| IVOD_ID |
164757 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164757 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-29T09:57:29+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-29T10:09:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3d43f2f62388da517953f59a74e67ddd14a9ab9b55a87a24a3c61875d63c7135c0e5c612942c44225ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱鎮軍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:57:29 - 10:09:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）
邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、農業部、經濟部、教育部、國防部就「防範非洲豬瘟疫情擴散，強化全國廚餘去化問題以及後續防疫、清消等作為」提出專題報告，並備質詢。
（下午2時起。若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）
一、繼續審查行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員廖先翔等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」、委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」、委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」、委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」、委員李昆澤等27人、委員黃秀芳等21人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員翁曉玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」、委員范雲等18人、委員劉建國等17人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」、委員沈發惠等18人、委員王育敏等19人、委員王育敏等25人擬、委員郭國文等17人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」、委員郭昱晴等17人、委員羅廷瑋等18人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
二、審查
（一）委員王正旭等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員吳沛憶等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第九條條文修草案」案。
（四）委員林月琴等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條修正草案」案。
（五）委員林淑芬等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（六）委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（七）委員徐富癸等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（八）委員黃捷等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（九）委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
（十）委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
【二、(三)至(七)案，如經復議則不予審查；二、(八)至(十)案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書不予審查】【逐條討論】
【10月29日及10月30日，二天一次會】） |
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主席好 我們請彭部長來 再請彭部長邱委員好 部長好我們先看一下影片好了因為現在廚餘沒有去處 |
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所以我們有一個要求就拜託現在大家要把食物全部吃完不要有廚餘啦如果吃完就不會有廚餘就不會有廚餘去化的問題沒有廚餘去化的問題我們就能夠不要讓豬隻吃到很多的廚餘所以我們藉這個機會也要拜託拜託大家要把食物吃完不要有廚餘 |
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這樣就不會有廚餘去化的問題我請教部長你吃香蕉的時候會把香蕉皮吃掉嗎你個人吃飯吃得再怎麼乾淨你在做飯的時候必然是會有委員這個其實減少食物的浪費齁這個是一個愛護環境的方式啦我沒有說減少食物不對啦這個浪費不對只是說他叫這個院長叫大家把這個食物都吃完喔不是很奇怪嗎你吃香蕉會不會把皮吃掉 |
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院長意思是說我們每天餐上桌上的食物要吃乾淨那就不會有多的廚餘那也跟委員報告因為我們國人的廚藝蠻多的所以這句話的意思是什麼是要我們用人民用這個未來防疫是不是 |
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絕對不是啦是因為我們我們把香蕉皮吃掉就可以把非洲豬瘟擋掉嗎不可能香蕉皮吃掉的啦委員那個香蕉皮這個不是我們可以吃的宣傳不要浪費食物我覺得這沒有問題但是不要拿來當防範非洲豬瘟的解方不是解方就是說減少這段時間內因為廚餘的確是比較多我們回歸正題啦就是說這是非洲豬瘟的問題你們研判病毒應該是境外傳入對吧 |
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我不是這個專業喔 那誰可以回答現在還沒人可以回答嗎難道是本土嗎誰可以回答 請陳部長 |
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我跟委員說明我們現在針對現在目前的案場就是在台中武器這個案場那現在正在進行疫調中那疫調完成以後我們大概就比較能夠了解這個來源到底是從哪裡來的是從境外嗎 |
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我們過往我們台灣都沒有一定是從境外所以就是說你們也間接承認這是食安五環的第一環這個邊境管理就已經失守了我們從來沒有間接承認食安五環第一環就失守你是從這個境外的話食安五環第一環不就是境外嗎境外防範的部分 |
