| IVOD_ID |
164791 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164791 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-29T11:06:38+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-29T11:20:56+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3d43f2f62388da51c8dd5e1aec9a7287c033660070f94f42c51656f8b51a994a9b5a38827da00aad5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
魯明哲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:06:38 - 11:20:56 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長及勞動部就「臺鐵各地車站旅客安全措施檢討、改善員工職場安全及勞動條件」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請交通部部長及交通部鐵道局局長就「全台軌道建設進度」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【10月27日、29日及30日三天一次會】） |
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好謝謝主席有請我們交通部陳部長陳部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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部長早 委員好就請教一下就是說當然因為這陣子包括地方政府大家都在關心所謂的一個軌道工程地方主要的一個捷運是這個在明年度的預算跟原本的概算很多的部分少了非常多所以我們看到大概有幾個地方政府就說補助差那麼多有可能蓋不下去可是 |
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我有聽到這個行政院院長跟部長去說反正一句話就是沒錢嘛對不對然後因為錢因為財化吧等等的原因可是同一時間10月21號這個看到舊人在哭又看到新人在笑哇台南手條捷運中央決定補助193億然後市政府自籌多少一方面是覺得沒有了一方面又開啟一個新的一個計畫我覺得 |
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70.828 |
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對於這個正反變的訊息我真的想問一下 部長你們對於現在軌道工程你們整個的一個已經核定了一個經費整個的一個政策到底是什麼 你說一下 |
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跟委員報告目前正在審核的案子其實還蠻多的我們這些進度還是持續走但是對於長期來說跟委員報告就是才化法之後我們能夠協助地方的力量應該是會減少 |
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那減少之後就會有新的辦法但是目前新的辦法還沒出來所以我們原本在審議的過程包含桃園的也是一樣我們進度讓他持續走不要去拖延到地方的進度這個相當的關鍵所以我們進度持續走但是我們到底還有多少的預算可以來協助地方我們要看每一年的財政的狀況 |
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我想說在這一次基本上已經核定的地方的一個軌道工程 除了六都加基隆市嘛基隆市大家也吵了很久嘛然後就準備要開始了 準備開始第一年各個地方整個看起來提出來的概算是399億在今年明年度然後你實際編的預算總共只有90億然後減少了 |
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147.974 |
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77%這所有在線上的六都加基隆市像這樣的一個減幅其實演發出來幾個問題第一個現在還很多的在可行性研究中規環評大家都知道每一次任何的軌道工程因為金額比較大技術很多地方的一個意見都被折磨了四五年通過哇 叫一流 |
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多少的法規國法會所有的原則所有的所有的例子拿出來一個一個的去判判讀出來我可以補助多少結果四五年跟你們磨了半天結果你四五個月不要說四五天你就決定沒有了 |
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我就講第一個我覺得這種過五官斬六將五六年的一個專業抵不過你行政院長跟交通部你們幾個人講一下叭喳到底砍幾叭 隨便就把它砍掉這到底是以前的那叫做折磨人四五年根本不叫專業其實根本不值得一提我只要我的會員一看就可以減到多少我覺得有一點 |
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羞辱到過去這麼努力的不管是鐵道局交通部國發跟行政院整個團隊嚴格審查的一個結果那現在一個我要請教的意思就是說沒有關係我要問你政策第一個是不做不完了結果是什麼明年不編預算它只是一個訊號是緩編預算還是有是緩編 |
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240.661 |
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還是就不編了不編了我覺得這個都還是要跟人家去講清楚為什麼呢有一些人在施工階段了他頭已經洗下去了那他要想辦法對不對那第二個呢你們剛通過的台南啊人家正在開心啊開心嘛但是你們正在同一時間他準備稀釋發包最快明年開始動工這新聞媒體寫的那像這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
266.508 |
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294.764 |
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你們剛核定正準備細色發包的幾個案子你要跟他講清楚我這樣希望你能夠講清楚說抱歉雖然你還沒有發包我們核定的10月21號的也是只是跟你玩一玩說193億其實是騙你的那你要跟人家講清楚因為地方政府他有他的採組單位主計如果他沒有明確的來源的時候他連辦發包都有問題第三個是有18個案子就像部長說的 |
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296.085 |
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319.539 |
