| IVOD_ID |
164784 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164784 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-29T10:58:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-29T11:12:23+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3d43f2f62388da51a649797e53e83f11b08d4a2736e01e2bc51656f8b51a994ac0690458ce51f1dd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:58:20 - 11:12:23 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查：
行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等20人、委員李坤城等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員羅美玲等19人、委員賴惠員等21人、委員黃捷等22人、委員陳亭妃等17人、委員邱鎮軍等21人及委員吳沛憶等16人分別擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」。
二、審查：
行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等20人、委員李坤城等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員羅美玲等19人、委員賴惠員等21人、委員黃捷等22人、委員陳亭妃等17人、委員邱鎮軍等24人及委員吳沛憶等16人分別擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」條文對照表。
三、審查：
行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等19人、委員李坤城等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、委員羅美玲等19人、委員賴惠員等21人、委員黃捷等22人、委員陳亭妃等17人、委員吳沛憶等16人分別擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」及委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「自來水法第三條、第十六條之一及第九十七條之一條文修正草案」條文對照表。
以上全案於10月29日（星期三）進行合併詢答，10月30日（星期四）處理。
【10月29日及30日二天一次會】（請參閱開會通知單及議程）） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
6.971 |
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8.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
謝謝謝謝主席 陽俊發言我們邀請部長我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
18 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
44.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
谢谢部长今天本席也提出修正动议这个目的也就是在整个能源的安全事前的防范事后的处罚这个加重希望能够在能源方面可以达到一个安全我希望得到行政部门的一个支持重点在于除了我们事后的罚则之外最重要的现在是以 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
59.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
就是故意達成傷害者那但是在整個過程當中如果行為者他達成傷害那也必須要有所處置你同不同意這樣的一個原則是是是現在就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
60.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
83.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
即便他不是故意的也有罚词是过失的好 非常的感谢终于今天本席提了三个修正动力的目的也就是这个精神所以待会我们如果在逐条审查的时候也敬请我们同仁以及行政部门来支持我们真正目的也就是需要能够真正的安全这是非常重要防堵 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
84.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
100.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那同時在電越法跟天然氣施越法以及自來水這個三法修法的當中我們就是剛剛所說的為了要加重對海底電纜輸氣與送水管線遭破壞的一個行者所以我們說如果事後追陳 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
101.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
108.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
當然他雖然有二組作用但是他缺乏了一個及時的一個監測機制一旦損傷造成了全民的斷電斷氣斷水這個連鎖危機那麼有鑒於此所以我們呢必須要建立一個什麼呢事前防護的一個體系讓能源輸配網具備有 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
125.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
147.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
預警以及快速的應變能力我們今天主要的修法的目的是不是以這樣子的一個精神為目標而執行之呢是的 我們方向是這樣那我們會跟海巡署事實上是配合搭配因為他們這個海上作業是這個巡查是他們在處理那我們一旦他們也會針對船隻上 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
150.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
165.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他要開AIS然後定位他然後看他的意圖等等一些情況那我們會把我們所有的管線的相關資料提供給海巡讓他們知道說這個地方事實上是我們很重要的一個區域是跨部會的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
167.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
185.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
合縱聯合這是非常的重要所以我也謝謝部長剛剛我們在討論當中也就是針對今天所修的這個三個法本席提出三個修正動議更明確的來說明更明確的能夠讓執行者有所依歸也就是強化與 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
188.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
193.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這個執行的這個效能來穩定能源的安全我們的目標就是以這兩個為基準是不是 是的那所以我們面對於整個海底設施的安全的威脅我們必須要設置可即使偵測異常 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