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197.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們所有的防範作為對嘛 那就是第一環出的問題嘛 這樣講對吧我不能這樣講 因為四安五環本身它的境外邊際管制你現在就是說本土沒有嘛 那就是一定從外面來嘛那從外面來就是境外管制出問題 這樣對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
211.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
邊境管制邊境管制嘛 對不對那我們這個陳時中政委不是說知道有小偷卻不抓結果你們在邊境那一環你們把小偷放進來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
214.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
227.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對不對 不能用這樣的比喻所以是陳時中比喻不對啦我們的政委他比喻不對嘛他的比喻是另外一件事情我說您剛才講的就是說食安五環的第一環裡面邊境把關就是把如果邊境發現的時候就攔下來會有後面的問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
230.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
256.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我想你也非常清楚喔所有的邊境管制不可能百分之百但是我們會出了問題你們出了問題不能夠說大家在那邊看笑話就笑說我們台中市政府明知道有小偷不抓那我們要說那這個小偷是誰放進來的我跟你講喔整個疫調的過程是非常非常專業的一個疫調在這個情況之下我們希望在防疫的過程中我們就專注防疫 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
257.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
264.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好啦 你剛剛講說是這是從這個邊境管制這個控制沒有控制好就好了我沒有這樣講 我只是說這個東西從邊境你請回 我們請彭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
268.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
294.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
部長 你在報告裡面寫著現在用廚餘養豬的場 總共是435場嘛那近一年來養豬戶配合上船的這個情形其中只有358家上船率有90%那50家上船率60%至90%上船率小於60%的有27家所以沒有一家是達到100%上船的對吧有 有 大概150幾家是可以有到100% |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
295.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
307.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
有100%嗎有有有在我的早上的簡報裡面有有改了是不是有有有那個是90以上對呀90以上就含100就對了151家對含100就對了對對對好那我想請問一下你們這這個435家這個養豬場裡面有曾經因為沒有上傳畫面而開發的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
318.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
342.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
呃 他們基本上重點是在集合因為他如果沒有百分之百上傳 隔月就要去集合要求他們改善 就一直要他們改善對 然後啊 但是你沒有罰則啊呃 有 廢清法廢清法怎麼罰 廢清法有罰則 怎麼罰呃 一般的話是一千二到六千如果是他用事業的話是 呃 六千到三百萬那 這個沒有上傳真主畫面就等於沒有依照規定真主 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
345.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
362.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以他要加強稽查所以他下個月一定要去看要求他輔導改進對 他改進之後 他如果沒改呢你怎麼知道他有沒有改他一定要再上傳他再上傳 只要他有上傳就沒事有上傳 然後我們去集合他是不是按照照實的去上傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
363.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
391.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對 它上傳這個畫面就能證明它有珍珠嗎基本上我們那個系統裡面可以看得到它的照片拍攝的日期然後它每天的樣態所以我們有人去分析然後如果有一些異常所以我們每個月都會發函給各縣市環保局那沒有上傳它還是沒有沒有上傳它還是沒有罰則對不對沒有上傳就會增加它的稽查的頻率因為各位委員你也知道養豬場它是很害怕人家進去看的所以增強它的稽查頻率所以我們的稽查頻率是非常多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
392.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
414.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以他們後來 你現在意思是說台中市政府沒有去做稽查嗎報告委員因為那個是禮拜天的時候工作會議的時候我們同仁有特別提出來因為我們在疫調的時候可能有一些速度的地方所以我們同仁有提出來這樣的情境他的確在這個從五月開始就有顯著的這個異常然後我們有提醒他們但是他們只有去了兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
416.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
428.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
只去了兩次那我請問一下這435家養豬場就是說有那麼多沒有上傳按時間上傳的那到底罰了幾家請我們副署長說有開罰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
430.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
454.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
