那時候的整個這案子不再推動是我那時候做的決策決定所以我就那時候跟委員報告所以大概是這樣的一個情況沒有關係啊董事長說明過經過就好了啦因為我之前有講過台鐵某個程度上也是被害人 |
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224.636 |
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因為有大官帶著廠商去台鐵要台鐵搞這個事情結果搞了半天了以後浪費國家一堆資源浪費國家一堆資源 |
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235.233 |
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那台鐵因此受害確定沒有再投入無謂的資源在這個根本毫無意義除了肥的那個廠商以外浪費國家幾千萬浪費台鐵一堆人力時間物力以外毫無任何意義的計畫董事長你之前的事情我不會歸咎你你做了這個決斷停止就好了那但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.786 |
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288.425 |
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有一些責任我們還是要講清楚那個台鐵董事長可以請回了接下來請部長相同一個二子的廠商標到桃園三行下那當然他是跟晨運汽車合作他是分包商李立但是主要核心的自駕系統是由他負責然後兩個廠商當初一起去投標那投完標了以後果不其然 |
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290.313 |
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311.393 |
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爛得不得了一樣不能用 一樣不能用那一樣不能用接下來造成桃園三行下整個工程的延誤就已經很嚴重了那除了很嚴重了以外造成國家的損失總是要賠嘛到現在它總共造成的損害超過1億 |
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314.161 |
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342.265 |
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那這種不能扛納稅人之愷二次的廠商造成三行下工程的延誤我老實說啦納稅人已經付了很慘痛的代價了那因此所造成金錢上面的損失當然是要要回來嘛那我一直在追那我追結果淘氣給我的回覆是說他們還在研議後續處理的方式我就搞不懂了有什麼好研議的現在是廠商不賠嗎我有點搞不懂 |
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342.933 |
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371.109 |
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報告委員 該追溯的部分我們一定會追溯啦但我覺得這件事情第一陶基要先去核算出實際上要追溯的金額現在是1億983萬算出來了那第一步當然要先跟對方用溝通的方式他願不願意賠第二步如果他不願意賠我們當然就要走司法的追溯現在對方願不願意賠這個目前他們還在溝通當中沒有關係喔那個請部長回去指示陶基的順便回覆我好不好第一個 |
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372.009 |
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397.943 |
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對方要不要賠第二個錢什麼時候要追討回來其實我只要這兩個答案因為我們在國會監督不希望該討回來的錢因為特殊的廠商不討回來這樣子不好把時間講清楚因為我看這家公司繼續在拿政府的標案一方面拿政府的標案一方面賺政府的錢該賠給政府的不賠我看不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
399.042 |
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421.297 |
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我看不懂 我們的政府很慷慨很有錢嗎怎麼會讓他這樣子搞那第三個事情因為這件事情人命關天 給我一分鐘就好了 召委不好意思國道緩撞車事故頻傳我一直都說緩撞車事故頻傳因為那一天我去台積中開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
422.83 |
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443.389 |
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我從台中開完會回來了以後我就回來台北結果我那天真的還差點在高速公路上發生車禍我不是開玩笑的差一公尺然後我坐在那邊看我想了非常的久這真的是太危險了因為在內側車道突然 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
444.522 |
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467.973 |
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前面有一台車切到外側車道突然有一個燈亮了要煞車要切出去切不出去差點就撞上然後結果我才發現說裡面原來有工程車要施工有工程車要施工這是必然會發生的事情那我那天晚上其實回到家以後就是餘悸猶存啊我就一直在思考說 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
470.306 |
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490.224 |
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是我的感覺比較特殊還是這種事故發生過很多次所以我就去查了結果我發現兩年間這個移動性內車道施工完全就是我所遇到的狀況來 部長看一下數字他的數字是126件126件現在不是一件不是兩件 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
497.165 |
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524.692 |
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不是個位數是126件跟其他型態的一比較內車車道的緩撞車他發生事故非常非常的頻繁非常非常的頻繁那我看到這個數字以後我非常的驚訝因為這個數字對比部長一看就知道了移動性內車道的施工的緩撞車撞上的數字高於其他類型的 |
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526.007 |
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548.06 |
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其他類型的幾乎都個位數了不起十幾件這個是126件這後面一定有原因所以我又繼續去查了說那有沒有之前類似的是不是因為他們開ADAS輔助駕駛的系統沒有認真好好開車所以撞上去但是我看了分析的比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
549.622 |
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563.028 |
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也不是這個狀況因為有很多他是沒有去用輔助駕車系統也就是真人在開的跟我那天晚上遇到的狀況一模一樣比例啊非常非常的高在這樣的情況之下顯然 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
565.14 |
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579.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這絕對不是個案這一定是系統性的因素那因此我把相關的規範全部講完了以後全部都看完了以後我最後看到運安會的建議運安會也注意到這件事情了 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
580.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
599.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
強化移動性內側車道施工之交通管制設施佈置的方式也就是你們現在佈置的方式我在圖上面顯現出來了 相關的規範我大概都看了但問題是你們現在這個佈置的方式運安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
600.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
628.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
去參佐外國在內側的車道移動性的車輛施工佈置的方式以後提出具體的建議提出具體的建議說我們目前交通管制設施佈置的方式及施工的警示必須要更周延以利駕駛人用路的安全那這件事情我只想問一件事就是說依照運安會的建議高工局 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
629.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
654.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
開始研議改善措施了沒有還是覺得運安會的建議不要聽跟委員報告您的開車經驗跟我開車經驗剛好有類似啦我自己也有開車在高速公路上面我也看到這個狀況同樣的狀況那數據上我們也有研析過確實這個緩撞車我們當時設置緩撞車是為了要保護前面的施工人員因為過去施工結果都撞到緩撞車 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
655.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
684.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
對 後來都撞到緩撞車也跟委員報告當然時常有這個事故是非常不好而且必須要避免的所以修正的部分我們已經在研議了因為我自己開車也遇到這個狀況需要多久大概兩三個月之內我跟高工局長也討論過該怎麼樣去做改善這個部分我們已經在做了就是說緩撞車怎麼讓大家更明顯很遠就看得到說我該停車或該換道目前我自己開車的經驗覺得不夠明顯這個部分我們先來改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
685.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
705.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
部長我再跟你分享一個經驗今天時間的關係所以我沒有放帶子因為那個行車紀錄器其實影片我截取下來特別是當你前面有一台車的時候那台車發現前面有個緩撞車他趕快切車道就切出去等到他切出去的時候你真的看到的時候真的很有可能會來不及 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
706.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
716.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那不過部長願意承認這個問題的存在也說高工局現在正在研議這個就是我質詢的目的但是我只拜託高工局拜託拜託趕快 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
718.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
745.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
真的趕快因為類似的事情我相信每天晚上特別是晚上的時候每天都在發生當中我們不希望造成更多的傷亡我們在幾個月前就已經啟動在討論這件事情了大概再兩三個月我們就會有結論我希望運安會按照外國他們做的方式給的具體的建議該改的規範該改善的部件的方式就要趕快 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
746.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
761.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我不希望啦在這件事情真的完成改善了以後有更多無辜的人因此受到傷亡再拜託交通部再拜託高工局如果可能的話腳步再加快一點這個我們盡快好 謝謝 |