| IVOD_ID |
164794 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164794 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-29T11:30:54+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-29T11:40:07+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3d43f2f62388da519357fdd1f9f599d3b08d4a2736e01e2bc51656f8b51a994a7e9217227cf404ac5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:30:54 - 11:40:07 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查：
行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等20人、委員李坤城等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員羅美玲等19人、委員賴惠員等21人、委員黃捷等22人、委員陳亭妃等17人、委員邱鎮軍等21人及委員吳沛憶等16人分別擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」。
二、審查：
行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等20人、委員李坤城等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員羅美玲等19人、委員賴惠員等21人、委員黃捷等22人、委員陳亭妃等17人、委員邱鎮軍等24人及委員吳沛憶等16人分別擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」條文對照表。
三、審查：
行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等19人、委員李坤城等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、委員羅美玲等19人、委員賴惠員等21人、委員黃捷等22人、委員陳亭妃等17人、委員吳沛憶等16人分別擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」及委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「自來水法第三條、第十六條之一及第九十七條之一條文修正草案」條文對照表。
以上全案於10月29日（星期三）進行合併詢答，10月30日（星期四）處理。
【10月29日及30日二天一次會】（請參閱開會通知單及議程）） |
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來 謝主席麻煩有請經濟部部長台水的董事長我們請部長還有董事總經理台水總經理兩位好時間的關係喔直接進行高雄大樹區裡面51公頃違法的光電濫墾濫伐遭到起訴經濟部是說火速撤照希望業者不要僥倖這不是僥倖不小心的問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
35.595 |
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搞了這種爛氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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在高雄大樹區51公頃山坡地違反山坡地保育條例爛啃去搞光電板這不是不要僥倖的問題這準備去坐牢了沒什麼好說的我關心的事情是說上一次我有問過經濟部說你們廢止了部分的施工許可第一期水土保持計畫經濟部跟我說合法合規使用沒有終止租約的問題現在立場還是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
67.512 |
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跟委員報告我想這個一期的部分目前都是沒有問題那第二個二期的部分二期的部分也要終止租約嗎跟委員報告二期的部分目前來講我們市府這邊都已經核准那個水路保持一個完工那目前來講我們每天都在監測所以這對問題回來就沒有要終止租約嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
88.775 |
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我們目前來講因為屬於這個目前來講廠商他光電已經停止使用但是他我們請他提對啊他光電停止使用啊但是他破壞山坡地違反法令不是事實明確嗎跟委員報告目前經過市府這個相關單位的一個評估目前來講都符合相關的法令的規定那我們會你的意思是說啦過去違反法令的不追究啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
117.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
145.604 |
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市府要他趕上 趕上完了以後就讓他繼續租是不是這樣目前來講的話我們就請廠商提其他的應用的計畫那我們依照原來的7月大概118年才會合法的一個終止來 我們來看齁我上次問這個土地的使用有沒有違反法律結果上次經濟部的次長賴建信跟我說啊說這個是要台水去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
146.653 |
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170.999 |
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我上次提醒賴建信回去跟台水講 回去的租約看清楚回去租約看清楚 租約是怎麼約定的現在橋頭遞減違反山坡地保育條例違反水土保持法 仔細看喔擅自在不可開發的地方使用河山光電案第一期工程案 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
172.571 |
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195.764 |
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鋪設太陽能光電板以此方式擅自懇職開發公有的山坡地這個是第一期第二期非法懇職違規開發的面積高達25897平方公尺現在我看不懂了檢察官在起訴的犯罪事實裡面指證歷例 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
197.652 |
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220.976 |
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這已經不是違約的問題 這是違法的問題再看一下我們台水的土地租賃契約書存租人使用土地違反法定可以隨時終止租約 我看不懂啦現在是這個業者後台很硬嗎你為什麼不按照租約終止契約把地收回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
222.678 |
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248.791 |
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因為目前來講到現在 他已經改善完成了既往不就 請你看一下租約好不好請你看一下租約好不好 第11條 我用紅筆框起來的陳朱仁使用土地違反法令請問這個陳朱仁使用土地有沒有違反法令跟委員報告 我講我們是會依照7月的規定來跟我7月就攤給你看啊 但我今天為什麼質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