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三個還在中規階段15個在可行於研究一次講清楚嘛這都還沒開始的說真的中央地方裁員的問題你是解決不了已經發包跟一些廠商契約的問題啊你說沒有了不完你沒有辦法取約啊我跟你講那是沒有辦法去所以我們希望你能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.334 |
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344.912 |
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最快的速度把這個事情釐清嘛這個東西讓大家到底未來不補還是還補那工程要怎麼收尾我們工程會在我們交通委員會嘛要怎麼收尾啊有些真的做不下去了嘛你也不要說賭反正他一定可以做下去那不一定那我現在問部長你可以回答的這個鐵道局跟台鐵公司你可以回答的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
345.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.981 |
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好了 財化法地方預算 中央預算兩者之爭結果台鐵公司在明年台鐵公司他要212億就你們一樣大概減了七十幾億減了大概七十億大約大概六七十億變成只給他145億其中包括了什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
383.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
軌道結構安全提升啦我跟你講你們撿這個如果工程沒做現在誰撿誰要負責行政院長學生要負責軌道結構安全你可以給他撿掉12億 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
385.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
407.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
營業所需車輛維修台鐵公司他提的計畫你把他也減掉12億大概十幾億那這個的部分你要你們砍掉的是什麼這個沒有扯到地方政府喔鐵道局台鐵公司都是你們中央單位了但你當你砍這個的時候你怎麼砍得下去一個是結構軌道結構安全第二個是車輛維修總共砍了25億 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
410.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
429.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
鐵道局你砍了300億包括花東很多項目啦花東鐵路地下化砍了46億桃園鐵路地下化還有沒有240億嘛你大概也砍了120億那就問鐵道局你到底做不做啦現在不是問地方政府你們是主責單位你們是發報單位那個楊局長你來說一下這對你來說是不編了還是緩編 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
436.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
451.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
還是不做就我不要問地方都問你因為這個工程是你你說的你說一下這個我們還是會按照原來的企業進度繼續進所以錢都會到嗎這個錢的話就是可以按照分年可能我們在做所以都可以所以到這個錢還是會來嗎目前我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
453.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
470.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我跟你講 台灣鐵路地下化你們一方面在國發會在審議要增加700多億啦另外一方面你現有的1000億裡面 你說匡列的預算你都不到位 但是你很有信心也謝謝楊局長 那我想這個信心應該會傳遞到地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
472.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
492.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
主責施工的這個部分到底可不可以繼續來做一個施工我覺得這個部分我們希望行政院長或交通部你要趕快釐清嘛不然有些要發包你錢又不給他根本沒有辦法去發包了那另外一個角度如果你這個事情政策不明朗不清楚的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
493.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
519.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
不用理由 我省了五年 不用理由就可以弄掉幾十億喔喔 這樣可以啊你要知道當你組織單位的時候地方政府在台鐵地下化當然我們地方想要可是如果這錢弄不清你不給我也不給你嘛現在250億 如果未來變成1800億討厭市政府25%他要付450億那大家花PAR GAME我覺得這個部分有些在中央組織有些是地方組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
520.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
543.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你這個東西 你不給我錢 我不給你錢我不希望這種事情發生最後請那個台鐵公司鄭董剛剛已經有委員問過了為什麼黃處長 代理處長剛剛有到問完之後就跑掉了是突然有財務危機要回去處理的剛剛有沒有到 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
545.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
572.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他剛剛有沒有到場 剛剛有我們會還沒結束 是我們召委主席你他幹嘛跑 跑什麼 有會不好意思嗎因為我看你們講的都是拍胸脯啊 沒有問題啊他幹嘛跑 還是什麼財務危機要回去處理財務他是代理的 他是監的處長但是他主要的工作是在做媒體溝通這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
573.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