207.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
218.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
來作為預警的功能的防護系統 是不是如此是 我們 對 一旦有發生異樣的時候我們就會 資訊會回饋給我們我們馬上會跟海巡來通聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
220.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
239.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個非常的重要所以本行要說明的是說能源的安全我們不是只有事後有罰我們還要事前可防是不是如此是好那我們也希望再一次的說明到時候我們審查法案的時候那目標都一致那也希望得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
240 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
266.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
修正動議得到這三個得到行政部門以及國會同仁大家的支持接下來本席要跟你討論的是6月3號立法院通過了2028年無煤中火的這個案子那但是呢您經濟部一直說您有困難當時你不是部長因為你現在是部長所以本席要跟你討論這個問題你的理由是說中火的二期燃氣呢必須要55個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
268.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
276.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
但是事實上中國的一期它的燃氣兩部機組會在於2025跟2026年來完工裝置的容量是2600MW裝置的容量讓它足以太舊4.7部的燃煤機組那不僅如此到現在2024年中國減煤630萬公噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
292.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
310.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
2025年一起上線它可以再淘汰432.5萬公噸2026年它可以再增加民營的中央這一個燃氣的電廠跟中火燃氣一起的第二個機組它可以再減多少呢 636萬公噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
313.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
333.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
630 6萬公噸所以換句話說在2028年如果依照這樣的數字你們的規劃達成2028年中火無煤他是沒有問題的他是沒有問題的那請教部長因為你們現在一直以中火二期未完工來做藉口那民眾的聲音您聽到嗎請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
335.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
365.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
部長你先打一下吧因為總經理有跟我講因為你新任的部長啊如果真的可以達成我們當然是希望這樣但是中間這個數字是你們告訴我們的啊而且你們還告訴我們啊要找一天蒸氣你就要找一天撿煤啊找一天蒸氣找一天撿煤啊這是我們大家的共識啊對不對但是您剛才比如說您剛才提到的資料中加的部分基本上他已經不會做了就是說就解約了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
366.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
373.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以說類似這樣的情況你們從頭到尾都跟我們說這個數字到現在潘朵拉的盒子打開你說宗家解約了對 因為他是民間的不是我們台電沒有人不知道他是民間的當時你們都把他的量數都計算在內啊你怎麼會現在才跟我們說這個潘朵拉的盒子掀開是這樣不可看呢難怪我們的民眾這麼痛苦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
394.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
401.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
中部地區的民眾已經承受夠了他九月份的時候解約了九月份的時候解約那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
404.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
426.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以我們就是盡量還是會趕啊什麼叫做盡量就是委員跟我們的想法一樣盡快把這個氣起來以後煤可以降下來這是我們共同的願望但是如果有實質上的困難政府口口聲聲告訴我們不管綠能不管這個天然氣我們都全力的支持你現在告訴我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
428.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
438.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
九月份的事件我都不忍心講出來那我們中部地區該怎麼辦你一直告訴我們說要爭氣就減煤我們全力的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
440.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
457.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那你們現在告訴我你現在說你們有困難那你的困難我告訴你們你至少要告訴我們你們要怎麼樣逐年減煤請告訴我時辰請告訴我時辰 我絕對不同意只有到2034年才無煤這個我們絕對抗議到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
459.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
483.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
跟委員報告整個電力系統的要穩定供電其實要考慮到供電的發電的高度跟我們運轉電廠的時間總經理這個是你們之前要爭氣你們都說過了如果你們沒有這些KPI你怎麼去執行呢你現在告訴我這些論述本席具體要求你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
484.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
486.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你們現在告訴我們是2031年2034年這個區間你才要5枚那你們這段時間都不減煤嗎那你告訴我沒關係你告訴我你告訴我你現在有困難你要怎麼樣逐年去減煤告訴我時程告訴我數據我們同意逐年減煤然後把數據會後會 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
507.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
515.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你現在就可以告訴我啦你已經告訴我們2031年2034年我是不同意的當那個時間才無美你現在有增加這些設備本席剛剛已經告訴過你囉本席告訴過你囉你的2025、2026年完工運轉你可以增加2600MW你可以拆除了4.7部的燃煤機組耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