跟委員報告 基本上上船是讓我們來根據上船的情況來調整我們的稽查的頻率如果他不上 我覺得很奇怪的一件事情既然有罰則 為什麼為什麼那個不直接重複他沒上船就開罰呢沒上船之後我們去稽查為什麼要再多一個動作稽查發現他為什麼嘛為什麼你跟我講為什麼要再多一個動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
462.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
482.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
沒有上傳你為什麼不直接就開罰不然你同意嗎我們來立法可以嗎包委員因為這個國人齁其實對於雖然我是我不吃豬肉我吃蔬食可是豬是國人的需求養豬農他們其實也很辛苦所以基本上這套制度呢不在於要罰多少而是說它有這個集合的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
482.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
496.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
法律本來也很重啊對不對只是說我只是要講的是說他沒有上傳因為你沒有強制嘛你沒有強制的話就造成這個業者他就會忘記啊今天如果要有罰則的話他就不會忘記嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
497.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
525.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
保委員這個對於養豬業者壓力會很大所以基本上我們是希望他們一起來配合為什麼壓力會大呢其實委員九成的業者都上傳率大概九成以上每天的上傳率九成以上是沒有這個問題的對啊 那他們就不會有壓力那其他人為什麼會有壓力所以我們環境部就是等於讓你這個法律這個解釋當中有空間讓這個養豬戶他覺得說他們有空間可以去做調整那為什麼不一次把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
526.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
551.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
到位 這樣子讓我們所有執法的人也很好執法不會到現在推來推去的沒有推來推去 因為其他家 其他例如說被我們列為警示的有邀請各地方政府能夠去稽查的他們其實大多數都有按照這個方式去做稽核 也都有改善所以這個制度是沒有問題的我這樣講啦 如果說把這個沒有上傳這個部分來做一個修法你覺得同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
552.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
577.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
委員這個其實養豬其實我相信經過這個疫情都是一個非常挑戰的工作如果委員有這樣的意願的話我們也遵照大院的建議但是現在環境部的意思就是說以後這個廚餘我們可能不再沒有沒有沒有委員因為我們現在看到這樣其實這個制度或許有可以改進的地方所以我們如果未來要持續進行的話我們會用即時監控即時監控用連線的方式來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
578.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
603.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以你們還是廚餘未來還是會使用就對了沒有沒有因為這個到底要用還是不要用這個不是我這剛剛那個陳季季部長有特別說的很清楚我們會再來進行這個評估來處理你的態度呢基本上廚餘有廚餘的這個價值啦如果說我知道他們有他的價值他可以養那個黑水芒嘛對不對對對對你會大力的來提這個鼓勵這個業者來做這個嗎這個是循環經濟的表現我們會鼓勵好 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
608.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
634.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
台灣一年生產77萬噸的廚藥其中六成二拿去餵豬三成拿去做堆肥換句話說上一次討論就是要禁止廚藥養豬到現在七年過去了養豬戶依然是廚藥去化的最大戶所以我想雲林那時候七年前雲林就禁止這個廚藥養豬當時我們賴清德院長還親自反對說去化能量不足禁止太會會造成廚藥危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
635.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
664.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那我們現在看到的狀況就是你政府一進台中市政府他的台中市那麼大的這個量能他也沒辦法去處理嘛所以他也只能做掩埋對不對所以他現在也只能做掩埋你說那些場地你在臨時你要找到一個合法的場地本來就有困難啊你連不要講中央單位都有困難啊何況是地方政府對不對像這個時候我們已經搞了7年了那用燒的也燒不完啊那我想說未來我們要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
666.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
689.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
未來的話我們還是希望從這個更有效的一個利用方式來進行那至於說能不能這個廚藝作為飼料這個是未來可能可以再討論的問題對啦 因為七年了啦 去化能量不足我們也不能禁止 禁用廚藝七年後一樣去化能量不足所以我們 我這樣看是不是等這事情過了之後然後又傳過水無痕 又忘了 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
690.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
717.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
呃 剛剛那個陳部長我農業部也特別提到說他們會強化輔導的方式因為7年前我發現我發現我們現在的我們現在的耐心的政府啊因為狀況一個接一個很快這個下一個狀況又會把今天的事情蓋掉我希望這件事情能夠部長在你任內齁在最近能夠呃 統一一個說法然後一個很好的解決辦法可以嗎呃 這個我們正在努力當中我們先把這個疫情趕快能夠告一段好 謝謝部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
720.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
721.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好 謝謝邱委員 謝謝部長 |