599.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我跟你講 鄭董事長 這個事情喔 我是本來是有點生氣 但是我現在更多的同情您年紀這麼大 還要在這裡為前朝所做的事情遮遮掩掩你從高鐵公司來 要借重你的專業來處理這個事情結果近來不到兩個月 也被洗成這種可以睜眼說瞎話的 我覺得很奇怪喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
601.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
627.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
欸 你們當時去招生啊你們總是要一個 要的人才們講對嘛他做新聞沒問題嘛你們當時就要求十年以上的媒體經驗 十年警委來的時候 我們當時就接到檢舉嘛我想說用人是你們的權利 我們也沒有我們覺得他好 那我們也認為你認為他在做委員秘書 或者說交通部什麼他也處理新聞 算我們當時一句話都沒有問過 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
628.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
631.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
甚至三個人到台鐵公司 當時不是你 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
632.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
661.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
面試的時候有兩個都是20年媒體經驗而且是大媒體經驗不用就是我們黃先生進來了所以他是處理媒體的這個部分用了10年如果當時你要求一個人才是10年的財快經驗我告訴你大家閉嘴了沒什麼好講的吧所以你們為什麼還要扯什麼東西呢這個人進來就跟財務一點都沒關係他的學歷也是公共政策我們尊重他的專業嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
662.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
675.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
他的公共政策政府的部分你為什麼要為他遮遮掩我就請問一下鄭董再說一下你高鐵過來高鐵的財快副總你用的是誰請說明一下也是這樣子隨便搞的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
676.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
702.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
現在叫什麼 請問一下王維仁副總專門負責他的學經理 你說一下好不好你才剛從這個公司來 你要怎麼知道台鐵 高鐵104年 105年都快要倒掉了你們是怎麼救起來 我還在感謝你們怎麼救起來 在救的階段整個包括土地資產整個處理 你要找專業的甚至有兩位董事長 當時劉董范董都還是本身是財怪背景 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
703.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
728.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
結果你們現在你們高鐵要你們的經驗 什麼經驗王財快的副總專門的他是台大研畢業畢業的他也是一個集團的財務長才轉過來的你怎麼到這邊我們要你帶經驗過來你居然怎麼會這樣 我這樣同情啊這個人是誰任用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
731.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
751.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個誰認用剛剛喔其實好啦我知道時間到了第一個代理財務處處長整體的薪水當然有增加因為主管家籍增加多少主管家籍增加多少人是一萬一主管家籍增加多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
753.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
776.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
講嘛 好嘛 那他整體領到錢 薪水有沒有增加嘛對不對 你們這樣跟部長講說專門員什麼一毛沒有增加 主管家籍啊 都已經領啦當然有增加那再來最後一個是你們在這樣的一個用人的一個政策上面我覺得出了大問題鄭董這個人是不是你提拔到財務處處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
779.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
805.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
因為我來以前他已經是在那個位置上面了所以很好嘛所以我最後一個結論也是跟部長說啦這個人是誰提拔上來的你一直看台鐵公司你不用看是伍聖元你派他代理那一兩個月他幹出來的就是你的交通部次長他幹出來他那個階段杜威退了就那一個幾個月的關卡他用了這個人到財務處 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
806.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
823.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我覺得好離譜耶不要忘記台鐵公司化當時三大處理原則第一個就是要處理你們的財務虧損跟危機這個東西我覺得不要開玩笑而且最離譜的是你明明知道這是一個新成立的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
824.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
851.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
對不對到目前為止你們已經公司化一年10個月沒有財務處長上網一次一次都沒有這個企圖我告訴你這是很惡劣的鄭董不是在你剛到一次都沒上網什麼叫做外面沒有人才我上網了內外徵徵不到人找代理我覺得這個邏輯是比較對的我希望趕快廣徵人才就像部長你說的好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
851.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
853.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
委員你這樣說是很正確的我是覺得應該趕快專業的人才進來好謝謝委員好謝謝 |