250.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
265.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你們嘴巴說會按照契約的規定你實際上根本沒有按照契約的規定啊目前廠商有依照原來的那個所以你還是要照回去啊我在問你陳朱仁使用土地有沒有違反法令 有還是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
267.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
294.526 |
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有還是沒有 目前來講是有違反法律 但是已經做修正了已經做修正 對嘛 所以我現在才問嘛那廠商的後台到底有多硬啊使用土地違反法律都已經被起訴了但是我們台準說啊沒有關係我不會終止租約 我們請廠商提其他合法的一個使用的計畫你再看一下這個契約書啦 我真的不知道你們為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
296.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
314.281 |
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針對保護國家應該公有的資產 保護山坡地會採取這樣子的態度今天濫墾 搞光電板違反山坡地保育條例 違反水土保持法都已經被起訴了 然後我們的台水說 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
317.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
332.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
陳朱仁使用土地違反法令有沒有違反 有但是我不終止租約 因為他已經改善了這個是台水的態度啊 來直接請教一下部長部長 贊不贊成台水這樣的態度我直接跟你講啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
355.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
台水公司為什麼會這樣軟趴趴我不是很了解我真的不是很了解背後是有什麼隱情有什麼人當靠山搞成這個樣子高雄地區的鄉親如此的憤怒但是我們台水說沒有關係他已經改善了請問經濟部部長經濟部的立場跟台水一樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
357.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
385.012 |
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八五園那家廠商我完全不認識是我也不知道沒有關係通常來講我們跟他我也沒有說你認識啦不要緊張啦通常我們跟他契約關係解約是最後的手段是那解約之前假如有一些可以變更的話就讓他去變更然後而且現在是起訴階段還沒有定驗所以你要等到定驗就對了至少一審的時候出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
385.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
415.055 |
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現在的標準是一樣嗎是只有對這個廠商一樣還是對所有的廠商都是這個樣子我再講一次啊看一下契約書陳朱仁使用土地違反法令他不是寫喔陳朱仁使用土地違反法令經判決確定我現在就搞不懂為什麼為什麼面對這樣違法的廠商台水軟趴趴就算了連經濟部都軟趴趴喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
416.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
432.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
不是 要判決比較確定以後才對嘛 所以我請你看契約書嘛部長你回去想一件事情啊上面契約條款的約定是陳朱仁使用土地違反法令還是陳朱仁使用土地違反法令經法院判刑確定者 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
435.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
450.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這是基本的契約書解讀啦我不相信經濟部的也好 台水的法務也好會給出這麼荒謬的法律見解如果是按照這樣子搞的話如果是按照這樣子搞的話 那完蛋了事情真的大條了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
452.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
479.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
主席站起來了 我只問最後一個問題我只問最後一個問題所以經濟部現在跟台水的立場一樣這件事情要等到判刑確定了以後才要處理是還是不是 給我這個答案就好了你們權力在你們手上嘛立法機關沒有辦法逼你去終止這個違背法律使用土地把山坡地搞成這個樣子的業者的租約因為權力在你們手上 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
480.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
503.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我沒有權力逼你沒有權力幫你去終止租約啊你可以選擇我就是不終止那要不然要怎麼樣那就看立法機關能夠怎麼樣現在我只問態度跟立場的問題台水總經理的立場非常清楚了我已經聽到了現在我最後只請教部長經濟部的立場跟台水是不是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
505.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
520.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個可能法條上的檢視我要再檢視一下好 你再檢視需要多久這沒有很複雜啦這可能還會牽涉到萬一他判決下來沒有違法沒有關係啦你回去問你們的法務啦我再說一次啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
521.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
548.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
如果是按照這樣子 如果是按照你們這樣解釋我只跟你講一句話 事情大調了 第二個在其他的案子當中 你們都是適用這樣子的標準嗎第三個 這件事情 法律問題的解釋沒有你想像的那麼複雜我現在只問部長一件事情 你說你要回去再檢視 你檢視需要多久一個禮拜之內用書面回覆我經濟部的立場可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
549.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
550.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
兩個禮拜可以嗎兩個禮拜 好 我給你兩個禮拜 |