532.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
558.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
跟委員報告你已經失去餘名你說你的政績上路你就要給我們的煙囪這個這個這個摘除跟委員報告那你現在還要保留運轉你為什麼要這麼欺負我們中部人呢跟委員報告最近這幾天天氣比較涼我們中火本來是10部機組也其實都運轉到大概4部或5部的機組在運轉而已其實就是在照顧中部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
558.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
576.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你能不能告訴我在你一起燃氣機組2025 2026陸續上線之後我們有所本有所本你們的預估就是如此你上線之後你要告訴我們你的逐步減煤時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
577.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
599.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
跟委員報告告訴我們怎麼樣減你會不會逐步去減電力的運轉跟調度是需要彈性的當然彈性所以我本期問你你會不會逐步逐年去減我們會逐步去做盡量去做但是我們不敢承諾一個數字給你們因為只要承諾一個數字我們就一定要努力必須要做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
600.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
620.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
全國的民眾聽到中部地區的民眾聽到政府告訴我們你蒸汽要給我們減煤你現在不敢告訴我時程不敢告訴我數字因為不敢說的原因是有太多的變數包括像再生能源上來的進度怎麼樣這個都影響到我們電力運轉的所以政府一場騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
621.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
628.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
沒有騙之前告訴我們你們的能源占比有多少你的綠能有多少你現在告訴我你什麼都沒有穩定供電還是我們第一要務那我們中部機器人的健康怎麼辦呢怎麼辦呢我至少一個卑微的要求我們不同意到2031到2034年才是無煤所以我們卑微的要求你告訴我逐年 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
649.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
671.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你的減煤到底是多少這樣子的卑微的說的要求你都沒有幫我告訴我們數字台電一定會盡量去做到盡量做到但是總經理我對你是非常的尊敬因為你是非常務實但是你今天告訴我這些內容我真的是嚇一跳 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
672.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
690.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
原來之前所說的都是一場騙時間到了你這樣我只有卑微的要求你告訴我你逐年沒關係你逐年減煤的數量告訴本席可不可以總經理不是你不可以說數字我絕對不接受台電公司告訴我減煤的時程跟減煤的量數不可以坦白說數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
703.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
721.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們請我們經濟部還有我們台電我們找我們瓊益委員把這些我們可以瞭解的可以告知的這些相關的數字跟我們瓊益委員瞭解一下好不好好謝謝你多點時間可以將你的時程告訴本席你的時程跟你的減煤計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
723.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
744.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
告訴我們不是找時間報告我具體要求在經濟委員會要求行政部門台電公司請你將你們的燃氣機組上了2025 2026你可以有2600MW的增加我沒有理由不要求你要減煤 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
746.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
750.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你告訴我們正氣就要減煤我很卑微的要求行政部門請你把我的時間要求你逐年減煤的時間跟量數 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
760.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
776.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
給本席請委員給我們一點運轉的空間什麼時候告訴本席 沒關係你告訴我什麼時間你的時程跟你的減煤數量告訴本席我們下禮拜去找瓊英委員報告一下好不好不是不是 主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
776.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
787.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們質詢有要求時間的權利告訴我們內容我不敢你講不出來我沒有辦法要求你現在講但是我們還為選民負責我們替選民來問你什麼時間你告訴我們你們逐年遞減的時間跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
794.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
801.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
減煤的量數我們可以提出我們怎麼樣盡量做到的對你什麼時候可以告訴本席你給我一個時間就好你下個禮拜去找不是不是你告訴我你們去討論嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
809.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
835.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
一個月的時間我們把我們盡量怎麼做到的方式或怎樣再跟委員就教就是我們會寫出書面報告來請你們好好告訴我們民眾需要指導中部地區民眾真的辛苦了而且我們有條件也有權利要求我們付出的夠了我們希望我們也全力支持政府的政策爭氣減煤要講到做到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
837.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
837.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝趙偉的質詢謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝總經理 謝謝 |